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Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing?

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Original post by flugelr
Blimey all the time. I think Surgeon said it when she was against Lamont in the STV debate.


sturgeon says a lot of things in debates to suit her argument but rarely backs them up with fact.

However, you've made some very good points above.

It does seem that the SNP are trying to pump out tried and failed policies. Immigration is one of them. When you look at the SNPs literature poster boy Alisdair Gray calling anybody non Scottish involved in the arts a colonist, you get to see what we may be in for.

What I can't get my head around is how the SNP seem to think immigration would be good for Scotland yet how they can do anything differently they already can't do now to increase it.

but you're right. We haven't seen the influx of immigration in Scotland than other parts of the UK has and therefore its easy to criticise concerns that people have with it.
Original post by Boab
Why?


Mass immigration has gone on there for a good 50 years now and the British Asian community is pretty much fully integrated. Before that Scots, Welsh and Irish were the immigrant workers and that's how the Brummy accent came about.


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Original post by Midlander
Um, yes. And 'Your ancestors killed ours 600 years ago' is the justification. The union was formed because Scotland bankrupted itself trying to create its own empire and needed England to shore up its economy and give it greater political influence.

Scotland needs the union more than the union needs it-fact.


Eh, I think you will find that it is the other way round. Westminster needs Scotland, more than Scotland needs Westminster - fact.
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Boab
Original post by Midlander
Mass immigration has gone on there for a good 50 years now and the British Asian community is pretty much fully integrated. Before that Scots, Welsh and Irish were the immigrant workers and that's how the Brummy accent came about.Posted from TSR Mobile


So you are claiming then that in the West Midlands there isn't intolerance about immigration?
Original post by Midlander
On a different thread I asked someone whether they'd rather the £200m currently spent on maintaining the Royals would be better off spent on the NHS. They never did get round to answering it...


I am in favour of an elected head of state. It is just something the SNP support - maintaining the union of crowns, which funnily enough happened before the act of union of 1707. I am astonished (sound like Johann Lamont) how Scotland has stayed in a union with London this long. The Monarchy should not be kept in an independent Scotland. I would like to see the Monarchy gone.
Original post by Boab
So you are claiming then that in the West Midlands there isn't intolerance about immigration?


I'm not saying there's none, but the SNP claiming that Scots are by default more tolerant may wish to pay a visit.


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Original post by Choo.choo
I am in favour of an elected head of state. It is just something the SNP support - maintaining the union of crowns, which funnily enough happened before the act of union of 1707. I am astonished (sound like Johann Lamont) how Scotland has stayed in a union with London this long. The Monarchy should not be kept in an independent Scotland. I would like to see the Monarchy gone.


If the Yes campaign made removal of the monarchy one of their guarantees I would be tempted-I dislike it that much.


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Original post by Choo.choo
Eh, I think you will find that it is the other way round. Westminster needs Scotland, more than Scotland needs Westminster - fact.


Proof?


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Original post by MatureStudent36
sturgeon says a lot of things in debates to suit her argument but rarely backs them up with fact.

It does seem that the SNP are trying to pump out tried and failed policies. Immigration is one of them. When you look at the SNPs literature poster boy Alisdair Gray calling anybody non Scottish involved in the arts a colonist, you get to see what we may be in for.


Ok then. Back that up with fact.
Original post by Midlander


What about tax receipts we send to them? What would Westminster do without those?
Why is it Westminster want to privatise public services like the NHS, whereas in Scotland, we want to keep the NHS in public hands? Still not convinced Scotland and England pull in different directions? 90% of Scottish MPs voted against the bedroom tax, but we got it. Westminster politicians voted to privatise the Royal Mail, Scottish MPs voted to keep it in public hands.
You clearly should stop posting on here until you understand the differences between Scotland and England.
If you disagree that Scotland was forced into the union, watch "the Break up of Britain" documentary on Youtube. But I suspect you will tell us it is biased too.
Original post by Boab
Ok then. Back that up with fact.


http://m.scotsman.com/lifestyle/books/alasdair-gray-attacks-english-for-colonising-arts-1-2694368
Reply 9391
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Boab
Original post by MatureStudent36


Which shows he is the SNPs literature poster boy, how?

Just another in the long line of nonsense comments from MS36.
Original post by Choo.choo
What about tax receipts we send to them? What would Westminster do without those?
Why is it Westminster want to privatise public services like the NHS, whereas in Scotland, we want to keep the NHS in public hands? Still not convinced Scotland and England pull in different directions? 90% of Scottish MPs voted against the bedroom tax, but we got it. Westminster politicians voted to privatise the Royal Mail, Scottish MPs voted to keep it in public hands.
You clearly should stop posting on here until you understand the differences between Scotland and England.
If you disagree that Scotland was forced into the union, watch "the Break up of Britain" documentary on Youtube. But I suspect you will tell us it is biased too.


Scotland receives more in public spending than it contributes in tax receipts and its deficit is larger per head than England's-I have posted sources demonstrating this. Scottish oil revenue fell by billions this year whereas the UK economy continues to go from strength to strength.

Scotland entered the union after its own attempt at colonialism failed, and once the British Empire gathered pace Scotland benefitted enormously. So don't go saying it was forced into a union.


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Original post by Boab
Which shows he is the SNPs literature poster boy, how?

Just another in the long line of nonsense comments from MS36.


Not really. You'll choose to ignore any point that goes against you're viewpoint. I choose to take all information in and make my own mind up.

You've chosen to ignore a key SNP supporter, and the creator of the Sunday heralds art work for yesterday, claiming that non Scots are colonists.

The SNP. Remarkably like UKIP.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Boab
That those who are pro-EU are the ones with some form of brain activity?:confused:
Do you not see the irony of those being anti-UK being pro-EU? They reject Conservatives in Westminster. But accept Conservatives in Brussels who are called the European People's Party.

The EU institutions (Parliament, commission, Council) are dominated by members from the European People's Party. An independent Scotland would leave the British union and be legally obliged to accept the will of Conservatives in Brussels.

If people in Scotland hate the austerity 'forced' it on them by Tories in London, why not ask how the Greeks, Spanish and Irish felt when Conservatives in Brussels 'forced' it on them.

By joining the EU Scotland would have powers on tax & spending, benefits health, sports, education, justice and crime, and media. But most of these powers are already devolved to Scotland anyway.
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Original post by MatureStudent36
Not really. You'll choose to ignore any point that goes against you're viewpoint. I choose to take all information in and make my own mind up.

You've chosen to ignore a key SNP supporter, and the creator of the Sunday heralds art work for yesterday, claiming that non Scots are colonists.

The SNP. Remarkably like UKIP.


Yes you do. How is he the SNPs literature poster boy?

He isn't, you just make things up. No facts, no evidence, just lies after lies which we have proven time and time again.

The SNP remarkably like UKIP? Your pathetic lies know no limit. What a sad individual you are.
Reply 9396
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Boab
Original post by Reformed2010
Do you not see the irony of those being anti-UK being pro-EU?


No.

Two very different things.
Original post by Boab
Yes you do. How is he the SNPs literature poster boy?

He isn't, you just make things up. No facts, no evidence, just lies after lies which we have proven time and time again.

The SNP remarkably like UKIP? Your pathetic lies know no limit. What a sad individual you are.


http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-19523856

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/269635-alasdair-gray-talks-about-his-writing-and-thoughts-on-independence/

http://m.scotsman.com/lifestyle/arts/news/scottish-independence-alasdair-gray-slams-bbc-1-3149747

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/14/writers-alex-salmond-courting-hold-account
Original post by Boab
No.

Two very different things.
No it isn't. Both are unions that limit the sovereignty of their regional administrations and respective territories they govern. That's like saying California is different to the USA. Well yes it is in certain aspects, but in terms of the argument being used to call for independence you have to compare it. If people in California hate Republicans in Washington, they would need to explain why they are okay with right-wing politicians passing laws to govern California if the plan was to join in union with Mexico.

If legislation from Conservatives in London is unbearable. Why is it bearable for legislation from Christian Conservatives in Brussels.
If it is unbearable to respect the will of the UK parliament in London why is bearable to respect the will of parliament in Brussels.
If respecting the decision of the UK Conservatives to have austerity is unbearable why is it okay to respect the decision to have austerity from the EU Christian Conservatives?
If having decisions taken on the behalf of the Scottish people in London wrong. Why is it good to have decisions taken on behalf of the Scottish people in Brussels?
What makes British Conservatives and politicians more unbearable than European Conservatives and politicians?
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 9399
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Original post by MatureStudent36


And you consider this evidence? :rolleyes:

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