Is Scottish independence a &#x27;good or bad&#x27; thing?

Original post by Good bloke

Which obviously means the Scottish system of repayment (which was news to me) won't have hit your bank account yet. You did read the article linked to, didn't you?

Yup, I read it. What it fails to acknowledge firstly is the people who don't take a loan, such as myself. How much will they have to pay back?

Secondly, even those who do take the full loan will pay back less than the rUK students if they have a monumentally crap career.

Reply 8842

Original post by flugelr

Please enlighten us as to why it is incorrect then. I'd also love to know why you apparently are not concerned that Scottish students from poor backgrounds are shafted by the system put in place by the Scottish Government.

Less people from poor backgrounds go to University mainly down to the fact that those from poorer backgrounds are less likely to get the grades to go to University.
This needs addressing, no doubt!

So if you were living in England, you wouldn't have gone to university?

Nope.

They've criticised the Scottish Government on numerous occasions for not providing enough support for poorer students.

NUS Scotland back free education!

[h="3"]Campaigning together with students and students’ associations across the country we have had some massive wins in recent years which have made a real difference to students throughout Scotland.[/h]

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87% of MSPs in the current Scottish Parliament have made a commitment to keep tuition fees out of Scotland, protect places at colleges and universities and to improve student support

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Following this the Scottish Government also committed to keeping higher education tuition-free for Scottish students and invest an extra £135 million in our universities

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The Scottish Government has also announced a new package of student support for higher education students which is the best in the UK – up to £7,250 in loans and grants for the poorest students, and all students will be eligible for a loan of £4,500

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Changes to the support available for part-time HE students - students with an income of less than £25,000 a year will pay no fees to study

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We lobbied for and won an increase of over £11 million in college bursary funding in 2011 and campaigned successfully for this funding to be maintained in 2012

Reply 8843

Original post by Boab

I've read it. Read the same arguments before.

Plenty of people doing my course (including myself) who wouldn't be there if it wasn't free, so I'll settle for the reality of the situation rather than a biased argument!

I wonder what NUS Scotland think on tuition fees?

If I had been asked to pay my tuition fees up front I wouldn't have afforded it either. However, I got it all covered in government loans and won't have to pay it back for years if at all. That's what the majority do and it keeps the education affordable.

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Reply 8844

Original post by Midlander

If I had been asked to pay my tuition fees up front I wouldn't have afforded it either. However, I got it all covered in government loans and won't have to pay it back for years if at all. That's what the majority do and it keeps the education affordable.

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Or even better, don't have to pay it at all. :rolleyes:

Reply 8845

flugelr

Original post by Boab

Less people from poor backgrounds go to University mainly down to the fact that those from poorer backgrounds are less likely to get the grades to go to University.
This needs addressing, no doubt!

So poor Scottish students are either stupider than their rUK counterparts, or they are failed by the Scottish education system.

Original post by Boab

Nope.

Then you are an idiot.

Reply 8846

Also, that extra £27k I would need to pay looks like its going to rise!

The Universities minister has refused to rule out increases, and a rise to £16k a year or £48k all in looking fairly likely!

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/mar/23/tuition-fees-catastrophe-lib-dems-labour

Reply 8847

Original post by flugelr

So poor Scottish students are either stupider than their rUK counterparts, or they are failed by the Scottish education system.

Then you are an idiot.

Bravo sir! :rolleyes:

Reply 8848

flugelr

Original post by Boab

Bravo sir! :rolleyes:

You claim to be a university student, yet you are unable to understand the student loans system.

In anyone's book that is pathetic.

Reply 8849

arfah

17

Original post by CartoonHeart

Sorry for poor phrasing of the question, but I'm about to start an essay on Scottish Independence and I'm having the "blank paper" problem. I'm writing the essay in terms of fiscal policy but I am not sure what my opinion is. So that's why I want to know, what do the general public (or at least a load of intellectual, opinionated students) think about this? Even if anybody doesn't have anything to offer for my essay - in terms of fiscal policy - it may be quite an interesting debate. So all opinions regardless of the relevency to my work would be interesting. Thankyou :smile:

- (Nothing rude please, there's no need for it).

If you vote labour at elections it's a bad thing, as most labour MP's are from Scotland. on the other hand if you are conservative, it's a good thing since there is only 1 conservative MP in Scotland, so not much loss.

Reply 8850

What a fine contribution, really, thank you.

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Reply 8851

Original post by arfah

If you vote labour at elections it's a bad thing, as most labour MP's are from Scotland. on the other hand if you are conservative, it's a good thing since there is only 1 conservative MP in Scotland, so not much loss.

Absolute nonsense.

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Reply 8852

arfah

17

Original post by Midlander

Absolute nonsense.

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Care to state why it's nonsense? :s-smilie:

Reply 8853

Original post by Boab

Or even better, don't have to pay it at all. :rolleyes:

My point is that you aren't obliged to pay up front so this idea of not affording it just isn't true. University is expensive for many things but tuition isn't one of them. Accommodation a pretty substantial one with St Andrews charging £6k for standard catered halls, as an example.

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Reply 8854

Original post by flugelr

You claim to be a university student, yet you are unable to understand the student loans system.

In anyone's book that is pathetic.

I do understand it. I do not wish to take on £27k of debt thank you!

Reply 8855

Original post by arfah

Care to state why it's nonsense? :s-smilie:

Scotland sends 59 MPs out of a possible 650, England and Wales send a combined 573. Labour therefore doesn't need Scotland to get in and very rarely has the Scottish vote made a difference to the overall result. Northern Ireland elect from their own and the other Irish parties so this increases the influence of the English vote further.

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Reply 8856

Original post by Midlander

My point is that you aren't obliged to pay up front so this idea of not affording it just isn't true. University is expensive for many things but tuition isn't one of them. Accommodation a pretty substantial one with St Andrews charging £6k for standard catered halls, as an example.

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£6k for catered halls seems quite modest lol

and I never made the argument that it was unaffordable.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 8857

flugelr

Original post by Boab

I do understand it. I do not wish to take on £27k of debt thank you!

As a Scottish student you are going to end up paying more money back than an English student. The English student gets a better maintenance loan than you do yet you, as a Scot, will still pay more money back on average.

Plus, the English student only starts paying back when they get £21k+, and even then they pay an amount proportional to their income. As a Scot you'll be paying back a flat rate as soon as you hit £15k.

Reply 8858

Original post by flugelr

As a Scottish student you are going to end up paying more money back than an English student. The English student gets a better maintenance loan than you do yet you, as a Scot, will still pay more money back on average.

Plus, the English student only starts paying back when they get £21k+, and even then they pay an amount proportional to their income. As a Scot you'll be paying back a flat rate as soon as you hit £15k.

Simply not true, even going by the argument you posted. English students pay back more as soon as they pass the career threshold of £28k average, which is A LOT of graduates!

Yes the English student does get a better maintenance loan than me, because if you had realised what I had stated already, I don't take one.

Therefore I have NO student debt. Thank you Mr Salmond.

Reply 8859