Should faith schools be banned?

Poll

Should faith schools be banned

KingBradly

Should faith schools be outlawed?

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Reply 1

King Kebab

No

However religious schools should not be funded by the state

Reply 2

limetang

No. As for whether they should be state funded that's another question. If enough parents in a given area want them to exist then I think they should be given state funding as demand is clearly there from the taxpayers for that sort of school. That said I'm not one who'd overly resist them being closed either.

Reply 3

Mankytoes

Absolutely. We should all have the same base of schooling, and it shouldn't promote one religion or another. Primary school children are certainly too young to make decisions about religion, it's just indoctrination at that age. We shouldn't be drilling in how we are all different at such a young age. If parents want to pressure their kids into following their religion, they still have church/mosque/synagogue/whatever, all the time at home. The state must be neutral- secular.

Reply 4

EllieC130

Yes, more for the religious people than the non religious. They get alienated for because of if :/

Reply 5

ihavemooedtoday

Original post by limetang

I think the problem with that is, say if you have a community that's just big enough for one school, and 99% of the population has the same religion, so the government funds a religious school for that community, and the other 1% gets to fend for themselves.

For that reason I don't think governments should fund religious schools. Just like how governments should not fund churches or mosques or Buddhist temples, even if there is taxpayer demand.

That said, it's also true that there's no way for the government to spend money in a way that benefits everyone equally most of the time (eg. disability benefits mostly only benefit disabled people and their family, and subsidized education only benefit children and their family).

Fundamentally (beyond monetary concerns), I don't think the government should endorse any religion, not even if 99% of the country believes in that religion.

Original post by KingBradly

Should faith schools be outlawed?

They definitely shouldn't be outlawed, since it's a form of expression of religious freedom.

However, if they fail to cover all the material covered in mandatory education, they shouldn't be allowed to count as mandatory education.

That creates some problems of course - for example, how are they going to teach evolution? But that's their problem, and I am fine with it as long as students come out of their schools have as good an understanding of evolution as students from other schools.

Reply 6

arxtra

Diversity, not division, is the way forward in schools

"We can't claim to be a tolerant society when we still segregate our children based on the faith of their parents."

Reply 7

zippity.doodah

Original post by King Kebab

No

However religious schools should not be funded by the state

^this

if you ban privately funded faith schools, you'd better be ready to ban children going to church, children celebrating christmas, etc as well. same logic. culture is a private institution - don't ban cultural traditions. you can ban it from being governmentally endorsed, but not privately/voluntarily practised.

Reply 8

No Man

Yes, get rid of all of them.

Reply 9

The Lord

Original post by zippity.doodah

That's a massive straw man. The reason people (including myself) have an issue with faith schools is that you're extremely impressionable as a child, and school is compulsory, unlike celebrating Christmas or going to church. I don't have an issue with people having their own religious beliefs. The issue I have is that religious indoctrination should not be a part of the education system. Religious Education (as in the subject itself) is fine and should be encouraged, as it allows people to understand a variety of different religious beliefs and encourages tolerance and understanding of those beliefs.

However, if a school is run on the basis of one particular faith, it not only intrinsically segregates pupils so they're always around people of the same faith (not great in terms of talking about and understanding other people's views) and the teaching is also likely to be focused on the religious beliefs of that religion. This suppresses the pupils' ability to engage in free thought about different views and beliefs and results in intolerance and segregation which is bad in a society that prides itself on its multiculturalism and diversity.

Reply 10

Asciant

Naah, they should be regulated though (so they can't teach whatevs religion as proof for everything). I went to a faith based primary and it was good, they taught us more than just science which I think is a good thing, because not everybody is an atheist and understanding other religions helps to reduce religious conflict :smile:

Reply 11

fybyth

Yes because Christian values are so abhorrent and faith schools are so dogmatic

Lets return to reality. How many children do you see coming out of faith schools as diehard Christians? none. do faith schools teach the kids about other religions? yes. so what is the problem with faith schools? nothing.

Reply 12

James222

Alot of muslims in my city go to CoE schools and love it

Reply 13

fybyth

Original post by The Lord

This suppresses the pupils' ability to engage in free thought about different views and beliefs and results in intolerance and segregation which is bad in a society that prides itself on its multiculturalism and diversity.

What am I reading. Oh my days you sound like you've been indoctrinated in some sci-fi utopia where only the truth is permitted to be spoken, those who speak falsities shall be reprimanded, compliance is a virtue, obey and you will be rewarded

Reply 14

zippity.doodah

Original post by The Lord

what do you mean "the education system"? I'm against it being a part of the state school system, I'm only saying it should be allowed on a purely privately funded basis (private schools)

Religious Education (as in the subject itself) is fine and should be encouraged,

why should it be encouraged? if anything I think it should just be replaced with "philosophy" so religion isn't represented as more important than philosophy which encompasses not only cosmological and existential questions but moral questions as well without resorting to authoritarian faith based systems to support them

as it allows people to understand a variety of different religious beliefs and encourages tolerance and understanding of those beliefs.

to be honest, again, I think something like politics (about the different ideologies) is more important than teaching about religion - it's better to teach kids how to be participating and aware citizens than people who know this and that about religions that are becoming pretty much increasingly irrelevant

However, if a school is run on the basis of one particular faith, it not only intrinsically segregates pupils so they're always around people of the same faith (not great in terms of talking about and understanding other people's views) and the teaching is also likely to be focused on the religious beliefs of that religion. This suppresses the pupils' ability to engage in free thought about different views and beliefs and results in intolerance and segregation which is bad in a society that prides itself on its multiculturalism and diversity.

I'm not disagreeing with you - that's bad, if it's in the government-funded education system. otherwise, I have no idea how you can say it's principally different to sending kids to church. if this is what you think (e.g. segregating kids as a matter of reality) then does that mean everything private should also be banned (e.g. private schools segregating the rich kids from the poor)?

Reply 15

Jean-Luc Picard

Original post by arxtra

Diversity, not division, is the way forward in schools

"We can't claim to be a tolerant society when we still segregate our children based on the faith of their parents."

agree with this :smile:

segregation ignores issues rather than tackling them, it solves nothing.

Reply 16

The Lord

Original post by fybyth

What I mean is that if throughout your entire education you are taught to believe one religion and you are never given the opportunity to learn about other religions and consider other people's beliefs, you're unlikely to be as tolerant of those beliefs as someone who's had the opportunity to learn about a wide range of religions and understand the beliefs of others. As I said in my original post, I support the teaching of religious studies on the basis that it offers a balanced and unbiased view.

Reply 17

The Lord

Original post by zippity.doodah

what do you mean "the education system"? I'm against it being a part of the state school system, I'm only saying it should be allowed on a purely privately funded basis (private schools)

why should it be encouraged? if anything I think it should just be replaced with "philosophy" so religion isn't represented as more important than philosophy which encompasses not only cosmological and existential questions but moral questions as well without resorting to authoritarian faith based systems to support them

to be honest, again, I think something like politics (about the different ideologies) is more important than teaching about religion - it's better to teach kids how to be participating and aware citizens than people who know this and that about religions that are becoming pretty much increasingly irrelevant

I'm not disagreeing with you - that's bad, if it's in the government-funded education system. otherwise, I have no idea how you can say it's principally different to sending kids to church. if this is what you think (e.g. segregating kids as a matter of reality) then does that mean everything private should also be banned (e.g. private schools segregating the rich kids from the poor)?

I'm not sure how to quote specific bits of what you said so I'll deal with your points in order.

Why should it make any difference if it's a private school? Even private schools have restrictions on what they're allowed to teach and I don't think religious indoctrination should be permitted at all in education, regardless of whether it's in a private or state school.

Well, we live in a society where a lot of people have religious beliefs, and, due to multiculturalism we have in this country, a very wide range of these beliefs. I think it's important to promote tolerance so if people have a basic understanding of the underlying principles behind the main religions practiced in the UK they are less likely to be judgmental and intolerant of religions that they don't personally agree with. Without religious education, most people's view of religion would be from word of mouth and from the media (which is pretty biased in a lot of cases and cannot offer a truly neutral presentation of religion).

I disagree that religions are becoming irrelevant. The UK population represents a huge range of religious beliefs and globalisation means that we need to be able to interact with people around the world who may have different beliefs. Being aware and understanding of those beliefs is perhaps more important now than it has ever been. I would agree that the study of politics is important for developing politically and socially aware people who can engage in the political process (I study politics myself and can attest to how illuminating this is). However, I think religious education is also an important area of study and should be encouraged.

The principal difference between faith schools and attending church is that education is compulsory by law and going to church isn't. All children have to have an education and I believe religious indoctrination should not be a part of that regardless of whether or not a child's parents can afford to send their children to a private school.

Reply 18

Comus

I think it depends, if the "faith" element is limited to a quick prayer at the end of assemblies that nobody really pays attention to, or perhaps a boisterously sung carol near religious festivals, that's perfectly okay but religion shouldn't be a factor in the admissions process, there should be no "fire and brimstone" style indoctrination and religion should have no impact on the curriculum. In summary, while I don't yet see the need for an outright ban, I do think the power of faith schools should be limited.