Alonso>Hamilton>Vettel>Rosberg

Doob

/thread

Reply 1

Motorbiker

21

I'd agree with Alonso and Rosberg but Hamilton and Vettel are probably equal and fairly close to Alonso. .

Reply 2

username234673

17

This is a compelling argument.

Reply 3

mccrae01

18

Everyone in F1 should have the same car - then we would see who the best driver actually is - until then i agree with you ( although Alonso is only marginally better than Lewis :wink:

Reply 4

username234673

17

Original post by mccrae01

Everyone in F1 should have the same car - then we would see who the best driver actually is - until then i agree with you ( although Alonso is only marginally better than Lewis :wink:

That's called GP2, GP3, IndyCar, AutoGP etc... There are plenty of spec series already. F1 doesn't need to be a spec series. Half the fun of F1 is the engineering side of it.

Reply 5

mccrae01

18

Original post by mikeyd85

That's called GP2, GP3, IndyCar, AutoGP etc... There are plenty of spec series already. F1 doesn't need to be a spec series. Half the fun of F1 is the engineering side of it.

I disagree - whilst its been great to see the 2 Mercedes cars going head to head this year , it would be so much better if everyone had the same car so more drivers would be going toe to toe. They could even introduce a ballast system like they use in the BTCC to spice things up and encourage overtaking. The current system looks ok when you get a season like this one where the two drivers in the good car are both really strong and can get a bit of rivalry going , but on the other hand you can end up with seasons like last couple where only one of the drivers has been good ( Vettel) and has run away with the title.

Reply 6

username234673

17

Original post by mccrae01

I disagree - whilst its been great to see the 2 Mercedes cars going head to head this year , it would be so much better if everyone had the same car so more drivers would be going toe to toe.

But that's not the point of F1. Yes, it would be closer racing, but it wouldn't be F1. The same could be said for LMP cars, GT cars, MotoGP bikes... whatever, it doesn't matter. We have some fixed spec motorsports and some more open spec sports. That variety, entrenched in the open class, is a crucial part of F1's history .

Original post by mccrae01

They could even introduce a ballast system like they use in the BTCC to spice things up and encourage overtaking

That again, whilst makes for good racing, is not F1. It's fake, just as (the thankfully less over-powered-this-year) DRS is. I would only put ballast in F1 in order to ensure that the driver is a minimum weight, thus allowing tall people to be on a level playing field.

Original post by mccrae01

The current system looks ok when you get a season like this one where the two drivers in the good car are both really strong and can get a bit of rivalry going , but on the other hand you can end up with seasons like last couple where only one of the drivers has been good ( Vettel) and has run away with the title.

Vettel only really ran away with 2 or his 4 championships - of which 2011 was arguably because McLaren couldn't organise themselves at all and threw away points like they were going out of fashion. 09 was an interesting season, 08 and 07 were both won by a single point.

Reply 7

mccrae01

18

Original post by mikeyd85

But that's not the point of F1. Yes, it would be closer racing, but it wouldn't be F1. The same could be said for LMP cars, GT cars, MotoGP bikes... whatever, it doesn't matter. We have some fixed spec motorsports and some more open spec sports. That variety, entrenched in the open class, is a crucial part of F1's history .

The separate teams would still exist , so you would still get that variety , but giving all the teams the same car would help save costs as well. It would still be a team sport as tactics would play a key role and of course it would be up to the teams to ensure the reliability of the car. I would argue that F1 is the best drivers going head to head against each other and has very little to do with the different performance levels of the cars. Back in the beginning when it was different car manufactuers competing against each other the teams performance levels were much more important because the winner would get a lot of public respect ( hence Ferrari's reputation ) but nowadays a lot of the teams aren't even car manufacturers ( Williams, Sauber, Red Bull, Torro Rosso, Force India, Marussia) so this doesn't matter - sports have to evolve to move with the times as well.

That again, whilst makes for good racing, is not F1. It's fake, just as (the thankfully less over-powered-this-year) DRS is. I would only put ballast in F1 in order to ensure that the driver is a minimum weight, thus allowing tall people to be on a level playing field.

To be honest, ballast was probably a bad example for me to use. We probably need these kind of gimmicks to keep casual observers interested though even if the top drivers should be able to get past with a late braking maneuver or by slip-streaming.

Vettel only really ran away with 2 of his 4 championships - of which 2011 was arguably because McLaren couldn't organise themselves at all and threw away points like they were going out of fashion. 09 was an interesting season, 08 and 07 were both won by a single point.

Bit with a system of the same cars you are more likely to end up with that situation in more seasons though and ( so I don't get warned for going too off topic) means we would find out definitively who the best driver is.

Reply 8

Doob

OP

Original post by Motorbiker

I'd agree with Alonso and Rosberg but Hamilton and Vettel are probably equal and fairly close to Alonso. .

Vettel hasnt really proved his worth against any current top driver, Webber was on his way out, and he is currently getting an ass whooping by a rookie basically. Quite poor on his part, then he blames it on his car.

Hamilton hasn't managed to perform the feats that Alonso has in poor machinery, Vettel as stated above doesnt even come close to putting in solid performances in out-classed machinery like Alonso has for the past 3 years.

Reply 9

RoyalMarine

12

Lewis was better than FA in his first season with the same car,how can FA be faster?I'd say Lewis is the best,then FA.Then Ricciardo and Rosberg at the same level,then SV and Button and Bottas

Reply 10

YoungerHamii2014

9

Original post by RoyalMarine

Lewis was better than FA in his first season with the same car,how can FA be faster?I'd say Lewis is the best,then FA.Then Ricciardo and Rosberg at the same level,then SV and Button and Bottas

A driver who's quickest on raw pace doesn't mean that driver is the BEST, there's more to a driver than the speed they bring to the car, in fact I'd break down "speed" into speed over a single/qualifying lap, speed over a race distance and speed in mixed/wet conditions.

Other factors that ascertain a driver's quality are race craft, race starts, consistency - heck I'll even go as far as factoring their communication with their engineers and other personnel, as well as their dealings with the media. There's a reason why many regard Alonso as the most complete driver on the grid today, because he may excel at the very top in SOME of those factors but very much excels at a high enough level in ALL of them.

Reply 11

Kutta

19

I agree with the list, Alonso in a competitive car would be amazing!

Reply 12

drewBusby

12

Alonso = Hamilton > Rosberg > Ric > Vettel

You can't ignore that rookie Hamilton who beat Alonso, he forced Alonso to blackmail Ron Dennis in order to win. All he managed to do from this was lose Mclaren millions and lose his seat.

Alonso's average team-mates allow him to shine. Fresh Nelson Piquet/Romain Grosjean, Massa and Kimi who loses it towards the end of 2013 season.

Reply 13

Last Day Lepers

10

Original post by ROONEY-9-MUTD

Alonso = Hamilton > Rosberg > Ric > Vettel

You can't ignore that rookie Hamilton who beat Alonso, he forced Alonso to blackmail Ron Dennis in order to win. All he managed to do from this was lose Mclaren millions and lose his seat.

Alonso's average team-mates allow him to shine. Fresh Nelson Piquet/Romain Grosjean, Massa and Kimi who loses it towards the end of 2013 season.

Alonso =/= Hamilton.

Rosberg = Ric << Vettel = Hamilton << Alonso

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 14

username234673

17

Alonso showed why he's the best driver on the grid at Silverstone IMO. Overtaking Vettel on the outside of Copse was a sick move then keeping him behind for as long as he did with a slower car and worse tyres... Amazing! To be honest, it was fantastic driving by the pair of them. :yep:

Reply 15

Kenan and Kel

19

Original post by mikeyd85

Alonso showed why he's the best driver on the grid at Silverstone IMO. Overtaking Vettel on the outside of Copse was a sick move then keeping him behind for as long as he did with a slower car and worse tyres... Amazing! To be honest, it was fantastic driving by the pair of them. :yep:

It's like they knew Rosberg had run into problems and the pair of them had to keep the race interesting for the remainder. Went on for so many laps!

I don't think there's much to separate Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton. All three have their strengths and weaknesses. Alonso keeps a ridiculously high standard of driving no matter what car he's given. Hamilton is probably the best racer and one lap specialist. If everyone on the track had equal and flawless cars, Vettel would probably win the Championship because his concentration is immense and he hardly ever makes mistakes. If I had to choose: Alonso.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 16

Caedus

15

Vettel > Alonso > Hamilton > Rosberg

Reply 17

Arkasia

19

I found F1 pathetically boring this year. When two drivers end up 30 seconds ahead of everyone else after 15 laps every race, and win every race in 1st and 2nd places (barring mechanical failure), I fail to see the sportsmanship, fairness and interest in what is essentially a pointless exercise. Of course, because Hamilton is English, no-one seems to care that his success is due in large part to a massively superior car.

Reply 18

Jammy Duel

21

I think Hamilton showed on Saturday why he is far from the best: too complacent and not a very good sportsman. Tried to hold Rosberg up so he couldn't set another lap and likely being the reason that, correct me if I'm wrong, Perez didn't get an extra flying lap. Then was complacent enough to casually roll back into the pits when he was told to stop being a dick. If only everybody was on the track, get him down in 10th. Then he showed his maturity by becoming a teenager again and sulking.

The only reason he ended up winning is because his car is over a second a lap better than everybody else and his [superior] team mate was forced to retire. It seems to me that having been in [one of] the fastest car(s) for his whole career is the main reason why he has won anything, not due to being an incredible driver. Suppose in many respects he is like Schumacher.

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