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So apparently, I should be in bed, not driving around at 3am according to the police

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Drink drivers? Erratic or dangerous driving; it's pretty obvious.
Stolen cars/uninsured cars/banned/illegal drivers? Registration plates; those police cars have fancy ANPR systems.
Cars used for moving drugs or in un-roadworthy conditions? Apart from intelligence, sure, spot checks, but these are at least dedicated efforts, not pulling somebody over because they're enjoying a drive.

But they didn't pull the OP over because they thought any of the above was true. They were pulled over because they were driving at 3am, as is clear from the officer's dialogue.

Can you imagine this was applied to the rest of life? You're walking down the street at 3am, headphones in, burger in hand, and you get stopped by two police officers who do a 'spot check' because you're out at 3am in a country without a legislated curfew. They're not even allowed to do that under 'stop and search' without reasonable suspicion.

You come out of a 24/7 Tesco with a bag of shopping and you're subject to a 'spot check', because, ya'know, you could be carrying drugs or you might not have paid your Council Tax.

Drink/drug drivers aren't always swerving all over the road.

So stolen cars can only be caught once they've been reported?

Uninsured/banned/illegal drivers can only be found by talking to the driver and establishing their identity.

Relying on intel for stops would not be very effective.

Checking the condition of the car will undoubtedly be part of the reason for the stop.

How can you claim to know the reason from the four lines of dialogue?

The difference is that, for the reasons outlined above, the police are entitled to stop cars without having reasonable suspicion that an offence is being committed.

Reply 121

DarkWhite

Original post by pjm600

Not always, but that's like saying we should randomly stop people walking down the street because they might be on MDMA even though there's no signs to suggest that they are.

Clearly not, but the OP's spot check questions would not have determined whether or not their car was stolen.

Actually, the DVLA has a pretty comprehensive database, and ANPR software can pick up in uninsured/banned/illegal drivers.

Not exclusively relying on intelligence, but a stop check just because they're driving at 3am is ludicrous.

How do you know it was part of the reason for the stop from the four lines of dialogue?

The four lines of dialogue are fairly clear - "Hi sir, what are you doing up and about this time of night?" What kind of invasive question is that?

Yes, police officers can stop people without reasonable suspicion, which is not only ridiculous, but in this situation quite clearly applied purely because somebody is in their car at 3am, which is even more ludicrous.

Reply 122

InArduisFouette

'uninsured driving ' CANNOT be detected by ANPR

all ANPR can tell is if there is a insurance policy in place and if the insurer has uploaded the full information who the named drivers are .

without checking the identity of the driver and the roadworthyness of the car you cannot tell whether someone is insured.

s.163 powers exist to allow the police to verify the identity and licence status of the driver , and whether the car is insured at that time for that driver in that use.

other offences or reasonable suspicions discovered during that stop are fair game ...

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 123

WGR

Original post by DarkWhite

What the ****? The police need to know everything about us and what we're doing all of the time? It's frankly none of their business unless it's what, a stolen car, is similar to a car used nearby in a crime, etc.

A police officer wanting to know what you're upto or what kind of burger you've bought is not a reason to stop you.

Innocent until proven guilty. The police should stop people with reasonable suspicion, and the reason petrol stations are open 24/7 is because people drive 24/7.

And driving around in the dead of night is not reasonable suspicion? Stop acting like a 12 year old. The police should and are able to stop you for no reason whatsoever, deal with it. I saw a 60 year old granny get stopped by cops on Road Wars and it turns out she was uninsured with no MOT. Who would have guessed? You don't know until you check.

Reply 124

DarkWhite

Original post by WGR

Acting like a 12 year-old for wanting to be able to walk and drive around without being questioned for perfectly reasonable things? Grow up yourself.

Plenty of people of all ages drive at 3am; there's nothing suspicious about it at all.

Reply 125

mackemforever

Original post by DarkWhite

It is out of the ordinary. Most people are at home at 3am, not out in their cars. Especially with a young person if you see them driving at that time you have to start questioning why, and given the fact that our generation really hasn't helped itself when it comes to the reputation we have the answers have to include things like the fact that the driver may be returning from a night out and isn't sober, or is driving while uninsured, or in a stolen vehicle. Now obviously the percentage of people in our age group who would be doing any of those things is low, a small minority, but it doesn't change the fact that we are all tarred with the same brush.

At the end of the day the police catch a hell of a lot of people by responding to something which they think is out of the ordinary, and no matter how much you argue, you won't change the fact that a single young person, driving around at 3am is out of the ordinary.

Reply 126

IntriguedUser

Original post by russellsteapot

Once or twice. I don't really mind to be honest. Suspicion is always going to be based on things out of the ordinary, and a young man driving around at 3am is out of the ordinary.

Policing relies heavily on instinct and looking for unusual things. It might seem like you're being treated as a criminal but I think it's reasonable to sacrifice a tiny bit of freedom for good policing.

If there was a report of stolen goods, or a robery or assault, then yes suspicion is good. But they were just driving around, probably no reason to stop the OP

Reply 127

pjm600

Original post by IntriguedUser

If there was a report of stolen goods, or a robery or assault, then yes suspicion is good. But they were just driving around, probably no reason to stop the OP

How do you know there'd been no break-ins near where OP was stopped?

How do you know it wasn't to check if OP was insured, or his car was roadworthy?

Reply 128

russellsteapot

Original post by IntriguedUser

If there was a report of stolen goods, or a robery or assault, then yes suspicion is good. But they were just driving around, probably no reason to stop the OP

Suspicious behaviour tends to be based around things which are not normal. Driving around at 3am is not normal (although it isn't deviant either, that isn't the point), and it's a perfect reason to stop the OP. It isn't an accusation of guilt, it's a check.

In the same sense, I wouldn't think twice if I saw two people standing outside talking at 3pm down my street. At 3am however, I'd be very suspicious about what they were up to. Because it isn't normal behaviour for my street. That's how the police usually work - the action is less important than the context.

Reply 129

Y333EEE

Original post by Mighty Eagle

I was up late on Thursday night after spending hours on the computer and watching tv, I decided I was peckish so went out in my car to McDonald's for some food and a mocha drink, I then decided I fancied a little drive so I just drove out for 10 miles or so as I love quiet roads, I was driving within the speed limits on a quiet road with no houses in sight, just open fields and I suddenly noticed a police car, it flashed me to pull over so I did, the male officer asked me a few questions

Him . Hi sir, what are you doing up and about this time of night
Me. I've just been out to McDonald's for food and fancied a ride out, is that okay ?
Him. It's an unusual time , most people your age are at home asleep at this time
Me. I was hungry I am aloud to eat

the conversation went something like that anyway, he was basically saying I shouldn't be out at that time but it really wound me up, I am 22 years old for goodness sake, I wasn't breaking the law and yet I was stopped and quizzed like a criminal
Anybody else been stopped by police just for being out and about late at night ?

As long as you haven't committed a crime they can do bugger all to you! They pulled me several times in the past for no apparent reason but nothing came of it as I hadn't actually done anything wrong.