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Original post by manchesterunited15
Not so much any more, they did in 11-12 and 12-13 though



Could hardly be much worse than it was this season

What actual 9? Mandzukic?


I like Mandzukic, think he's pretty underrated and is not far off Dzeko's level. But he's not flashy or explosive so people want someone like Balotelli. Other than those 2 I see **** all on the horizon in terms of so called top strikers. Giroud gets too much stick though, when he's fresh he's better than anything we're likely to sign so we just need to ensure some depth to maintain his top form. Remy/Bony sort of the nest tier, probably more realistic.

So few strikers around, every ****ing player in Europe these days seems to be a CAM these days :colonhash:
Reply 7641
Original post by Fizzel
I wonder how Cesc feels about it all? He's been utterly used by Barca and discarded. I wonder if he knew how it all ended whether he'd have left Arsenal in the first place. He didn't even disguise the fact Chelsea were the best offer he could find not the one he wanted. He must be dreading facing either Arsenal or Barca seeing his dream club and facing Wenger and the club that truly loved him.


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I don't think he'll be too perturbed by it. He's always done what's best for number one throughout his career- from leaving Barca for us, forcing a move back to Barca, flirting with United last year and now this. He'll probably fell like he's got a chip on his shoulder and has people to prove wrong- given Mourinho's motivational prowess, it makes a peril situation even more worrisome.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by baconbutty
Every big team don't play with a dm


City and Bayern dont usually these days but even then City play with 2 tanks who provide enough physicality to compensate, even then Javi Garcia plays often enough too. Bayern play Schweinsteiger who can play as DM as well and then they have Javi Martinez. Kroos, Muller, Gotze press like hell as well so they've got other Aces to play.

Wenger's sort of gone for the Alonso/Schweinsteiger deep lying CM instead of a DM but Arteta is pony so we're left with Aaron Ramsey being relied on to provide all the energy and power for us. Ozil/Cazorla are very lazy players and so at times it really does feel like we're playing with 9 men in big games.

Abou Diaby is fit would solve alot of our problems tbh, would love to see him in the double pivot with Aaron
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by baconbutty
It's got nothing to do with playing defensively it just involves not doing suicide attacking tactics. A balanced approach. Explain to me why 8 players are ahead of play 10 minutes in vs chelsea at Stamford bridge and we get slaughtered but the team plays cautiously at the emirates and gets a result. It has absolutely nothing to do with a DM it's just awful tactics. What difference would a dm of made to the goals conceded vs city, Liverpool? Fabregas could easily of played artetas/flaminis role to a much higher
Level. I don't see why he wouldn't fit a counter attacking plan as well he would excel releasing runners from deep on the counter


We'll have to agree to disagree. As great as Fabregas was when he was at Arsenal he was a bit of a liability when it came to defending. Throw him in with Ozil who cant defend to save his life and Ramsey will have to be the one doing all the tackling. Bye bye to Ramsey's goals and assists.
Original post by 419
I don't think he'll be too perturbed by it. He's always done what's best for for number one throughout his career- from leaving Barca for us, forcing a move back to Barca, flirting with United last year and now this. He'll probably fell like he's got a chip on his shoulder and has people to prove wrong- given Mourinho's motivational prowess, it makes a peril situation even more worrisome.


Oh this is definitely happening, Cesc is officially out for revenge against Arsenal/Wenger no matter what he says. Can guarentee that he'll want to play out of his skin against us, probably will too.


In b4 Mourinho/Cesc embrace on Emirates touchline as the horde of chav away fan scum taunt relentlessly. Wenger smiles gormlessly and probably hugs Cesc post match, meanwhile Ramsey's agent sends out feelers to Real. Cycle begins again.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Zürich
City and Bayern dont usually these days but even then City play with 2 tanks who provide enough physicality to compensate, even then Javi Garcia plays often enough too. Bayern play Schweinsteiger who can play as DM as well and then they have Javi Martinez. Kroos, Muller, Gotze press like hell as well so they've got other Aces to play.

Wenger's sort of gone for the Alonso/Schweinsteiger deep lying CM instead of a DM but Arteta is pony so we're left with Aaron Ramsey being relied on to provide all the energy and power for us. Ozil/Cazorla are very lazy players and so at times it really does feel like we're playing with 9 men in big games.

Abou Diaby is fit would solve alot of our problems tbh, would love to see him in the double pivot with Aaron


A Ramsey fabregas midfield can cope fine vs most teams in the prem because the quality is too poor to expose it. The big away games has nothing to do with a DM it's the fullbacks being exposed far too high up the pitch. All that would have to happen would be to have the fullbacks sitting deeper. Podolski in for cazorla. Ramsey to sit a few yards deeper and ozil to display some tactical awareness and there you have it a competitive team in big away games
Original post by Zürich
Oh this is definitely happening, Cesc is officially out for revenge against Arsenal/Wenger no matter what he says. Can guarentee that he'll want to play out of his skin against us, probably will too.


In b4 Mourinho/Cesc embrace on Emirates touchline as the horde of chav away fan scum taunt relentlessly. Wenger smiles gormlessly and probably hugs Cesc post match, meanwhile Ramsey's agent sends out feelers to Real. Cycle begins again.


I'm so glad this situation isn't getting to you :smile:
Original post by De Chirico
We'll have to agree to disagree. As great as Fabregas was when he was at Arsenal he was a bit of a liability when it came to defending. Throw him in with Ozil who cant defend to save his life and Ramsey will have to be the one doing all the tackling. Bye bye to Ramsey's goals and assists.


I don't understand your point at all the losses this season have absolutely nothing to do with the holding position the criticism of arteta is that he just passes it backwards/sideways and offers no forward momentum he isn't the reason arsenal get spanked in big away games
Original post by baconbutty
A Ramsey fabregas midfield can cope fine vs most teams in the prem because the quality is too poor to expose it. The big away games has nothing to do with a DM it's the fullbacks being exposed far too high up the pitch. All that would have to happen would be to have the fullbacks sitting deeper. Podolski in for cazorla. Ramsey to sit a few yards deeper and ozil to display some tactical awareness and there you have it a competitive team in big away games


Spot on with the full backs in fairness, cant remember when it became a go to tactic for them to push up like they do but it has to stop.

What's bizarre is that at WHL we dug in and played 100% defensive football, very well in fact, and then a week later Sagna/Gibbs cant wait to get beyond the midfield.

Forget about Podolski for 90m in big games, youre playing with 10 men. AOC at LW will put a shift in, Wilshere even perhaps. Say what you like about Jack but he works like a dog for 90m and chases and harries.
Original post by Zürich
Spot on with the full backs in fairness, cant remember when it became a go to tactic for them to push up like they do but it has to stop.

What's bizarre is that at WHL we dug in and played 100% defensive football, very well in fact, and then a week later Sagna/Gibbs cant wait to get beyond the midfield.

Forget about Podolski for 90m in big games, youre playing with 10 men. AOC at LW will put a shift in, Wilshere even perhaps. Say what you like about Jack but he works like a dog for 90m and chases and harries.

You know what, I'm not a fan of central midfielders on the wing(unless they have the requisite work rate) but Wilshere on the wing interests me for some reason. I have a feeling that he would do well there if he had a lot of games, he'll cut in and get some pass and move football going.

I do think that Wilshere will improve next season and this is Wengers reasoning in not buying Fabregas, personally he should just get Vela, Aurier, a DM and a striker, I reckon Wilshere will play as a DM though.
Original post by Zürich
Spot on with the full backs in fairness, cant remember when it became a go to tactic for them to push up like they do but it has to stop.

What's bizarre is that at WHL we dug in and played 100% defensive football, very well in fact, and then a week later Sagna/Gibbs cant wait to get beyond the midfield.

Forget about Podolski for 90m in big games, youre playing with 10 men. AOC at LW will put a shift in, Wilshere even perhaps. Say what you like about Jack but he works like a dog for 90m and chases and harries.


The tactics make no sense. The team sits deep vs dortmund, Napoli away, spurs, chelsea and city at home as they should but for some reason go all out attack and push incredibly high up vs city away, chelsea away, pool would be interesting to actually hear what wenger has to say about this because if it's intentional it's absolutely awful management
Is it possible that Chelsea was his only offer? Can't really blame him if it was.

Ed MalyonVerified account ‏@eaamalyon

Fabregas' people signed yesterday on penthouse in Battersea Reach after Man United signalled final intention not to sign player.
Original post by baconbutty
The tactics make no sense. The team sits deep vs dortmund, Napoli away, spurs, chelsea and city at home as they should but for some reason go all out attack and push incredibly high up vs city away, chelsea away, pool would be interesting to actually hear what wenger has to say about this because if it's intentional it's absolutely awful management


I do think the lack of pace in the team this year due to injuries left us in a strange tactical world in which pushing up becomes almost sensible. See the Bayern, or LFC home games for instance in which it was genuinely effective at getting us on the front foot. But it also requires a huge amount of pressing and pro-activity and we got none of that from the midfield at Anfield/SB to the extent that youd almost call it a motivational rather than tactical issue.

Hopefully with Walcott back, and maybe a new LW(Vela?) we can stop the madness because we definitely never used to play that way until recently.

Original post by jam278
You know what, I'm not a fan of central midfielders on the wing(unless they have the requisite work rate) but Wilshere on the wing interests me for some reason. I have a feeling that he would do well there if he had a lot of games, he'll cut in and get some pass and move football going.

I do think that Wilshere will improve next season and this is Wengers reasoning in not buying Fabregas, personally he should just get Vela, Aurier, a DM and a striker, I reckon Wilshere will play as a DM though.


Wilshere can play anywhere in midfield in truth since he has good passing ability, pace and work rate. He could conceivably become an Iniesta wide player type, that kind of role looks increasing likely with Ramsey/Ozil locking down the Central attacking/B2B slots. Wilshere loves to drive from deep of course, but he's actually brilliant playing off instinct and moving into dangerous areas too. He has done well playing wide for us at times.

I think it would be a proper slap in the face to Ramsey/Wilshere, who were essentially what Wenger was left to work with in August 2011, if Cesc just strolled back into the side after getting fed up with his little Barca adventure. I think in terms of principle, Wenger would see that as a betrayal. End of the day, it is only because its Cesc that many were interested in signing a CAM at all. It was noone's priority 2 weeks ago and isnt now either.

It is worrying that this has all the hallmarks of a classic Wenger-sleeper window. That's really not acceptable anymore.

Serious credit to Chelsea though in the efficiency of your transfer dealings though, everything is set up to go and your just get it done. Not even getting done on the price any more, some seriously good business has been done over the past 12 months really.
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 7653
Original post by manchesterunited15
In 11-12 and 12-13 he played deeper than Silva and Nasri, yes. He didn't score 20 goals in those seasons, he scored 6.


But even then, Yaya wasn't playing a deep role then and was quite heavily involved in City's attack play in the final third in those seasons. That defensive deep duty was generally left to someone else- Barry and Garcia.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Zürich


Wilshere can play anywhere in midfield in truth since he has good passing ability, pace and work rate. He could conceivably become an Iniesta wide player type, that kind of role looks increasing likely with Ramsey/Ozil locking down the Central attacking/B2B slots. Wilshere loves to drive from deep of course, but he's actually brilliant playing off instinct and moving into dangerous areas too. He has done well playing wide for us at times.

I think it would be a proper slap in the face to Ramsey/Wilshere, who were essentially what Wenger was left to work with in August 2011, if Cesc just strolled back into the side after getting fed up with his little Barca adventure. I think in terms of principle, Wenger would see that as a betrayal. End of the day, it is only because its Cesc that many were interested in signing a CAM at all. It was noone's priority 2 weeks ago and isnt now either.

It is worrying that this has all the hallmarks of a classic Wenger-sleeper window. That's really not acceptable anymore.

Serious credit to Chelsea though in the efficiency of your transfer dealings though, everything is set up to go and your just get it done. Not even getting done on the price any more, some seriously good business has been done over the past 12 months really.

Yeah agree with this. Don't think Cesc needed to come to you guys tbh.

We've been efficient but we need 3 more players imo. Need a fullback, another CM for backup(tiago mendes) and an AM, although we may play 4-3-3 to circumvent the need for an AM. Although Chelsea 4-3-3 means 4-5-1
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by 419
But even then, Yaya wasn't playing a deep role then and was quite heavily involved in City's attack play in the final third in those seasons. That defensive deep duty was generally left to someone else- Barry and Garcia.


Garcia wasn't there in 11-12, so Barry and Yaya were the deep mids.

For both seasons, he wasn't the deepest mid, but he was more a deep mid than an attacking one. If you want to be extra specific it would be a 4-1-1-2-2
Yaya played as the BBM. He's not an attacking midfielder but played as a central midfielder, essentially Ramsey's current role.

However Yaya was playing in a more defensive style of football while under pellegrini it's a more all out attacking style.
(edited 9 years ago)
Ramsey ain't gonna be Arsenals next hero either. If we don't win the league and he continues his form then rightfully expect him to leave next summer.


We all know how strong loyalty is by now


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Reply 7658
I think Ramsey will give you at least two seasons, and if there is progress, I think he'd stay longer. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy who buys into his own hype (probably thanks to his past injuries). I don't know if Wenger would sell him anyway though, if someone offered enough money. It's bizarre, nobody can figure Wenger out at all.
Original post by llys
I think Ramsey will give you at least two seasons, and if there is progress, I think he'd stay longer. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy who buys into his own hype (probably thanks to his past injuries). I don't know if Wenger would sell him anyway though, if someone offered enough money. It's bizarre, nobody can figure Wenger out at all.


Don't think at this rate id personally want to ever sell Ramsey. He's going to be one of those world class players you can never make up for by selling




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