OCR Irish History

HELP - Discuss the view that the Irish gained more from Whig and Liberal Governments than Tory, conservative and coalition governments in the period 1798-1921?

Reply 1

Puddles the Monkey

Original post by Jonathan18

HELP - Discuss the view that the Irish gained more from Whig and Liberal Governments than Tory, conservative and coalition governments in the period 1798-1921?

Hiya, just going to move this to the history forum for you as you should get some replies there. :smile:

You should check out the forum too for anything which might be useful for you. :smile:

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=141

Reply 2

JamesyC

Original post by Jonathan18

HELP - Discuss the view that the Irish gained more from Whig and Liberal Governments than Tory, conservative and coalition governments in the period 1798-1921?

You need to break it down a lot because that is a very long period of Irish history.

1798 seen the United Irishmen rebellion (an irish middle class nationalist and protestant rebellion heavily influenced by the french revolution) and the 1800 act of union was a direct answer to defeating it by abolishing the Irish parliament as it was at the time and opening the sectarian rift. It was ofcourse, successful in that regard. Did it benefit the Irish people? In my opinion, no as the repercussions are still there to this day in Northern Ireland. It did not however repeal the idea of local democracy in Ireland as the Irish parliament was not what we could consider today a democratic institution (no parliament was really).

Likewise from about 1830-1860 saw the beginnings, the "event", and the aftermath of the famine which displaced millions and directly caused mass emigration which the population still hasn't recovered from to this day (the Irish diaspora is massive in comparison to the small population of the island today). The British Government at that time was not beneficial to the Irish people, nor the Scottish and most of the English. However Irelands part in the British Empire brought other benefits to some of the population and was directly responsible for the rise of Belfast and Dublin as important cities in the UK - Dublin was essentially the second city for a very long time, on and off with Glasgow.

There was a lot more stability in Ireland between the aftermath of the famine and the outbreak of WW1 and the original Home Rule Act. This act was intended to settle nationalism in Ireland while keeping it within the empire. Obviously this failed on numerous occasions and was used as a bargaining chip in WW1 to both irish nationalists and irish unionists to fight for Britain. The repression of more rebellions was brutal but probably more to do with Dublin castle than Westminster. The coalition government was more progressive than people believe in trying to solve the situation in Ireland than the previous governments, especially those in the earlier part of the 1800s. Partition was the "final" solution to the question and we know where that led us, but it was going to be civil war either way.

Thats a very brief run down and I'm only going by memory, so its not fact. You need specific questions.

Reply 3

trendywendymark

I'd say look at the main points of benefit for the Irish ie Land Acts, Home Rule, Act of Union, Emancipation and the Anglo-Irish treaty (as an example) and say which was more beneficial in reference to the government which passed them.

I did this essay in class and got an A and I basically noted how the gained more in paper and in theory from the Liberals who were politically more pro-independence (introducing HR bills and giving the Irish what they wanted) yet also imposed both coercion acts (1833+1882). Gladstone declared himself pro-HR, making it a party political issue for the Liberals. The built in majority of conservatives in the HoL led the Liberals to push for parliamentary reform showing their dedication to HR. The liberals also passed the 2 land acts (1870 and 1881) laying the foundations for solving the land question and quelling agrarian agitation.

The conservatives gave them emancipation allowing constitutional nationalism to flourish later in the period, and promoted more constructive unionsim (making it work) because they were naturally more imperial. The cons passed the Ashbourne land act (which let people borrow 100% of the money to buy their land) and the Wyndham act which facilitated the transfer of 9 million acres of land, after which 75% of people owned their own land - solved the land issue. The cons wer emost effective during the famine, with Peel organising £100000 worth of aid for Ireland.

The coalition from 1916 onwards is interesting because it was headed by Lloyd George who was a liberal, but the conservatives actually had a majority. It was this con-maj coalition which passed the Govt of Ireland act in 1920 and granted independence in 1921 after the signing of the Anglo-Irish treaty.

Therefore you can say that they gained more from the Conservatives and Torys (and arguably the coalition) perhaps over the Whigs and Libs.

Reply 4

archiee12

how did everyone find the exam? we thought it was very difficult....

Reply 5

saimaahmadd

Original post by archiee12

how did everyone find the exam? we thought it was very difficult....

Thought it was okayyyy.

I answered the first and the last. Think my constitutional/revolutionary question went the best: my themes were political reform (Home Rule and independence), religious reform (dominance of Anglican church) and economic reform whist for the agrarian question my themes were: political issues, religious issues and agrarian issues and I concluded how political issues were far more influentiall whilst religious issues were exploited by O'Connell and slightly De Valera whilst also mentioning Ulster Unionism, in that whilst it hindered the development of nationalism it showed just how important religion was.

Reply 6

anxiouslife

I did 7&9 too. For the first one I said that Constitutional nationalism received support from both the public and Church prior to the turn of the 20th century, where it was the Revolutionary nationalists who obtained more populist support. I also spoke of British governmental support, citing the aid offered to constitutional nationalists from Britain across the time period (i.e- Emancipation, Land Acts, Church Acts etc) and the complete lack of support offered to rev.nationalists prior to 1900- only grudgingly negotiating the Anglo-Irish treaty in the 20th century.

For Q9 I said that although the issue of land certainly helped add to the general fervor of Irish nationalism but other factors were crucially more important. The amassing of nationalist support through the Land League, for example, helped to unify the country and added to the nationalist cause, but I said the main thing propelling was the question of Home Rule. Other factors I mentioned was the disestablishment of the Anglican Church and also the flexibility of the British government for all the advances that were made; without them, it would not have been possible. So yah the very fact that Irish nationalism continued to very much grow and change even after the issue of land was resolved in 1903 (Wyndham) highlights how other factors were ultimately more crucial :gthumb:

Anyone add some more stuff?

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 7

frog69

I did questions 7 and 9, and thought the questions were generally pretty tough

For 7 I structured it into themes of support from the Irish public, from the British government, from abroad and posthumous support, arguing that although constitutional nationalism gained more support from the government, all constitutional nationalist leaders had 'fall from graces' which reduced support, eg Parnell with the Kitty O'Shea affair and Redmond with the loss of support to Sinn Fein and Sinn Fein, helped by the cumulative legacy of martyrs such as Wolfe Tone, Emmet etc gained the most support

For 9) I split it intro agrarian, religious, political and cultural issues, arguing that the political were most important, shown through the period after 1916 and the effective solutions of the other issues, unsurprising due to the overarching nationalist aim of increasing political independence from Britain