Why are there a shortage of girls studying computing degrees?

catbat2009

With the number of girls studying computing and technology related degrees in decline I have been been thinking a lot about the topic and I genuinely feel the explanation must be down to how we are socialised into believing computing is a 'male' profession.

I can't even remember my ICT lessons at school but what I do remember is that they were ever so boring. What does everyone else think?

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Environment.

Why don't cats fly? Why don't football players look like rugby players?

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 3

WanderingWorrier

Original post by jamieTT

Why don't cats fly? Why don't football players look like rugby players?

Hilarious

Reply 4

jamieTT

Original post by WanderingWorrier

Hilarious

Reply 5

redferry

Original post by Algorithm69

There is quite persuasive research showing it has a lot to do with biology. Research by Simon Baron-Cohen found that the amount of testosterone a foetus is exposed to can have significant effects on a baby's brain. Baby boys typically develop language skills later than girls, and exhibit less eye contact. They also grow to be much more interested in mechanisms and figuring out how things work, which may explain the gender segregation in careers such as math, engineering, computing etc. It has also been found that girls and boys naturally gravitate towards different toys. Boys to "masculine" toys such as train sets and girls to "feminine" toys such as dolls. In fact, doctors use this experiment when determining how to assign the gender of babies with malformed genitalia.

I hate this sort of research it always makes me feel like such a freak for hating girls toys as a kid.

anyway, could you link me to the studies I would be interested to read them? :smile:

Reply 6

jamieTT

Original post by redferry

I hate this sort of research it always makes me feel like such a freak for hating girls toys as a kid.

anyway, could you link me to the studies I would be interested to read them? :smile:

And that's why biologists need maths. They don't understand that, while there is some chinese 7 foot woman out there, men are still a lot taller than women on average.

Reply 7

drake10

Original post by jamieTT

Why don't cats fly? Why don't football players look like rugby players?

It's a social construct. Cats would fly if they weren't oppressed by the horrible birds keeping them down. Evolution definitely has nothing to do with it!

Reply 8

redferry

Original post by jamieTT

And that's why biologists need maths. They don't understand that, while there is some chinese 7 foot woman out there, men are still a lot taller than women on average.

Yeah but I was brought up differently to most people, in a much more gender neutral environment, so it wouldn't be a fair comparison. You need a bigger sample size to prove your assertions just as I do.

Reply 9

jamieTT

Original post by redferry

There are studies from day one to one year into an infant's life that show boys and girls are very different on average. If you actually want a ''fresh perspective'' watch this doc.

Reply 10

username540512

Original post by redferry

I hate this sort of research it always makes me feel like such a freak for hating girls toys as a kid.

anyway, could you link me to the studies I would be interested to read them? :smile:

It's Simon Baron-Cohen. He's pretty well known in the psychology field. He also proposed that autism is a form of 'hyper-masculinism'. Just have a search on your universities online library, should find plenty of texts.

Reply 11

redferry

Original post by jamieTT

There are studies from day one to one year into an infant's life that show boys and girls are very different on average. If you actually want a ''fresh perspective'' watch this doc.

Provide the studies please :smile:

as In the actual studies so that I can read them, see the sample sizes, the papers they were published in and the analysis methods. No chance of bias that way.

There are plenty of other studies that conflict with those, personally I think there is not enough conclusive evidence to decide either way because it is so complex - as illustrated in this article:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/girl-brain-boy-brain/

Reply 12

redferry

Original post by Aisha~~

I know, he is also the cousin to Sacha Baron Cohen. Fun fact. I just wanted the paper to read for myself rather than having to go search for it given he is such a prolific author.

Reply 13

username540512

Original post by redferry

I know, he is also the cousin to Sacha Baron Cohen. Fun fact. I just wanted the paper to read for myself rather than having to go search for it given he is such a prolific author.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Essential-Difference-Penguin-Press-Science/dp/0141011017

Reply 14

redferry

Original post by Aisha~~

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Essential-Difference-Penguin-Press-Science/dp/0141011017

That isn't a peer reviewed paper :s-smilie:

I just want the paper, with the actual data analysis in it. You know, so I can read it critically?

Reply 15

username540512

Original post by redferry

That isn't a peer reviewed paper :s-smilie:

I just want the paper, with the actual data analysis in it. You know, so I can read it critically?

Then go trawling. You can't expect people to hand you ammunition to shoot down their arguments.

Reply 16

redferry

Original post by Aisha~~

Then go trawling. You can't expect people to hand you ammunition to shoot down their arguments.

Yes I can, when I am arguing a point I ALWAYS provide sources :s-smilie:

at the moment no-one is giving me the papers that they are talking about...

Reply 17

ClickItBack

Original post by redferry

Yes I can, when I am arguing a point I ALWAYS provide sources :s-smilie:

at the moment no-one is giving me the papers that they are talking about...

Some of these people are clowns and haven't actually read the paper themselves. I have.

Link: http://www.math.kth.se/matstat/gru/5b1501/F/sex.pdf

Reply 18

redferry

Original post by Algorithm69

You can find Many of Baron-Cohen's studies here:

http://www.autismresearchcentre.com/project_15_foetaltst

Thanks - I actually read the empathy stuff for A level Psychology I think.

I think it's a very complex topic. Obviously there are some intrinsic differences bu people grossly overstate the weight of evidence in a lot of cases.

The link between fetal testosterone and empathy is something that is pretty widely accepted as it is repeatable evidence, which is different to a lot of other studies. I also take issue with primate studies - especially on rhesus and macaques, as really they bare little relations to humans. Replicate the findings on Chimps and bonobo's and maybe I'll be able to take it seriously. Among zoologists primate studies are held in pretty low regard as primatologists like to **** all over others work and overstate their conclusions. They were especially pissed off when a lecturer of mine proved that ants can teach, and changed the definition of 'teaching' accordingly. Funny thing was he then went ahead and proved ants could teach according to the new definition as well :P

As for many of the brain scan studies all the ones I have read a) show differences later in life and b) show them increasing with age. Which backs up my belief that it is a combination of biological differences and socialisation.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 19

ClickItBack

Original post by redferry

Yes I can, when I am arguing a point I ALWAYS provide sources :s-smilie:

at the moment no-one is giving me the papers that they are talking about...

Also, you definitely shouldn't feel 'freaky' for liking boy toys or whatever as a kid. I definitely don't agree with people being ostracised for not conforming to very strict gender roles. I do agree with the proposition that there are likely to be average differences in male/female interests.

It's no more freaky than if you were taller than the average guy.