Magaluf girl was born-again Christian!!
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Original post by MostUncivilised
You think it's acceptable that she (appears to have) sexually assaulted one of the lads?
Nice try, but that's obviously not the point I'm making. Not at any point have I mentioned sexual assault, as my argument is about whether or not people should be commenting on her sexual activity, and it's not anybody's place.
If you answer my question, I'll answer your irrelevant-to-anything-I've-said one!
Original post by AcronymOfHashtag
Well why is it acceptable for anybody to comment on what she does with her body? If people were outraged at the fact that she was actively encouraged and slightly coerced into it I'd understand, but if you don't think it's up to her whether she does this then who do you think should be able to make that decision?
I'm not saying I think it's responsible behaviour, and I'm also not saying it's something I agree with her doing but at the end of the day I'd rather be in her defence than join the plethora of apparent saints that are quick to call her a 'slut' or whatever.
If you do reply (as I hope you will) please answer the question of why it's anybody else's business.
I'm not saying I think it's responsible behaviour, and I'm also not saying it's something I agree with her doing but at the end of the day I'd rather be in her defence than join the plethora of apparent saints that are quick to call her a 'slut' or whatever.
If you do reply (as I hope you will) please answer the question of why it's anybody else's business.
Anyone can comment on anything,it's not illegal or socially-frowned upon.
And not every single person subscribes to the ultra-liberal doctrine you know...some people aren't keen on living in a society where this sort of thing is normalized,thus possibly increasing the chances of their own offspring engaging in such things.
As for why it should be anyone's business?Well,why not?It's harmful if you consider the degradation,STD-risk and also the fact that some guys were somewhat forced into it.Yeah it's her body and all,but certain things do raise concern.At the end of the day,slitting your wrists isn't hurting anyone-it's your body,but the attitude your're arguing that the public should take (i.e. ignore it,it's not your business) is not humane or healthy...And frankly, a uniformally-agreed upon moral code has worked for society ,far better than "do whatever" ever could.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by P357
Anyone can comment on anything,it's not illegal or socially-frowned upon.
And not every single person subscribes to the ultra-liberal doctrine you know...some people aren't keen on living in a society where this sort of thing is normalized,thus possibly increasing the chances of their own offspring engaging in such things.
As for why it should be anyone's business?Well,why not?It's harmful if you consider the degradation,STD-risk and also the fact that some guys were somewhat forced into it.Yeah it's her body and all,but certain things do raise concern.At the end of the day,slitting your wrists isn't hurting anyone-it's your body,but the attitude your're arguing that the public should take (i.e. ignore it,it's not your business) is not humane or healthy...And frankly, a uniformally-agreed upon moral code has worked for society ,far better than "do whatever" ever could.
And not every single person subscribes to the ultra-liberal doctrine you know...some people aren't keen on living in a society where this sort of thing is normalized,thus possibly increasing the chances of their own offspring engaging in such things.
As for why it should be anyone's business?Well,why not?It's harmful if you consider the degradation,STD-risk and also the fact that some guys were somewhat forced into it.Yeah it's her body and all,but certain things do raise concern.At the end of the day,slitting your wrists isn't hurting anyone-it's your body,but the attitude your're arguing that the public should take (i.e. ignore it,it's not your business) is not humane or healthy...And frankly, a uniformally-agreed upon moral code has worked for society ,far better than "do whatever" ever could.
Mate, this is so inane. Saying that this woman should be able to perform sex acts without having judgement passed on her isn't ultra liberal. I'm quite clearly not saying "do whatever". Also, this is rather different to ignoring somebody who has slit their wrists. That would obviously be a detrimental action, whereas it's neither hard nor negative to ignore a young girl having fun.
Original post by AcronymOfHashtag
Mate, this is so inane. Saying that this woman should be able to perform sex acts without having judgement passed on her isn't ultra liberal. I'm quite clearly not saying "do whatever". Also, this is rather different to ignoring somebody who has slit their wrists. That would obviously be a detrimental action, whereas it's neither hard nor negative to ignore a young girl having fun.
Mate,this is so absurd.Saying that this woman shouldn't have judgement passed on her after publicly sucking off 24 dudes whilst being filmed(and that's not just ANY sexual act) IS the very epitome of ultra-liberalism. Like I mean,you'd really struggle to argue otherwise. You're quite clearly saying "do whatever" if you genuinely believe that this girl is entitled to zero public criticism after such an act. I mean hey, is this sort of thing normal where you live?Would you be happy for your mother to have this sort of "fun"(gang-bang and filming included)?Regardless, I merely explained why the public was judging her-people don't want this thing normalized and accepted. This is the public showing defiance to such an act which,if history is anything to go by, will stop it from becoming socially-accepted to a large extent.
As for slitting ones wrists-well,I had self-harm in mind actually but either way- yes it's harmful just as degrading yourself that way is.She clearly had tremendous issues to do that.I'm female myself and I guarantee you that a 20-odd gang-bang is not the general idea of "fun". But okay,suppose I go along with it,and maybe she's just heavily twisted.Why shouldn't people judge? There have been many weird fetishes identified (from eating people,to killing them,to passing on stds etc etc)-i've no doubt the fetishists are having "fun" but people are perfectly entitled to not approve of them.
Original post by AcronymOfHashtag
as my argument is about whether or not people should be commenting on her sexual activity
If her sexual activity includes a sexual assault, we are more than justified in commenting on it. And frankly, we are justified in judging her anyway.
This is not "sexual activity behind closed doors between consenting adults", which is the usual measure by which we say one shouldn't judge.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by P357
.I'm female myself and I guarantee you that a 20-odd gang-bang is not the general idea of "fun". But okay,suppose I go along with it,and maybe she's just heavily twisted.Why shouldn't people judge?.
If it was just engaging in gangbangs behind closed doors, I certainly wouldn't be judging her.
It's the fact that;
(1) She didn't it in a public bar, for goodness sake
(2) She did it for payment, not for the fun of sex. She clearly wasn't doing it for the enjoyment of these fella's penises
(3) She appears to have sexually assaulted one of the lads.
We are perfectly justified in judging and publicly condemning an act that would have shamed the Whore of Babylon
Good luck finding a job, slut. Too bad the video doesn't show the guys' faces, they'd deserve shaming, too. Oh and why the **** would any guy hold his dick there though, literally being sucked off by someone who just had a dozen other dicks in her mouth...would be so funny if one of the first guys had herpes or something.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by P357
Mate,this is so absurd.Saying that this woman shouldn't have judgement passed on her after publicly sucking off 24 dudes whilst being filmed(and that's not just ANY sexual act) IS the very epitome of ultra-liberalism. Like I mean,you'd really struggle to argue otherwise. You're quite clearly saying "do whatever" if you genuinely believe that this girl is entitled to zero public criticism after such an act. I mean hey, is this sort of thing normal where you live?Would you be happy for your mother to have this sort of "fun"(gang-bang and filming included)?Regardless, I merely explained why the public was judging her-people don't want this thing normalized and accepted. This is the public showing defiance to such an act which,if history is anything to go by, will stop it from becoming socially-accepted to a large extent.
As for slitting ones wrists-well,I had self-harm in mind actually but either way- yes it's harmful just as degrading yourself that way is.She clearly had tremendous issues to do that.I'm female myself and I guarantee you that a 20-odd gang-bang is not the general idea of "fun". But okay,suppose I go along with it,and maybe she's just heavily twisted.Why shouldn't people judge? There have been many weird fetishes identified (from eating people,to killing them,to passing on stds etc etc)-i've no doubt the fetishists are having "fun" but people are perfectly entitled to not approve of them.
As for slitting ones wrists-well,I had self-harm in mind actually but either way- yes it's harmful just as degrading yourself that way is.She clearly had tremendous issues to do that.I'm female myself and I guarantee you that a 20-odd gang-bang is not the general idea of "fun". But okay,suppose I go along with it,and maybe she's just heavily twisted.Why shouldn't people judge? There have been many weird fetishes identified (from eating people,to killing them,to passing on stds etc etc)-i've no doubt the fetishists are having "fun" but people are perfectly entitled to not approve of them.
You know what, I had a full argument written out to come back with, about freedom of choice etc, but **** it. Instead, I'll just say that this isn't anyone else's business, and if some random girl wants to suck a lot of dick, then let some random girl suck a lot of dick. I've SEEN far worse than this with my own eyes. She might have issues that have led her to doing this, but I reckon she was just on holiday and having a laugh, and never expected it to get this out of hand.
Also, being a female adds literally nothing to your argument. If this woman has infringed on your life (by which I mean, you've been subjected to her actions that actively hurt or upset you) then you have the right to complain and judge. If it hasn't, then it really is none of your business.
Maybe her parents are religious in the sense that they go to church every once in a while, that doesnt mean that they've actually made any attempt to raise their daughter religiously. Would genuinely religious parents allow their daughter to go to Malaguf? I doubt it. I think it sounds more like the parents trying to divert attention away from their complete parenting failure in all honesty.
Anyway, this girl is just the tip of the iceberg. What about the thousands of others who disgrace themselves every week, are they rebelling against religion too? I dont see many Muslim girls acting in the same manner incidentally, and one would expect an even greater backlash against that upbringing. In all honesty they're just working class kids who are the product of a society in which everything goes, in which the media have gradually chipped away at the very idea that certain behaviour is just not right. When is it not fashionable to sneer at 'middle England Daily Mail readers' in 2014. The moral authority has almost entirely shifted towards relativism and moral ambiguity.
Somewhere inbetween terrible parenting, feminists etc destroying the very concept of modesty and 21 century Geordie Shore mass culture you have a generation of people who actually dont know any better. People who struggle to string a coherent sentence together since they were never shamed into learning coherent(and employable English) or who consider sucking 24 dicks on a nightclub floor to be an acceptable night out.
I have no idea if anybody actually wanted this free for all or not, but any society which has the very concept of 'slut walks' was always going to end up here. Chav culture, educational failure, dumbing down of society generally, it was the inevitable result of the left dismantling the previous, self- responsible culture with a concept of absolute right and wrong and replacing it with this free for all. Middle/Upper class families can keep it together, but many working class families never had a hope and it is their daughters who find themselves living these sorts of lives.
Sadly we're way too far down the line at this stage, the old culture is alive in good families but very few of these are working class families. The media have no interest in anything but propagating the crap they do and those in government/media are very much products of the 1960s themselves who cant even see the problem in this madness. This underclass is here to stay.
Anyway, this girl is just the tip of the iceberg. What about the thousands of others who disgrace themselves every week, are they rebelling against religion too? I dont see many Muslim girls acting in the same manner incidentally, and one would expect an even greater backlash against that upbringing. In all honesty they're just working class kids who are the product of a society in which everything goes, in which the media have gradually chipped away at the very idea that certain behaviour is just not right. When is it not fashionable to sneer at 'middle England Daily Mail readers' in 2014. The moral authority has almost entirely shifted towards relativism and moral ambiguity.
Somewhere inbetween terrible parenting, feminists etc destroying the very concept of modesty and 21 century Geordie Shore mass culture you have a generation of people who actually dont know any better. People who struggle to string a coherent sentence together since they were never shamed into learning coherent(and employable English) or who consider sucking 24 dicks on a nightclub floor to be an acceptable night out.
I have no idea if anybody actually wanted this free for all or not, but any society which has the very concept of 'slut walks' was always going to end up here. Chav culture, educational failure, dumbing down of society generally, it was the inevitable result of the left dismantling the previous, self- responsible culture with a concept of absolute right and wrong and replacing it with this free for all. Middle/Upper class families can keep it together, but many working class families never had a hope and it is their daughters who find themselves living these sorts of lives.
Sadly we're way too far down the line at this stage, the old culture is alive in good families but very few of these are working class families. The media have no interest in anything but propagating the crap they do and those in government/media are very much products of the 1960s themselves who cant even see the problem in this madness. This underclass is here to stay.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by AcronymOfHashtag
You know what, I had a full argument written out to come back with, about freedom of choice etc, but **** it. Instead, I'll just say that this isn't anyone else's business
If she didn't want it to be anyone else's business, she should have done it behind closed doors like a normal person.
This has nothing to do with the sex acts per se, and you know it. I know you desperately want to legitimate this act (for what reason I don't know, you clearly have something to prove). This has everything to do with the fact it was in a public bar, it was for payment, and involved a seemingly non-consenting partner.
Society is within its rights to shame one of the most publicly promiscuous acts since the Emperor Claudius' wife Messalina invited a prostitute into the Imperial Palace to compete with her to see who could be ****ed by the most men.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by AcronymOfHashtag
You know what, I had a full argument written out to come back with, about freedom of choice etc, but **** it. Instead, I'll just say that this isn't anyone else's business, and if some random girl wants to suck a lot of dick, then let some random girl suck a lot of dick. I've SEEN far worse than this with my own eyes. She might have issues that have led her to doing this, but I reckon she was just on holiday and having a laugh, and never expected it to get this out of hand.
What you need to understand is that literally NO ONE is planning on persecuting this girl for what she did-there's no witch-hunt,she's not getting arrested.As far as that goes,she DOES do what she wants. But people DO NOT WANT for this sort of thing to become socially standardized,hence the judgement.These two are very different and you need to realize that. This girl has freedom of choice and she used it. So do other people -they can choose to condemn that action so that it is not normalized at large.See,when I made a reference to you being ultra-liberal I was actually referring to the doctrine that some people subscribe to,in that nothing anyone does affects anyone else. I reject that,you live within society and there has never been any community at any point in time that hasn't had a uniform set of values,however small it may have been. In this case,the large social majority doesn't approve of publicly sucking off 24 dudes in one night at the same time.The disapproval you see right here is the reenactment of that value that the majority agree with.It is NOT persecution of her freedom of choice.There's a difference.
Original post by AcronymOfHashtag
Also, being a female adds literally nothing to your argument. If this woman has infringed on your life (by which I mean, you've been subjected to her actions that actively hurt or upset you) then you have the right to complain and judge. If it hasn't, then it really is none of your business.
I meant that in the sense that it isn't the most common amongst us girls/women to want this sort of thing so it's clearly a fetish she and a minority have. I'm only saying that publicly sucking off 24 dudes at the same time can be criticized just as the fetish of passing on STDS(yes that is legit).She,like creepy fetishists,can't claim that it's her human right to NOT be criticized.
Original post by That Bearded Man
Northern Irish people aren't British, they can't be. They can be either Irish or a member of the United Kingdom.
Are you accusing men from Belfast of drinking a lot?
Are you accusing men from Belfast of drinking a lot?
No, you are incorrect.
A British citizen is a citizen of the UK. Therefore, people from Northern Ireland are British. (They can of course be Irish as well due to the dual nationality thing they have in Northern Ireland.) They are not, however, from Great Britain.
see here: https://www.gov.uk/check-british-citizen
Original post by Chief Wiggum
No, you are incorrect.
A British citizen is a citizen of the UK. Therefore, people from Northern Ireland are British. (They can of course be Irish as well due to the dual nationality thing they have in Northern Ireland.) They are not, however, from Great Britain.
see here: https://www.gov.uk/check-british-citizen
A British citizen is a citizen of the UK. Therefore, people from Northern Ireland are British. (They can of course be Irish as well due to the dual nationality thing they have in Northern Ireland.) They are not, however, from Great Britain.
see here: https://www.gov.uk/check-british-citizen
So to have citizenship doesn't require a passport?
Original post by MostUncivilised
I agree with that, in the sense that you are a British citizen, but I think there's a difference between being a British citizen and a Briton. All citizens of the UK are British citizens. However, British citizens are divided into Britons and Irish.
Only in your head. No-one else thinks that.
Perhaps you think this rather peculiar system would be more consistent or something (for my part, I think it's gobbledygook) - whether that is true or not, it remains something entirely of your own invention.
Original post by ClickItBack
As I said in the other thread, she was pretty clearly NOT drunk to the point of obviating personal control (in that she was compos mentis to the point of being capable of running around all over the damn club with military precision). Please stop insinuating that her decision making capabilities were so compromised that it was the 'evil men' who were forcing her into doing this, rather than a dumb 18 year old doing something dumb 18 year olds do (well, rather worse than most dumb 18 year olds do, but - outrageous number aside - stuff like this happens every day in Magaluf/Ibiza).
I am amazed also that you and some other women won't spare a moment's compassion for the guys who were very clearly reluctant to get their junk out but were forced to by their mates and the girl herself. As I said in the other thread, spin this around the other way and the girl would probably be facing charges of sexual assault.
I am amazed also that you and some other women won't spare a moment's compassion for the guys who were very clearly reluctant to get their junk out but were forced to by their mates and the girl herself. As I said in the other thread, spin this around the other way and the girl would probably be facing charges of sexual assault.
I am not saying the girl is blameless, I am saying that comment on this is overwhelmingly targeted towards the girl and it should be more balanced. I wasn't insinuating anything about the 'evil men', and I know full well that some of the men were clearly under a lot of pressure, in which case the mates goading them on should shoulder some of the blame. There is the undisputed fact, however, that there were 24 guys and 1 girl, which makes it highly suspect that she should be considered the sole sexual aggressor.
As for sexual assault, I'm not going to comment on that, simply because I don't think it's wise to try and judge something like that from grainy video footage. Although I do agree that if it was a guy assault charges would be more likely.
That is irresponsible and disgusting. If it were a safe gangbang behind closed doors without anyone being pressured or forced into it, it would be a different story, but it happened in public with 24 unknown dicks. She has to get some self-respect, the ringleader needs to get some restraint and learn to respect others. I'm not going to watch it because it sounds vile.
Original post by That Bearded Man
So to have citizenship doesn't require a passport?
I wouldn't have thought that you required a passport to have citizenship of a country.
Original post by That Bearded Man
Northern Irish people aren't British, they can't be. They can be either Irish or a member of the United Kingdom.
Are you accusing men from Belfast of drinking a lot?
Are you accusing men from Belfast of drinking a lot?
youre getting in dangerous territory there man...
as ive explained before..many in ni believe themselves to be british
just like many believe themselves to be irish even tho theyre technically not in ireland
besides whats the dfifference between UK citizen and british or even irish!!!
it was still one of us..not that she did anything majorly wrong
god wouldnt wana hang around with yee guys anytime soon
Original post by MostUncivilised
Are you kidding me? You wouldn't mind then if your Mum or your sister was a prostitute? I'm not saying it should be outlawed, I'm not saying we should be mean to them. But it's very strange that you'd tell your daughter it's a perfectly acceptable career choice
The lads are not just as bad. They would be as bad if they licked 24 vaginas for a drink. They engaged in one lewd sexual act in a public bar. She engaged in 24. And she did so for payment, it's clear she's not even enjoying it. This has nothing to do with being prudish (as much as you seem to want to make it about that). If she did it behind closed doors, I wouldn't have any objections. I'd even say, you go girl.
You keep asking what's wrong with this act, are you saying it's okay to engage in sex acts in public places?
Furthermore, she is clearly far worse given she may have engaged in a sexual assault on one of the men. One of the men is held by his mates, they pull down his trousers. She is impatient and barks at him, "Get it out, hurry up". You keep conveniently ignoring that
What are you talking about? I've seen the video, she's not legless. She's not even heavily drunk.
You (and others on this thread) seem to repeatedly dodge the issue of her possibly sexually assaulting one of the men. I wonder why that is?
The lads are not just as bad. They would be as bad if they licked 24 vaginas for a drink. They engaged in one lewd sexual act in a public bar. She engaged in 24. And she did so for payment, it's clear she's not even enjoying it. This has nothing to do with being prudish (as much as you seem to want to make it about that). If she did it behind closed doors, I wouldn't have any objections. I'd even say, you go girl.
You keep asking what's wrong with this act, are you saying it's okay to engage in sex acts in public places?
Furthermore, she is clearly far worse given she may have engaged in a sexual assault on one of the men. One of the men is held by his mates, they pull down his trousers. She is impatient and barks at him, "Get it out, hurry up". You keep conveniently ignoring that
What are you talking about? I've seen the video, she's not legless. She's not even heavily drunk.
You (and others on this thread) seem to repeatedly dodge the issue of her possibly sexually assaulting one of the men. I wonder why that is?
if she was doing it in her own free will no...its her life its not my place to dictate her sex life...Im here for my family not like yourself clearly... the bad side of that would be people like you making my family outcasts as a result of it.having an active sex pattern isnt a problem with me...people getting their noses in it is.go annoy the criminals or the drugees if you must but leave them alone for gods sake.
the lads were up for it....I dont see the difference.its like saying killing 24 people is on a different scale to killing one person.they both killed people.both going to jail for a very long time.again..everyone makes mistakes...thats perhaps the natures of the clubs out there.I really dont see the big issue.
it was a club not some street.theres far worse things.it shouldnt be advised...but when people make mistakes..people shouldnt be so hard on them.
I already said I appreciate that she may have.the lads who forced his pants down played a huge role in that too.it is often not in lads mentality to sue someone over stuff like that unless his face was shown.
again you dont know!! some people dont look drunk when they are drunk.some people get drunk quick.some people..the drink goes to their head but their bodies continue to be stable.maybe she wasnt drunk at all..its still the same scenairo.people do stupid things at home and abroad.unless the lad who was sexually assaulted sees it that way there was no harm done
****ing lol at some of the comments on The Guardian article... are these people serious?
"Shocking and sad spectacle. Are we allowed to say that this 18-year-old is a victim? Because that's exactly what she is.
This is not some sexually emancipated woman. This is a victim of sexual exploitation who was put at a significant health risk by by being manipulated into doing an activity for which she did not give informed consent."
"Shocking and sad spectacle. Are we allowed to say that this 18-year-old is a victim? Because that's exactly what she is.
This is not some sexually emancipated woman. This is a victim of sexual exploitation who was put at a significant health risk by by being manipulated into doing an activity for which she did not give informed consent."
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