Jealous of what?
I can get the grades to get into a Uk medical/dental school so I dont have to go to a second world country to study - why on earth would I be jealous?
Would you want a complete dimwit who couldn't handle A levels because they were either too lazy or too stupid to be your doctor screening you for cancer? Or your dentist drilling in your mouth?
I think not.

If costs are subsidised alongside, I'm all for it.

Reply 4

Freyr

Original post by ando181

Just because they aren't as book smart doesn't mean they won't make good doctors. While I think it's easy get A's, not everyone does, and for example, graduate entry medicine you can completely tank your a levels, go to the crappat university in the country, and scrape a 2.1 (or 2.2 in some places) and still get admitted into medicine.
One would argue that getting a 2.1 at the worst university is far easier than t top universities, but in the eyes of medical schools, it's the same.
So like I was saying, they could have other things to offer to the profession. And to be honest, if I wasn't book smart, but I wanted to be a doctor, and my parents could afford to pay my tuition, I probably wouldn't get work exp (if I didn't need it) and I'd go for European schools.
It is a little unfair for others who can't afford it, but that's life, you deal with it

Reply 5

kkboyk

So what you're saying is that every other medical school in the EU are pathetic?

Reply 6

username1465903

Original post by kkboyk

So what you're saying is that every other medical school in the EU are pathetic?

I dont know about the quality of the medical/dental schools although I do assume that a second world country such as bulgaria may not be as good a place to study medicine or dentistry
I do think the entry requirements are pathetic and I do think it would be pathetic if EU grads were given just as much priority as UK grads when it comes to securing foundation places.
They've changed it for dentistry and quite rightly so.

Reply 7

Becca-Sarah

Frankly I'd be more concerned about the rise of private medical schools within the UK - Bucks starts this September and Aston is trying to follow. UK grads have a minor advantage over EU grads in understanding the UK system when it comes to getting a good SJT score and therefore do better at getting foundation jobs - private UK grads will be on the same footing as other UK grads in this respect but will have paid their way in.

Reply 8

teen1234

Original post by Becca-Sarah

Bucks tried to open a dental school and got rejected by the GDC, not sure why the GMC don't care.
Although, from what I've read, the schools are aimed at international students.
Btw, I didn't know aston's was going to be a private school?

Reply 9

Zorg

While I don't agree with the rich buying their way in, neither do I require a certain number of UCAS tariff points from my GP. I'd judge them by a lot more than what their mindset was at the age of 17, which in the vast majority of cases will be the best part of a decade before they start practicing.

Original post by teen1234

HEE recent proposals suggest a shift towards more international students, i.e. less DoH funding + more doctors = win.
Needless to say I disagree.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 10

Hippokrates

Original post by Becca-Sarah

I was under the impression that the courses were useless and that they wouldn't be allowed to practice in this country?

Reply 11

teen1234

Original post by Zorg

HEE recent proposals suggest a shift towards more international students, i.e. less DoH funding + more doctors = win.
Needless to say I disagree.

Well they cant fund more foundation places so that doesn't really matter all that much. I dread to think what happens to us docs and dentists if the NHS becomes private - I for one will open my own dental practise or join another. A reason why I chose dentistry was to not work for corporations and be an employee, thats not about to change!

Reply 12

teen1234

Original post by Hippokrates

I was under the impression that the courses were useless and that they wouldn't be allowed to practice in this country?

They are allowed to practise in the country. I think this is the general feeling amongst UK dental/medical students though, UK grads shouldn't lose places to EU grads. It would be a complete waste of taxpayer's money (150k per student)

Reply 13

M150

Current government policy of cutting numbers of places at medical school while complaining that there aren't enough doctors really concerns me. As well as the private medical schools that are now opening, I'm worried that the government has decided to train as few of their own doctors as possible and instead rely on the reputation of the NHS to attract doctors from elsewhere.

Personally, I think this is a very nasty way of doing things. You end up with a combination of the rich being able to buy their way into the profession at the expense of those who cannot afford to self fund (the government works out that they can get away without paying for the training and still getting the doctors they want so stops the funding) and as another major concern, countries that may be financially much worse off than the UK are paying to train the number of doctors that they need who then leave for a job elsewhere. It seems very exploitative to deliberately train less doctors than needed and expect fully trained professionals to turn up. This contributes to a worldwide shortage of doctors that results in the poorest countries not having enough medical staff.

I just want to point out that my problem is with current UK policy and not individuals who may have many reasons for choosing to train overseas.

Reply 14

LadyEcliptic

From what you are saying, if you don't get all As and all A* at a levels your going to be a **** doctor? If you that dreading I wouldn't want you to be my doctor - for all you know those who are getting all these grades could make crap doctors and are only in it for the prestige - I know a guy in my school who had top grades, got into medicine but he is nowhere near caring and has an incredibly short temper, I wouldn't want him to be my doctor - grades don't define your personality!

I dont think it is fair that if you are only doing it because your parents can pay it then yeah, but not a lot of people get into the UK so I admire anyone who is determined enough to have a go somewhere else.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 15

teen1234

Original post by M150

Seeing as though there are several reports of UK grads not getting foundation places, I wouldn't have thought there are too many doctors. Also, as far as im aware, a number of newly qualified doctors and dentists from the UK emigrate to new zealand and australia.
This may be a nasty way of doing things but for all we know it may be the only way. Privitising the NHS is seen as a solution but despite our wages as docs and dentists POSSIBLY rising, I'd leave the NHS if this were to happen.

Reply 16

teen1234

Original post by LadyEcliptic

There are plenty of medical and dental applicants who would make fine docs/dentists but dont get in. The point is that those who do qualify in the UK should be guaranteed foundation places in the UK.
Grades often show your determination and or intelligence, both of which required. Most people who go abroad went to public schools in the UK since they can afford it.
Im sorry, but if you go to a public school and you cant get AAA you're probably not cut out for medicine or dentistry

(edited 6 years ago)

Original post by ando181

A doctor or dentist has to be intelligent and determined, getting AAA is hardly a big ask. Do you know how difficult these two degrees are both academically and practically? If a dentist misses that someone may have oral cancer or your GP doesn't refer them to a specialist when you have cancer, the patient may die unnecessarily. The dentist could be a 25 year old.

Oh yes, doesn't matter if my doctor or dentist is incompetent, as long as they have a good personality I dont care :h:

idiot.

Lol at this last bit. What part of your Chemistry A level taught you to recognise oral cancer? The degrees are difficult and they should be what competency is measured by. Funnily enough I think the GMC follows that line of thought too.

Original post by teen1234

I think you're both missing the point. AAA to get in to medical school is one thing, to measure the quality of a doctor by their A level grades is another.
It doesn't take the smartest person to get AAA but you do have to put in some work which not everyone is mature enough to do at that age. Equally I've met people who have breezed first class degrees and don't have the social skills of a pin. The point is academia is only one aspect of a good doctor and A level grades are not the best indicator of ability.