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why do people drive big 4x4 SUVs in the city?

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Reply 20
Avatar for redferry
redferry
19
Original post by james1211
And that's great - but it doesn't bear relevance to my point. Having a go at all 4x4 drivers because it isn't enviromentally consious is nuts. Lots may be doing other more impacting changes to their lifestyle that you cannot possibly provide statistics for and owning a 4x4 is one of the lesser impacts that we have a society.

You mention sustainability - there is no reason why a 4x4 would be less sustainable than a hatchback. How old is your car? There was a great story from Seasick Steve on Top Gear, he reckons his 50 year old pickup truck is more sustainable than any modern car that's been replaced once a decade because there's far less waste.


Yeah but I dislike 4x4s for other reasons as well so may as well add their high emissions to the list too.

I had a lovely little ford ka but it got written off (in a crash not through any fault of it's own) so at the moment I am driving my godmothers Mercedes A class until she gets her licence back. didn't really get a choice on that one though as I couldn't afford another car. I wont have that from September though, and If I do get another car eventually it will be the most sustainable one I can get for my money.
Reply 21
Avatar for 455409
455409
17
Original post by redferry
Yeah but I dislike 4x4s for other reasons as well so may as well add their high emissions to the list too.

I had a lovely little ford ka but it got written off (in a crash not through any fault of it's own) so at the moment I am driving my godmothers Mercedes A class until she gets her licence back. didn't really get a choice on that one though as I couldn't afford another car. I wont have that from September though, and If I do get another car eventually it will be the most sustainable one I can get for my money.

Your other point was not giving a crap about other drivers, what did you mean by that?
They feel the need to prove something, most are working class aspiring to be middle class wannabes. Some will even pay more for their beloved 4x4 than the council house they live in.

4x4's are so passé and are now seen in the same way as the ubiquitous Volvo estate cars of the 1980's.

Jokes about the excuses used to justify why these people need to own one, has become a familiar passtime at the RAC clubhouse in Pall Mall.
Reply 23
Avatar for redferry
redferry
19
Original post by james1211
Your other point was not giving a crap about other drivers, what did you mean by that?


If you hit another car in a 4x4 you are going to absolutely decimate them. As a ka driver I was well aware If I got hit by a 4x4 I would die. Same goes for pedestrians - those with kangaroo bars are especially lethal.

I read an interesting piece about how this is why in the US people drive huge cars - to protect themselves because they don't trust the community around them.
Reply 24
Avatar for 455409
455409
17
Original post by redferry
If you hit another car in a 4x4 you are going to absolutely decimate them. As a ka driver I was well aware If I got hit by a 4x4 I would die. Same goes for pedestrians - those with kangaroo bars are especially lethal.

I read an interesting piece about how this is why in the US people drive huge cars - to protect themselves because they don't trust the community around them.

I agree that the other car would be utterely destroyed but they can't really be held accountable for wanting to protect themselves. It comes more down to if they're a good driver or not - my parents own a 4x4 as they need the 7 seats and carrying capacity that it offers, but it doesn't mean they're bad or inconsiderate people because others choose to drive smaller cars (you can't change physics that's just life). We also happen to own a small car but we chose one with Euro NCAP top rating because of it.
Reply 25
Avatar for redferry
redferry
19
Original post by james1211
I agree that the other car would be utterely destroyed but they can't really be held accountable for wanting to protect themselves. It comes more down to if they're a good driver or not - my parents own a 4x4 as they need the 7 seats and carrying capacity that it offers, but it doesn't mean they're bad or inconsiderate people because others choose to drive smaller cars (you can't change physics that's just life). We also happen to own a small car but we chose one with Euro NCAP top rating because of it.


It just seems VERY selfish to me and is a big part of the reason I would never buy one. I guess having to drive through the Harrogate school run with all the mums in their 4x4s has made me a very bitter person. That and driving a ford ka and have numerous 4x4 drivers try to kill me by driving dangerously - including one causing me to have the crash that wrote my car off. So for me they just have terrible connotations!

My mum has a fiat van type thingy for similar reasons your parents have a 4x4 - there are alternatives that don't screw over other people in the same way.
Reply 26
Avatar for Reue
Reue
20
I hate those huge 4x4s, usually so wide and driven so badly that they hang over the lane lines. Make it impossible for motorcycles to get past.

I work right in the town centre and the number of people who commute in these beasts its insane. My only happy thought on them is knowing its costing their owners a tonne in petrol + duty, plus probably some hefty credit repayment charges.
Reply 27
Avatar for 455409
455409
17
Original post by Reue
I hate those huge 4x4s, usually so wide and driven so badly that they hang over the lane lines. Make it impossible for motorcycles to get past.

I work right in the town centre and the number of people who commute in these beasts its insane. My only happy thought on them is knowing its costing their owners a tonne in petrol + duty, plus probably some hefty credit repayment charges.

Actually a lot of these large SUV's (can we stop using 4x4, this: http://www.staticwhich.co.uk/media/images/cars/medium/suzuki-swift-4x4-300x200-336259.jpg is a 4x4 too!) have better fuel consumption figures than some smaller cars. The Audi Q3 does 50mpg, and the tax through company car leases is pretty good at the emmissions level of this car too (149g/km, the Ford KA is 119g/km so not much less).

Original post by redferry
x
Reply 28
Avatar for redferry
redferry
19
Original post by james1211
Actually a lot of these large SUV's (can we stop using 4x4, this: http://www.staticwhich.co.uk/media/images/cars/medium/suzuki-swift-4x4-300x200-336259.jpg is a 4x4 too!) have better fuel consumption figures than some smaller cars. The Audi Q3 does 50mpg, and the tax through company car leases is pretty good at the emmissions level of this car too (149g/km, the Ford KA is 119g/km so not much less).


Most people aren't driving the really fuel efficient one's though lets be honest. They are getting those giant range-rovers with blacked out windows etc.
Reply 29
Avatar for Reue
Reue
20
Original post by james1211
Actually a lot of these large SUV's (can we stop using 4x4, this: http://www.staticwhich.co.uk/media/images/cars/medium/suzuki-swift-4x4-300x200-336259.jpg is a 4x4 too!) have better fuel consumption figures than some smaller cars. The Audi Q3 does 50mpg, and the tax through company car leases is pretty good at the emmissions level of this car too (149g/km, the Ford KA is 119g/km so not much less).


In which case I reserve my anger purely for the fact they are particularly dangerous to other road users :smile:
Reply 30
Avatar for 455409
455409
17
Original post by redferry
Most people aren't driving the really fuel efficient one's though lets be honest. They are getting those giant range-rovers with blacked out windows etc.


I don't know where you live but the vast, vast majority of personal cars I see in this city are hatchbacks. I'd say less than a tenth of cars i see are the type of car you're describing. This is just starting to sound like jealousy to me.

Original post by Reue
In which case I reserve my anger purely for the fact they are particularly dangerous to other road users :smile:


Fair play. Dangerous they may be but it doesn't mean it's immoral or wrong to own one because of that. A bad driver (and most people in this country are) in a hatchback is far more dangerous than a good driver in a 2 tonne range rover.
Reply 31
Avatar for Reue
Reue
20
Original post by james1211
A bad driver (and most people in this country are) in a hatchback is far more dangerous than a good driver in a 2 tonne range rover.


Agreed, although I can usually get past a hatchback in traffic :biggrin:
Reply 32
Avatar for Ripper-Roo
Ripper-Roo
Because they're nice? :iiam:
Reply 33
Avatar for redferry
redferry
19
Original post by james1211
I don't know where you live but the vast, vast majority of personal cars I see in this city are hatchbacks. I'd say less than a tenth of cars i see are the type of car you're describing. This is just starting to sound like jealousy to me.


I meant out of the people that drive 4x4s the majority are big range rover types not fuel efficient ones.

also there is definitely more than 10% of those type cars around Harrogate (where I work) - I imagine because it is pretty middle class. All the mums on the school run have them around here.

why would I be jealous, I hate cars :s-smilie:
Reply 34
Avatar for 455409
455409
17
Original post by Reue
Agreed, although I can usually get past a hatchback in traffic :biggrin:

You motorcylists are a danger to yourselves! Filtering is inherently dangerous and it's impossible for drivers to see their blind spot at all times. Some (by far not all) of you filter way too fast to react to turning traffic.

One of my best mates is a motorcylist, with the near accidents combined with his crash last month i don't think i'll be taking it up any time soon. He seems to think filtering is his god given right and that he shouldn't bear some responsibility for the fact he may be knocked off. You filter, you takes the risk on!

A murderer should not stab you and it's his fault if he did not yours, but you wouldn't run circles round him shouting come at me!
Reply 35
Avatar for 455409
455409
17
Original post by redferry
I meant out of the people that drive 4x4s the majority are big range rover types not fuel efficient ones.

also there is definitely more than 10% of those type cars around Harrogate (where I work) - I imagine because it is pretty middle class. All the mums on the school run have them around here.

why would I be jealous, I hate cars :s-smilie:

See i did not agree with you until you just mentioned you're in Harrogate. I fully feel sympathy for you, that place has the highest per capita Range Rover ownership in the western world, it's a surprise anyone gets to work.

The rest of us for the most part don't have near that saturation of suvs.
Reply 36
Avatar for Reue
Reue
20
Original post by james1211
You motorcylists are a danger to yourselves!


Latest research i've heard is that its safer for a motorcyclist to filter to the front of a queue of traffic instead of sitting in it. If theres a shunt anywhere along the queue, the bike is going to get crushed. Better to hit someone changing lane or a door opening than getting crushed between 2 cars while in the queue.
Reply 37
Avatar for redferry
redferry
19
Original post by james1211
See i did not agree with you until you just mentioned you're in Harrogate. I fully feel sympathy for you, that place has the highest per capita Range Rover ownership in the western world, it's a surprise anyone gets to work.

The rest of us for the most part don't have near that saturation of suvs.


I get the train these days. I was driving home from harrogate when a Range rover caused me to crash as well :frown:

It's the worst. Seriously. None of them have any idea about the size of their cars, I was forced off the road twice before my accident on my way to work.

Drive me nuts.
Reply 38
Avatar for 455409
455409
17
Original post by Reue
Latest research i've heard is that its safer for a motorcyclist to filter to the front of a queue of traffic instead of sitting in it. If theres a shunt anywhere along the queue, the bike is going to get crushed. Better to hit someone changing lane or a door opening than getting crushed between 2 cars while in the queue.

Again that is a product of being on a motorcycle. It's just inherently dangerous by very virtue of the way they are. It's a shame because they're wonderful machines.

I only ever use them off road for that reason. I'm a bicyclist too so i'm a massive hypocrite!
Reply 39
Avatar for LukeM90
LukeM90
17
I like 4x4s but more for the size/space "comfort" etc

but I mean I could always just have an estate

but something about 4x4 always appealed to me, only driven a few non of which were mine but they always felt alot more powerful and amongst other things easier to handle on steep roads, back roads and unsurfaced roads (no tarmac/gravel etc) (I use to live in a very rural area)

as for capacity I think something like those large corolla verso would be better if number of seats is what you need, been in 2 with like 6 other people, very roomy

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