The Student Room Group

Conchita is not a "she"

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Original post by ManifoldManifest
Well if we're going to cite the OED let's go with 3. b (1 and 2 being irrelevant to the topic at hand): "The state of being male or female as expressed by social or cultural distinctions and differences, rather than biological ones;"

In fact, I'm looking at the OED right now and can't see the phrase "the members of one or other sex" at all.

Oh, they have usage notes, going right back to 1945: "Amer. Jrnl. Psychol. 58 228 In the grade-school years, too, gender (which is the socialized obverse of sex) is a fixed line of demarkation, the qualifying terms being ‘feminine’ and ‘masculine’."

Hmm, seems to be implying a distinction between sex and gender right there, 70 years ago. So not a particularly new definition.


Oh yeah, "the members of one or other sex" was from oxforddictionaries.com.

I guess we're both right.
Original post by manchesterunited15
Oh yeah, "the members of one or other sex" was from oxforddictionaries.com.

I guess we're both right.


From the page you reference:

"The word gender has been used since the 14th century as a grammatical term, referring to classes of noun designated as masculine, feminine, or neuter in some languages. The sense ‘the state of being male or female’ has also been used since the 14th century, but this did not become common until the mid 20th century. Although the words gender and sex both have the sense ‘the state of being male or female’, they are typically used in slightly different ways: sex tends to refer to biological differences, while gender refers to cultural or social ones."

(Bolding mine).
Original post by Lady Comstock
There would be no "PC backlash", the only "backlash" going on here is people who insist on referring to the persona as a "he" out of some sort of protest when it affects them in no way to just say "she".


I'd call him a she as well. I'm just pointing out that it should not be demanded and there should be no consequences to expressing your belief that he is a he.
Original post by Zürich
I'd call him a she as well. I'm just pointing out that it should not be demanded and there should be no consequences to expressing your belief that he is a he.


I don't understand what you mean by "consequences" - you wouldn't be arrested. You have the freedom to call Conchita a "he", just as someone has the freedom to criticise you for doing so.
Reply 84
Avatar for RtGOAT
RtGOAT
12
He/she/it clearly only won due to the novelty factor. The song was one of the weakest.
Original post by Lady Comstock
I don't understand what you mean by "consequences" - you wouldn't be arrested. You have the freedom to call Conchita a "he", just as someone has the freedom to criticise you for doing so.


hhhhmmm, I wouldnt be so sure about that. People have been sacked for less.
Original post by manchesterunited15
He or she covers everything. Penis = he, vagina = she. I guess there's hermaphrodites too, but they tend to get surgery to become he or she.


They is more to being a he or she than having a vagina or a penis. Some people are born with genitalia that doesn't conform to their gender identity. Conchita is a cross-dresser and I don't see what harm she causes in the world, posing as women and a man when she wants if that's how she wants to express herself and it makes her happy. You have no right to judge or restrict anyone. If she is dressed and acting like a woman, she wants to be addressed as a she.
Reply 87
Avatar for Ggmu!
Ggmu!
This is odd

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manchesterunited15



We have words for a reason. If we start calling things whatever we want then the whole concept of communication falls apart.

Don't pretend you're doing this out of some weird regard for correct language

If you met someone called Rob, but he said "Actually all my friends call me Joe and I prefer that" would you insist on calling him Rob just because that's his legal name?
Original post by Tyrion_Lannister
Don't pretend you're doing this out of some weird regard for correct language

If you met someone called Rob, but he said "Actually all my friends call me Joe and I prefer that" would you insist on calling him Rob just because that's his legal name?

Manutd is now banned so he won't be responding but in general, I understand why someone might have some reservations about calling a drag artist, like the singer, she.
Original post by Zürich
No skin of my nose what pronoun I use tbf. But I think people should be free to refer to him as a 'he' without fear of a PC backlash. In this day and age, you'd probably get the sack for stating a fact....


You wouldn't get the sack, you'd probably be told by your manager that your co-worker prefers to be referred to by a different pronoun and that you should call them 'she' rather than 'he'. If you then threw a hissy fit and started calling out PC BULL****!1 you'd probably get the sack.

You would never encounter Conchita in your workplace though because she's a drag act. She's Tom Neuwirth's female impersonation, not the gender he chooses to represent himself in real life. Having the third party refer to Conchita as 'she' is part of the female impersonation act. If you don't understand that then that's fine, you're probably not interested enough to go and find out more about what drag is.

When it comes to people who are newly transitioning to the other sex/representing the other gender, if you use the wrong pronoun because you think they don't look like a woman or a man, that's where it can become offensive and hurtful. I would hope that you'd have a bit more empathy for someone who has obviously struggled being born/raised as a sex/gender they don't think they belong to. Especially in the work place.
Lol no, it's just a dude in a dress.
Original post by RabbitCFH
Lol no, it's just a dude in a dress.


Lmao


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Reply 93
Avatar for Ggmu!
Ggmu!
Original post by RabbitCFH
Lol no, it's just a dude in a dress.


Lol basically this I think

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I just don't know why he/she/it had a beard :beard:
Either way, if anyone else had performed that song they would not have finished in the top ten, it was pretty average at best.
So mu15 has an opinion Mad Vlad disagrees with. Mad Vlad just bans him.
manchesterunited talking too much sense so gets banned

TSR gonna TSR
Conchita is a "she" whenever she wants to be a she, i.e. whenever she dresses like a "she". Conchita actually identifies as gender neutral (the same as me), which is why she retains the beard even when dressing as a woman.

You're completely entitled to misgender her on purpose, but you wouldn't lose anything by calling her by her chosen pronouns, and it makes you look incredibly ignorant.

EDIT: No idea why everyone is so hung up on the beard. It's just hair.
Original post by Aivicore
Conchita actually identifies as gender neutral (the same as me), which is why she retains the beard even when dressing as a woman.


Newsflash: You're female

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