Liverpool Medicine (A100) Applicants 2014

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As above, anatomy and physiology is already taught at Liverpool.

The changes involve an increase in the proportion of anatomy and physiology teaching as well as more access and better tutorship in HARC (where there are prosection specimens). This was initially trialled 3 years ago when I was in 2nd year and I must say, it was actually well worth it.

I am now trying to decide between two offers - Liverpool and Brighton. How anatomy is taught is proving the problem - I really liked Liverpool - the course, the med school, the rest of the uni etc and its much closer to home for me (2 hrs as opposed to 5 hrs) BUT Brighton offer cadaveric dissection - which I think I might learn from really well.

Can any present students give me an insights into how well the materials in the HARC & prosections help you get a grasp on anatomy and differences between different people?

Thank you in advance

Reply 1621

Kyalimers

Original post by blinky96

In my honest opinion, universities advertising full cadaveric dissection do so as a gimmick (those that offer it without advertising it are the ones that do it correctly - from various colleagues at different universities). It is barely more useful than prosection over the long-run and probably less useful in the short-term as medical students.

As with most things, there is no easy way to learn anatomy. One must build foundations: first you read about the basic, general anatomy of a region before orientating yourself on a human body (easily done by using surface markings). Then you learn about the more detailed anatomy where site-specific models and prosections are incredibly useful. It is more practical and easier to focus in on than dissection.

HARC always had potential but only recently has it become more useful (past my time unfortunately). It is still being improved and there is now formal teaching for HARC as opposed to self-learning. You can have, for example, one kidney between two or three students as well as using the anatomy models, computer animations and books. There is more contact than you would have with dissection (although dissection has its own advantages which I won't go into).

As for person-to-person variation; you will get to see this in prosection just as well because the cadaveric organs in HARC come from different people and all show different pathologies or variations in normal anatomical morphology. Furthermore, until later years of medical school onwards, you really don't need to know about all the different variations (learning the normal is hard enough as it is). It's virtually pointless knowing that 15% of people don't have a palmaris longus muscle if you don't even know where it is.

In essence, nobody can answer the question for you. Each has its own advantages and disadvantages. If you put the effort in, both will yield comparable results.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 1622

Mangodepo11

Original post by Kyalimers

What did this trail consist of? Like how were you taught these subjects during the trail?

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Reply 1623

Kyalimers

Original post by Richyp22

What did this trail consist of? Like how were you taught these subjects during the trail?

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The trial was a system whereby students signed up on a first-come first-served basis for HARC teaching.

There were 3 sessions, 30 students per session and sessions changed (in terms of topic) every fortnight.

There would be a set topic for that fortnight which was usually relevant to PBL and we would get 2 hours of teaching from academic junior doctors and anatomy experts. Style of teaching varied depending upon the supervisor you got but generally it involved supervised time with prosections and teaching of core anatomy (clinical as well).

The exact logistics of this may well have changed and they may have employed more dedicated supervisors. I also understand that the faculty are making these sessions compulsory and available for the whole year group instead of just a few.

Reply 1624

blinky96

Original post by Kyalimers

In my honest opinion............ If you put the effort in, both will yield comparable results.

Thank you Kyalimers. That is really helpful -you have given me some useful stuff to think about - going to have a to make a decision soon!

Reply 1625

Izzaaaa

I have an offer from SGUL, QUB and Liverpool. I have decided not to firm SGUL but i am still confused between Liverpool and QUB. Any suggestions would be welcome. :smile:

Reply 1626

TheYorkist

Original post by Kaylain

The curriculum is changing majorly for years 1 and 3 next year so no one will be able to really give you an idea as no one will have gone through it yet. Don't buy anything until you get here though they will brief you on which textbooks they recommend when you get here.

Thanks for the advice :smile:

. I already have some of the books on the Year 1 reading list in the OP on Anatomy and Physiology handed down to me. But as for the PP, PPD and IGS; as Kyalimers suggested in the OP, I'll be getting the up-to-date editions when I begin my studies.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 1627

Kyalimers

Original post by Izzaaaa

I have an offer from SGUL, QUB and Liverpool. I have decided not to firm SGUL but i am still confused between Liverpool and QUB. Any suggestions would be welcome. :smile:

Well what is important for you? Make a list of positives for each and rank them.

Any questions, feel free to ask.

Reply 1628

leema24

After getting an offer from liverpool do we get a pack in the post with the necessary documents that we're meant to fill (eg health checks)? Cos I got one from birmingham but i dont know whether to expect the same from liverppol. Also, any international students out there get an offer stating that they need to do TOEFL or IELTS? Cos I did English as a first language for IGCSE (it is my first language) and I'm currently doing it for IB, but i dont know why i'm asked to send the TOEFL scores as well as my IB. Or maybe i just read the letter wrong? :/

Reply 1629

Elliottmanwaring

Hey guys, I am currently only 15 but I have wanted to be a doctor since I was around 5. I was born with a rare urological condition which threatened my life for around two years and I missed much of my primary education because of it. However, the surgeon Mr Peter Cuckow, saved my life and has inspired me to follow in his footsteps to save peoples lives.
I am not the brightest button in the box when it comes to medical students so I am just going to try my hardest to get one of those 'golden ticket' places in university.
I was just wondering if anyone could tell me what my chances are of getting in? I am predicted:
6A* 5As
at 14 I started volunteering so simple multiplication I have worked out that by the time I get to apply because I volunteer at two old peoples homes I should have around 1,248 hours documented of time spent volunteering
i will be getting work experience at Great Ormand Street hospital with the surgeon I know personally for a week so I guess that will look great? Being how famous GOSH is!
Anyone have any ideas as to my chances with those gcse's I am hoping to apply to st. George's, Cardiff, Southampton and one of the four, Manchester/Birmingham/Liverpool/Nottingham.

Reply 1630

aishaahmed96

Original post by Elliottmanwaring

Hey
Ur gcses are very good if u get them then u will be in a very good position to apply to Manchester and Liverpool but I believe Birmingham want 7 or 8 A* and I'm not sure about Southampton
But Lancaster and Bristol would also be good options for u becoz they have a points based system for gcse and therefore u would get the full points if u were to apply with those grades
Ur work experience sounds great jus make sure u do other extra curricular activities
But what's even more important is doing really well in ur ukcat becoz that will ultimately decide where u are able to apply and where u can't so I wouldn't be so set on wat unis to apply to now keep ur options open and apply to ur strengths not to which eva UNi U prefer more
Dnt worry u have plenty of time till u have to make a decision just keep working hard and good luck :smile:

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Reply 1631

Elliottmanwaring

Original post by aishaahmed96

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Thank you very much you have created much more insensible for me to work harder, are you currently a medical student?

Reply 1632

aishaahmed96

Original post by Elliottmanwaring

Thank you very much you have created much more insensible for me to work harder, are you currently a medical student?

No im not a medical student but I have firmed an offer from Liverpool so provided I get the grades ill be going to Liverpool in September wohoo :smile:

And your welcome pm me anytime if u have any questions or want any more advice ill be happy to help :smile:

tc

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Reply 1633

SinghShady

Original post by Elliottmanwaring

Thank you very much you have created much more insensible for me to work harder, are you currently a medical student?

Hey, just to clarify, Birmingham no longer need you to have 7/8 A* but instead give preference to those who have A* in the Sciences, English and Maths

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Reply 1634

Elliottmanwaring

Original post by SinghShady

Hey, just to clarify, Birmingham no longer need you to have 7/8 A* but instead give preference to those who have A* in the Sciences, English and Maths

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Thank you

Reply 1635

aishaahmed96

Original post by SinghShady

Hey, just to clarify, Birmingham no longer need you to have 7/8 A* but instead give preference to those who have A* in the Sciences, English and Maths

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Oops my bad thanks for clearing that up :smile:

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Reply 1636

Rooroo96

I just read the new curriculum review and I was wondering if anyone else was anyone concerned that we might be guinea pigs in this ambitious new plan? It's also quite worrying with the bad anatomy rep and the number of students who used to complain about pbl

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Reply 1637

Student 1

Original post by Rooroo96

I spoke to a medical student when I went too ok at the accommodation, and he said he thinks we'll be getting around 20 hours of lectures a week (1st year) which will be better than what he had to do for PBL (more self-taught). I think it'll be nice going into a new course, I suppose there may be some small problems but they've run some trials and presumably planned a lot out so I wouldn't be too worried :smile:

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Reply 1638

Kyalimers

Original post by Rooroo96

And yet you applied to Liverpool so frankly if you're having these worries now, there's a problem in your application approach.

Frankly, it annoys me when people bring up Liverpool's bad anatomy and physiology rep. If anything, the problem was not with the system but with the users of the system. You can't have a self-taught system which is amazing if students don't self-teach themselves the basics; and it was quite sadly true that most, but not all, students preferred not to.

The issues with PBl have since been resolved over the last few years. There are a few small outstanding issues which need addressing in my opinion but the new curriculum looks a hell of a lot better than it did previously. In that sense, why would't you want to be a so called guinea pig?

Furthermore, I answered a similar question before via PM and will post my reply below:

Kyalimers

Q: Ok sure, many thanks, just a few questions really:- would the 2014/5 batch be sort of guinea pigs for the new course?

A: Yes and no. The course has been created with the input of several clinicians and many many current students. We have been the guinea pigs, if anything. But what you will inevitably find during medical school anywhere is that at some point, things will change. People don't like change and thus think they're being made guinea pigs, or so they believe.

Reply 1639

Rooroo96

Original post by Kyalimers

Pahahahhaha you don't know anything about my application approach, it was just a few concerns....

there are positives and negatives about every medical school last time I checked and when I applied, self teaching anatomy and physiology were the main negatives of Liverpool that I found, but I told myself I'd overcome that myself because I'm hard working, just wanted some more light shed on that matter.

My main worry was really the curriculum, at first I thought great, they're listening to their student needs, exactly what I want, but just had some doubts. I love the city and would love to study there so don't get me wrong, I not like hating on the med school here. It would be much more amicable if you could structure your replies in a nicer way as well, and getting annoyed by tsr posts is the last thing anyone should go through.

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(edited 10 years ago)