The Spanish Football Thread

Do you think Koke and Azpilauceta will start for Spain or will they be on the bench?

Interesting, one thing that sticks out with your tiki taka analysis is Koke. Do you think Koke can fit in a real tiki taka system(not the defensive possession stuff here)? I've seen Atlético play some very good football at times even though they're the types to grind out a result.

Also, would you say that Koke is the future for spain and what position do you see him playing in the long term? I assume you think that after this world cup you see the manager reverting back to tiki taka because of the youngsters providing a spark?

I'd also say that in the smaller games it's not just down to a case of energy levels but also a case of the opposition. It's easier to squeeze somebody and press them to depth if they're generally not as good as you physically, mentally and technically. Better teams may find a better way to circumvent the pressing and be physically fitter so they may not be as willing to press them relentlessly when later in the match they'll tire out.

Attacking wise the future is very, very bright. Shame that the back 4 is ****e.

I think he does. He fulfills all the requirements - high workrate, good positional awareness & intelligence, movement, decent defensive contribution, is technically gifted, a good passer and used to a high pressing game. Of course he's a relatively rough player compared to e.g. Xavi, but imo that is a side effect of playing in a defensive system that isn't ideal to make technical or creative players shine (and still he shines, which is why he could play in many systems) at Atlético. In the Spain youth teams for example always fit in seamlessly and his "rough" areas didn't come through as much but his creative/technical side was emphasised.

And I do think with the transition to Koke, Thiago etc the play will naturally become more attacking and tiki-taka again, first because those younger players have the ability to press and the defensive abilities and workrate that e.g. Xavi has lost. Part of the reason why Spain started using a slower approach was Xavi no longer being able to help out defensively; to cover up for that VdB resorted to the double pivot with Alonso slowing the game down more. Means more control and defensive stability in midfield, but less attacking power. Put in e.g. Koke for Xavi who offers good defensive workrate and you no longer need to play this control overload system but can co back to a 4-3-3, and you no longer need someone like Alonso either. And then there's the fact that "tiki taka" is just the way football has been played in Spain for years. It's the style that suits Spain the most, both on a physical level as well as regarding the way football is taught in the youth systems. Not using that wouldn't make sense, even though you can always integrate new ideas, but that will come naturally with new generations of players too.

And yeah, I think Koke and Thiago will be the next step in Spain's development. As for his role, if Spain keeps using the double pivot, which I doubt and don't hope for the reasons I mentioned, he will play alongside Busquets, like he did in the Bolivia friendly for example (which worked out nicely btw). For the post-WC era I see Spain use the midfield roles they used in the U21 Euros:

---Busquets
Koke - Thiago

...with Isco taking Iniesta's role on the left. (And with that lineup I posted you still have Illarra, Rubén as options and Óliver, Denis Suárez etc coming through the ranks as well.)



Defence-wise, the future isn't really dark either if you have Bagnack and Ié coming through the ranks tbh.

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Yeah just read this.

Seems pretty reasonable tbf. I'm pretty biased but I'd like to see Ruben Pardo start, his long range passing is better than anybody in that middle three tbh and it's not like he can't play short passing football, he can control a game like not many other people I've seen at that age. I guess he's not as established as those two and doesn't play every single game for Sociedad unlike Koke/Busquetts when fit.

That team looks pretty scary in the future though, you could play it now and they'll probably get close to winning the tournament. Personally once Spain transition I see another WC for them.

Defence wise you've got the two basque Martinez lot for starters at CB, Azpilicueta, Carvajal, Alba, Grimaldo(if he gets back to form) and others.

Such bitterness from Barca in the Cesc statement

Nice to see Barca oozing with class as usual. They really need to scrap the pseudo-humility act and say how they really feel, it's actually excruciating that they spent 2 years tapping a guy up, when they get him discard him and criticise his performances when he leaves .

They have got a point, Cesc faded near the end of the season, but they essentially said that Cesc isn't good enough for them and downplayed his achievements at Barca.

Anyway can see Cesc shining at Chelsea, reckon this just be classic Barca dealings where they're then mugged off because a guy couldn't fit the system as well as others.

It is true that he used to turn **** in the second half of the season, but as a statement on the website and with that timing it's just a low blow. Especially with those typos in there and the way it was worded, just highly unprofessional. Honestly thought the website got hacked or something at first, lol. "He is leaving with memories of a hat-trick against Mallorca" was the highlight for me, doesn't sound bad if you read the whole sentence but in connection with the paragraph before that that was just wow That said, the Spanish and Catalan versions didn't sound that harsh for some reason and the official, shorter announcement sounded more friendly.

Parting ways was better for both him and Barça though. He really didn't fit, couldn't develop according to his abilities and there was no chance the system was going to be built around him anytime soon either. He shouldn't have left Arsenal and Barça shouldn't have signed him in the first place, so it's correcting mistakes now. I think he'll do well in the PL but can't really see him getting on with Mou tbh.

I like Pardo as well but he's probably not as proven on the big stage yet, same goes for Iturraspe btw, plus the Thiago/Koke combo is quite well-rehearsed from the Euros etc so I think that'll be the next step. Provided everybody develops as expected, for the next World Cup or after that you could field two or three different midfields that don't differ too much in quality:

Illarra - Thiago, Koke
Iturraspe - Óliver, Isco
Pardo - Sergi Roberto, Denis Suárez

And that's ignoring Busquets or any of the current senior players. Up front you have Jesé, (Isco), Morata, Deulofeu, Muniain and in defence in addition to those you mentioned Montoya, Moreno, Bartra. Pretty much stacked in all positions, quite amazing.



They deleted the juicy part now to cover it up too. Pathetic

He did fade in the second half of each season, but as a statement & with that timing it's a low blow. Especially with the typos and wording, just unprofessional. Honestly thought the website got hacked at first, lol. "He is leaving with memories of a hat-trick against Mallorca" was the highlight, doesn't sound bad if you read the whole sentence but after that bitchy paragraph that was just wow. That said, the Spanish/Catalan versions didn't sound that harsh for some reason and all in all it's better than the smear campaign Valdés got. RM levels really

Parting ways was better for everyone involved though, esp him. He shouldn't have left Arsenal and Barça shouldn't have signed him in the first place, so it's correcting mistakes now. I think he'll do well in the PL but can't really see him getting on with Mou tbh, but perhaps I'd be surprised.

You'll find no club more dignified than Real Madrid. Fabregas would not have been treated so poorly by the great Castilian club.

Rakitic was brilliant last night, as was Modric. Both just ooze class and they dominated midfield imo.

Can't wait to see Spain tonight. Silva is a key player I think. I just dont understand why people are ruling Spain out?

VdB needs to start Cesc up front. Costa isn't right for them. Funny that both of Chelsea's new signings are both fighting for the same spot in the Spain side.

How are they expected to line up, anyone know?

I Reckon:

Casillas

Azpilicueta
Ramos
Pique
Alba

Busquets
Alonso

Xavi
Iniesta
Silva

Costa

Seems about right. Looks like Pedro will take Navas' role as the impact sub. Shame because I'd have him starting over Silva otherwise.

Really? I'd have Pedro starting over Costa if I was going to play him.