England will never win another World Cup, the Premier League is too rich.
Look at the successful football nations: Spain, Brazil, Germany. Compare their top leagues to ours, the premier league is so much richer than their leagues it is ridiculous, and this causes problems. Anyone who has played manager mode on FIFA will probably have neglected to promote youth players to their team because it takes 7 or 8 seasons for them to reach their potential, possibly more. That is exactly the same in the premier league, even the small clubs can afford to spend millions on a star signing, why take the gamble on an unproven youth player when you can just buy this proven player from the Dutch league?
Most of Spain's top clubs are in debt, which means that they can't afford to buy top quality players, they have to produce their own, so they give their local striker a place in the first team to cut costs and give him everything he needs to develop because it is cheaper than paying millions on a developed player. The first season or so he won't impress but with few other options the club continues with him and eventually he starts to prove himself and becomes a top quality striker. Unrealistic? Think about when Drogba started to become a world class striker, he was pretty old. In England if you can't cut it by the time you're 21 in the premier league then you're out the door, they can afford to buy a better replacement anyway. That isn't how football development works though, to make them world class you have to expose them to the top league week upon week, no English team will do that.
Even the youngsters that do come through the youth system tend to have been purchased from another club, which means the local Englishmen that could have been promoted to the first team are shunted out by whoever looks like they will be able to perform in the premier league at a younger age.
Look at Athletic Bilbao, they refuse to sign a player who doesn't live in their area of the country, yet they qualified for the Champions League this season, that is a team full of potential national players there, Bilbao has relied on scouting the local area for potential talent and putting faith in them to gradually develop into top players, there is no way that would happen in the premier league, risking kids will mean poorer results in the short term, which means you get sacked. So managers just go to another country and buy someone that has put the years in at their local club to become a talented player, because they will adapt to the premier league faster than a local youth player because they are already the finished product.
The problem is there is too much money in the game, the lower league clubs can't afford relegation so they have to spend big to stay up, there is no room for the long term plan when the financial implications of relegation are so large. The same goes for the top of the table, why develop youth when your opponents will be buying the best players from other countries? There's no way you'll win the league if you try it, so nobody does and nobody ever will.
Unless the premier league stops its buying culture local players will never be gambled on and we will never compete for international silverware again.
Most of Spain's top clubs are in debt, which means that they can't afford to buy top quality players, they have to produce their own, so they give their local striker a place in the first team to cut costs and give him everything he needs to develop because it is cheaper than paying millions on a developed player. The first season or so he won't impress but with few other options the club continues with him and eventually he starts to prove himself and becomes a top quality striker. Unrealistic? Think about when Drogba started to become a world class striker, he was pretty old. In England if you can't cut it by the time you're 21 in the premier league then you're out the door, they can afford to buy a better replacement anyway. That isn't how football development works though, to make them world class you have to expose them to the top league week upon week, no English team will do that.
Even the youngsters that do come through the youth system tend to have been purchased from another club, which means the local Englishmen that could have been promoted to the first team are shunted out by whoever looks like they will be able to perform in the premier league at a younger age.
Look at Athletic Bilbao, they refuse to sign a player who doesn't live in their area of the country, yet they qualified for the Champions League this season, that is a team full of potential national players there, Bilbao has relied on scouting the local area for potential talent and putting faith in them to gradually develop into top players, there is no way that would happen in the premier league, risking kids will mean poorer results in the short term, which means you get sacked. So managers just go to another country and buy someone that has put the years in at their local club to become a talented player, because they will adapt to the premier league faster than a local youth player because they are already the finished product.
The problem is there is too much money in the game, the lower league clubs can't afford relegation so they have to spend big to stay up, there is no room for the long term plan when the financial implications of relegation are so large. The same goes for the top of the table, why develop youth when your opponents will be buying the best players from other countries? There's no way you'll win the league if you try it, so nobody does and nobody ever will.
Unless the premier league stops its buying culture local players will never be gambled on and we will never compete for international silverware again.
Scroll to see replies
And in return we have the most exciting league in the world. I'd rather England never win another trophy if we can retain our position.
Edit: One of the biggest problems is English players don't/won't go abroad. Players from other countries gladly travel all over the world to play. English players are massively entitled and they seem simply unwilling to go to another league.
Edit: One of the biggest problems is English players don't/won't go abroad. Players from other countries gladly travel all over the world to play. English players are massively entitled and they seem simply unwilling to go to another league.
(edited 9 years ago)
lolwut?
So...no Galacticos...and Inter/AC/Juve don't buy big players...
The Messi/Xavi generation is an anomaly, Barca ALWAYS before that spent big. the thing is in Spain, Real Madrid and Barca are by far the biggest clubs, so have most of the TV revenue, merchandise to gain revenue to buy players.
And when did we ever compete? in the 70s, hardly many non-British players back then in the 1st Division, we didn't qualify for 2 World Cups. the thing is, we're arrogant as a country, and reckon because we invented it, we're somehow "superior" to other countries, when this is deluded *******s....
So...no Galacticos...and Inter/AC/Juve don't buy big players...
The Messi/Xavi generation is an anomaly, Barca ALWAYS before that spent big. the thing is in Spain, Real Madrid and Barca are by far the biggest clubs, so have most of the TV revenue, merchandise to gain revenue to buy players.
And when did we ever compete? in the 70s, hardly many non-British players back then in the 1st Division, we didn't qualify for 2 World Cups. the thing is, we're arrogant as a country, and reckon because we invented it, we're somehow "superior" to other countries, when this is deluded *******s....
Could be worse, we could be Scotland.
Original post by carlisomes
lolwut?
So...no Galacticos...and Inter/AC/Juve don't buy big players...
The Messi/Xavi generation is an anomaly, Barca ALWAYS before that spent big. the thing is in Spain, Real Madrid and Barca are by far the biggest clubs, so have most of the TV revenue, merchandise to gain revenue to buy players.
And when did we ever compete? in the 70s, hardly many non-British players back then in the 1st Division, we didn't qualify for 2 World Cups. the thing is, we're arrogant as a country, and reckon because we invented it, we're somehow "superior" to other countries, when this is deluded *******s....
So...no Galacticos...and Inter/AC/Juve don't buy big players...
The Messi/Xavi generation is an anomaly, Barca ALWAYS before that spent big. the thing is in Spain, Real Madrid and Barca are by far the biggest clubs, so have most of the TV revenue, merchandise to gain revenue to buy players.
And when did we ever compete? in the 70s, hardly many non-British players back then in the 1st Division, we didn't qualify for 2 World Cups. the thing is, we're arrogant as a country, and reckon because we invented it, we're somehow "superior" to other countries, when this is deluded *******s....
Guardiola was Barca's youth manager before taking over the first team, and he insisted on giving the youth a chance to develop, it didn't happen overnight, if you look at their squad the players that came through their system were different generations of youth players, 11 gifted youth team players didn't suddenly pop up, they were integrated at different times into the league until it was mainly their old youth team playing. Also Spain have only become a force since Barca stopped spending big on transfers so I don't understand your point there, that goes for galacticos as well, the Spanish team is mainly Barca because of their recent policy of promoting youth, few Real players feature in it.
As for Italy their team got to a final a few years ago, and as you said they don't spend big so what are you objecting to with them?
It always makes me laugh when people have a vendetta against the Premier League because of the money they have. The decision to split the league, rebrand and go to cable television was cutting edge and has been played to perfection. But sure, any company that shows innovation, acute awareness of its market, and flawless brand development is generally looked at as the epitome of evil once it gets too big. That's a separate issue though.
I dont think there's all that much correlation between national top divisions and that nations progress in international competitions at all, but it's the agenda issue at the moment. The South American countries, Holland and Belgium have good reputations for producing players at the moment but their leagues arent viewed as being up amongst the worlds best. Look at Brazil for instance, they've dominated international football but their own main league is largely made up of the players who didn't get signed by European clubs.
It's more about what happens in the years before a player gets anywhere near league football that dictates how good the development of players is. If the English kids were good enough we wouldn't need to buy players in from abroad at all! The problem is with players around the ages 7-8 to 16 being poorly coached so they're not good enough by the age of 18-21 and get overlooked. the academies either not having the funding or not modernising their philosophy on the game enough to create kids that can go on the big stage.
I dont think there's all that much correlation between national top divisions and that nations progress in international competitions at all, but it's the agenda issue at the moment. The South American countries, Holland and Belgium have good reputations for producing players at the moment but their leagues arent viewed as being up amongst the worlds best. Look at Brazil for instance, they've dominated international football but their own main league is largely made up of the players who didn't get signed by European clubs.
It's more about what happens in the years before a player gets anywhere near league football that dictates how good the development of players is. If the English kids were good enough we wouldn't need to buy players in from abroad at all! The problem is with players around the ages 7-8 to 16 being poorly coached so they're not good enough by the age of 18-21 and get overlooked. the academies either not having the funding or not modernising their philosophy on the game enough to create kids that can go on the big stage.
Haha, I love the bold statement followed by 'Anyone who has played FIFA will know...' :P Seriously though, that's a godd point you've made. I'm an Arsenal fan but I really hate the Premier League...
7 clubs of the world's richest 20 are English, and 2 of those clubs are on the list thanks only to wild outside investment (Chelsea and City, obvs).
Considering 6 nations are represented in that top 20, the fact that English teams account for 1/4 (if you don't include the two anomalies) is roughly what you'd expect to find.
So, your entire argument is built on sand. Well done you.
Considering 6 nations are represented in that top 20, the fact that English teams account for 1/4 (if you don't include the two anomalies) is roughly what you'd expect to find.
So, your entire argument is built on sand. Well done you.
Original post by Isambard Kingdom Brunel
Could be worse, we could be Scotland.
I wouldn't swap the Scottish Premiership for the English one.
Original post by justanotherposter
Guardiola was Barca's youth manager before taking over the first team, and he insisted on giving the youth a chance to develop, it didn't happen overnight, if you look at their squad the players that came through their system were different generations of youth players, 11 gifted youth team players didn't suddenly pop up, they were integrated at different times into the league until it was mainly their old youth team playing. Also Spain have only become a force since Barca stopped spending big on transfers so I don't understand your point there, that goes for galacticos as well, the Spanish team is mainly Barca because of their recent policy of promoting youth, few Real players feature in it.
As for Italy their team got to a final a few years ago, and as you said they don't spend big so what are you objecting to with them?
As for Italy their team got to a final a few years ago, and as you said they don't spend big so what are you objecting to with them?
er..no.
my point is that England has always been comparatively ****ty, and in times when English clubs weren't as rich as others in Europe.
So logically, it must be a deeper issue, IMHO as said coaching. To say we do ****, when we always have compared to other countries, is because of too much money is *******s.
I think its more the fact that we do not have enough coaches. there are only 2,769 English coaches holding Uefa's B, A and Pro badges, its top qualifications. In spain there are 23,995. Our young players just aren't good enough. As Guardiola said, there are hundreds of Jack Wilsheres in spain.
Original post by IanDangerously
It's more about what happens in the years before a player gets anywhere near league football that dictates how good the development of players is. If the English kids were good enough we wouldn't need to buy players in from abroad at all! The problem is with players around the ages 7-8 to 16 being poorly coached so they're not good enough by the age of 18-21 and get overlooked. the academies either not having the funding or not modernising their philosophy on the game enough to create kids that can go on the big stage.
This. This. This. The problem is at grass roots level, NOT the Premier League.
When Germany had a really **** tournament in Euro 2000 the DFB completely overhauled their youth development system. For example they have 20 times more qualified coaches than England does. The result? Reus, Ozil, Gundogan, Schurrle, Neuer, Muller, Draxler, Gotze, Hummels, Kroos, ter Stegen, Bender's... I could go on.
Original post by carlisomes
The Messi/Xavi generation is an anomaly, Barca ALWAYS before that spent big. the thing is in Spain, Real Madrid and Barca are by far the biggest clubs, so have most of the TV revenue, merchandise to gain revenue to buy players.
The Messi/Xavi generation is an anomaly, Barca ALWAYS before that spent big. the thing is in Spain, Real Madrid and Barca are by far the biggest clubs, so have most of the TV revenue, merchandise to gain revenue to buy players.
True, but then Spain, along with England and a lesser extent the Dutch, were the perennial international underachievers. What's their record pre-2008? Not even a World Cup Semi-Final, let alone a final, and one European Championship (the early days of the Championship - playing two games in the final).
Not that I'm saying the reason for England's "underachievement" is entirely down to money. There are a host of reasons, not least unrealistic expectations. But the biggest issue is probably development and coaching at a young age.
And when did we ever compete? in the 70s, hardly many non-British players back then in the 1st Division, we didn't qualify for 2 World Cups. the thing is, we're arrogant as a country, and reckon because we invented it, we're somehow "superior" to other countries, when this is deluded *******s....
England's record is superior to the likes of Spain's from 1990 to 2006 - the 1994 World Cup being the exception.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by samir12
Southampton seem to have been able to develop players like Lallana, Rodriguez, Bale, Walcott, Chamberlain, Luke Shaw and even Shearer. Clearly the coaching at Southampton must be doing something right and maybe set an example to other clubs and the FA?
Rodriguez isn't a Southampton youth product. They signed him from Burnley.
Original post by sr90
Rodriguez isn't a Southampton youth product. They signed him from Burnley.
Ahh yh my bad, will correct it.
...we'd have a chance with Mourinho I reckon. He's flourishes when working with scraps.
Quick Reply
Related discussions
- Can a Premier League team win all these in one season or is it impossible?
- FA Cup Replays Scrapped!
- Interested In Playing Sport at University?
- Why I chose DMU: Leicester, A Student City.
- Is Bukayo Saka the face of the Premier League?
- CAN I DO IT? (turn pro) football
- Zidane vs. Maradonna
- Will Everton get relegated in 2022/23?
- Tottenham Hotspur Society II
- The Liverpool FC Thread XVII
- Is Messi now the undisputed greatest of all time?
- FIFA Women's World Cup 2023
- The Arsenal Thread XXVI
- The Arsenal Thread XXV
- Rugby World Cup 2023 sweepstake: rep prizes to be won!
- Football Career Mode
- The Manchester United Thread XXIII
- RIP Sir Bobby Charlton
- Haaland - overrated?
- What team do you support and why?
