why is there so much injustice in the world?

Original post by Genocidal

Lots of bleeding hearts in this thread. Better get used to it.

Better not. There's nothing inevitable about it and the history of (at least) the West proves this. We've become far better in many respects and we can be even better.

Reply 23

Original post by felamaslen

Practically the entire continent of Europe, minus the far east of it (Ukraine, Belarus etc.) lives in peace and order. Some of East Asia lives in peace and order. North America lives in peace and order. Some of South America lives in peace and order. Australia and New Zealand live in peace and order.

All of these places were once violent cess pits (well, maybe not New Zealand). The entire human history of the past few centuries has been precisely about changing the world to be a more peaceable, tolerant and free place, and it has been largely successful (minus the 20th century bloodbath).

Theres roughly 2 million violent crimes in Britain every year. So, its not that peaceful and orderly is it? In fact, Britain is a far less peaceful and orderly place than what it was 50 years ago, so things are getting worse.

People don't have to put up with it, and theres absolutely zero point trying to do something about it because everybody has an opinion. All like minded people can do is get together and form separate communities while everybody else argues.

The Amish have virtually ZERO crime. If the Amish can do it, so can anyone else.

Reply 24

Original post by Tyrion_Lannister

It's funny you say this, I've always wanted to build my own Island full of good people

Well, that makes two of us. If we can get another few dozen people together we may have something to work with. :smile:

Reply 25

Rakas21

21

Original post by p.formanko

okay, so I'm not usually a pessimist, but in the past few days and weeks current events have really gotten to me - areas where injustice has happened in all areas of society.

Anyone hear about the US cop who pushed a disabled person in a wheelchair into the road, even though they weren't carrying a firearm? or the one who saw a woman in the middle of the highway, proceeded to pin her down onto the ground and punch her repeatedly in the face even though she was defenceless?

Or perhaps closer to home - Rolf Harris being imprisoned for not even six years? Jimmy Saville anyone?

Or in Israel - where the whole nation is in uproar over the murder of 3 Jewish teens in Palestine, yet almost no attention is paid to the murder of a Palestinian boy in Israel only a day later, what most would assume was an act of revenge?

I'm not trying to draw in philosophy, religion, politics etc into this, and the above are mere examples. Where has it all gone wrong as a global community, where women are stoned for sleeping with men they love, and men are held in places like Guantanamo, sometimes for decades, without a trial?

The world as a whole has made slow progress, especially since WW2.

With that being said the simple reason for your question is that it is human nature.

Humans are brilliant, creative and often have the best of intentions... But they are also selfish, greedy and violent.

There are people who are more of the first group but socialist especially wildly overestimate the number, the masses are certainly the later kind.

Reply 26

Original post by imtelling

Theres roughly 2 million violent crimes in Britain every year. So, its not that peaceful and orderly is it? In fact, Britain is a far less peaceful and orderly place than what it was 50 years ago, so things are getting worse.

People don't have to put up with it, and theres absolutely zero point trying to do something about it because everybody has an opinion. All like minded people can do is get together and form separate communities while everybody else argues.

The Amish have virtually ZERO crime. If the Amish can do it, so can anyone else.

Crime has fallen since the 80s. Granted, it's not a huge difference but we're certainly not worse off than we were 30 years ago. Same is true for everyone else in Europe.

And I do not consider the 50s to have been a better period. What counted as crime then was mainly theft or murder. Rape was widely underreported and many crimes today, e.g. racially motivated crimes, went completely unrecorded. Same for abuse of women in marriage and so on.

Reply 27

felamaslen

15

Original post by imtelling

Theres roughly 2 million violent crimes in Britain every year. So, its not that peaceful and orderly is it? In fact, Britain is a far less peaceful and orderly place than what it was 50 years ago, so things are getting worse.

People don't have to put up with it, and theres absolutely zero point trying to do something about it because everybody has an opinion. All like minded people can do is get together and form separate communities while everybody else argues.

The Amish have virtually ZERO crime. If the Amish can do it, so can anyone else.

True, violent crime has got worse since the 60s, but it's not that terrible really, is it. You can walk down the street and not expect to get stabbed or shot or mugged in most areas. As long as you're sensible and don't hang around with the wrong people in Britain, you can live a peaceful life. When miscarriages of justice do occur, they're national scandals and everybody condemns them (e.g. the Hillsborough scandal, or Stephen Lawrence, etc.).

Reply 28

Original post by Cornelius

Crime has fallen since the 80s. Granted, it's not a huge difference but we're certainly not worse off than we were 30 years ago. Same is true for everyone else in Europe.

And I do not consider the 50s to have been a better period. What counted as crime then was mainly theft or murder. Rape was widely underreported and many crimes today, e.g. racially motivated crimes, went completely unrecorded. Same for abuse of women in marriage and so on.

In 1900 there were 2.4 indictable offences per thousand population and by the turn of the century it was almost a hundred. Yes, crime has supposedly come down to 80's levels ( although thats debatable because of the way government try and fudge stats ) but, 80's levels of crime were still far higher than what was seen in the 50's.

if you look at the graph, crime rates were stable and then started to dramatically increase around 1960: ( page 14 )

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons/lib/research/rp99/rp99-111.pdf

Britain is far more violent place than it was in 1950, and even 1900, which was still the Victorian period.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 29

Original post by felamaslen

True, violent crime has got worse since the 60s, but it's not that terrible really, is it. You can walk down the street and not expect to get stabbed or shot or mugged in most areas. As long as you're sensible and don't hang around with the wrong people in Britain, you can live a peaceful life. When miscarriages of justice do occur, they're national scandals and everybody condemns them (e.g. the Hillsborough scandal, or Stephen Lawrence, etc.).

It doesn't change the fact that 2 million violent crimes take place every year. That decent, ordinary people, still have to endure levels of crime that would have been unimaginable just a few decades ago.

But it not just crime. Its the trash popular culture. Its the dumbed down society. Its the breakdown of values and binding tradition. Its the atomisation and deracination of the individual. Its the urbanisation of the living environment. Its the hyper materialistic, consumerist mindset. Its the corporatist, capitalist economy which sees people not as human beings, but interchangeable economic units.....

Basically, what i am suggesting is that if you want to escape this, you are not going to have much luck trying to change it. All you can do is remove yourself from it and start again.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 30

Maura Kat

Original post by p.formanko

Or perhaps closer to home - Rolf Harris being imprisoned for not even six years? Jimmy Saville anyone?

yes. always start from home first.
this is just right off my mind from memory.

1) poverty and unemployment rates in UK still high
2) UK still in the EU and paying £55 million a day into the Union
3) lousy NHS doctors which see unnecessary deaths of patients
4) food banks in UK not being given enough help
5) election of police commissioners are linked to political party allegiance, poor turnout of voters and wasting tons of taxpayers money
6) massive cuts to the number of teachers and police officers
7) substandard quality of teachers in schools
8) parliament Question Time every Wednesday looks like a comedy
9) high STI rates and abortions among teens
10) massive cuts to legal aid budget

the list goes on and on.
tbh I'm not sure if she'll recover from her slump in my lifetime.
i guess not.

Reply 31

Original post by imtelling

In 1900 there were 2.4 indictable offences per thousand population and by the turn of the century it was almost a hundred. Yes, crime has supposedly come down to 80's levels ( although thats debatable because of the way government try and fudge stats ) but, 80's levels of crime were still far higher than what was seen in the 50's.

if you look at the graph, crime rates were stable and then started to dramatically increase around 1960: ( page 14 )

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons/lib/research/rp99/rp99-111.pdf

Britain is far more violent place than it was in 1950, and even 1900, which was still the Victorian period.

From your own source:

The British Crime Survey estimates unreported crime; in 1997
56% of crimes were not reported to the police. In earlier years,
this figure was probably higher and accounts for some of the
increase.

And again the number of indictable offences increasing means among other things (including the fact mentioned above - that we've become far better at reporting crime in more in recent years than in the 50s), as I said, that we have recognised some behaviours as being indictable. The 50s was more peaceful in paper 'cos people, short of murder and theft, didn't recognise any other behaviour as being indictable. You could be a racist, misogynistic prick and nobody could indict you for that.

Reply 32

Original post by Cornelius

From your own source:

The British Crime Survey estimates unreported crime; in 1997
56% of crimes were not reported to the police. In earlier years,
this figure was probably higher and accounts for some of the
increase.

And again the number of indictable offences increasing means among other things (including the fact mentioned above - that we've become far better at reporting crime in more in recent years than in the 50s), as I said, that we have recognised some behaviours as being indictable. The 50s was more peaceful in paper 'cos people, short of murder and theft, didn't recognise any other behaviour as being indictable. You could be a racist, misogynistic prick and nobody could indict you for that.

Murder rates, rapes rate, violent crime rates, home invasions, robbery.....all dramatically up from the 50's. yes, there may be a few more indictable offences, but the the most serious crimes are all dramatically up from the levels seen in the 50's.

Britain is completely different country than it was in the 50's, so of course things are going to be different. you can't fundamentally change a society and not expect that society to fundamentally change. Yes, some things have improved, namely technology, but the moral character of the country has degenerated dramatically.

Reply 33