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Bakery refuses to make "gay cake"; faces legal action

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Soon enough, bureaucrats will be knocking at my door and telling me that I only seem to have white heterosexual friends. This simply won't do in our diverse society. The government orders you to get 5 black friends and 3 homosexual friends in 1 year.

Sounds ridiculous? Sorry, but this bakery case is yet another example of how homosexuality is being showed down the throats of everyone. Everyone needs to accept it and liberals watch with glee, as private business owners are punished for daring to have ideas that do not tow the party line.

There is no freedom of association in this country. Gay advocates promised that this sort of ideological barrage would never happen, yet here we are, witnessing a witch-hunt against business owners who dare to uphold their values. Liberals being liberals I guess.
Original post by Radicalathiest
Pro Gay Marriage

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-28206581

'"still is defined as being a union between one man and one woman" and said his company was taking "a stand".'

'"It certainly was at odds with what the Bible teaches, and on the following Monday we rang the customer to let him know that we couldn't take his order."'

as you have said (and I agree) this will be an interesting case but give what I know about how the law works they will lose this one as they will have discriminated against the couple.


Just because something (such as gay marriage) is considered pro-gay, doesn't mean that disagreeing with it is anti-gay. This is why I explained previously about the reasons that some Christians oppose gay marriage. There is a fundamental disagreement in this debate about what marriage is, and under the orthodox Christian conception it cannot, by virtue of biology, pertain to same-sex relationships. Both sides often ignore this fundamental disagreement and end up arguing at cross purposes.

Regardless of whether the views of certain Christians are homophobic or not, however, the bakers have not discriminated against the customer. I'm not sure what knowledge of how the law works you're referencing, because the sole legal source you have provided so far doesn't support your point. I speak as a law graduate.

If the bakers do lose this case, then I would expect the decision to be appealed. As another poster has said, the logic which the claimant is espousing in this case is absurd. We may not like the bakers' views, but that doesn't mean they have done anything illegal.
da ****? It's their bakery they can do what ever they want. Weird that this is happening in UK. Would have thought you have more freedom in this country.

And I doubt anything would have happened if it was a Muslim bakery lmfao.
Original post by ChickenMadness
da ****? It's their bakery they can do what ever they want. Weird that this is happening in UK. Would have thought you have more freedom in this country.

And I doubt anything would have happened if it was a Muslim bakery lmfao.


The law doesn't work that way, I'm afraid.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/29

Original post by Three Mile Sprint
THIS AGAIN!?!?!?!

Argh, wasn't this principle just tested with the B&B judge who then went and admitted she was wrong in punishing the B&B owners?

No it is their business, they should have the right to refuse to serve anyone on any grounds be that sexuality, race, religion, hair color or they plain just don't like the look of em'.


See above.

If the judge expressed reservations about her decision, then it was probably on a more nuanced basis than your post suggests.
(edited 9 years ago)
Good. Imagine if this was a business run by gay people who refused to make a wedding cake for a straight couple. Or if they had refused to make a cake supporting the rights of black people to marry. Opposing equal rights for gay people is homophobia, and thankfully in this country homophobia is illegal.
Original post by TurboCretin
The law doesn't work that way, I'm afraid.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/29



See above.

If the judge expressed reservations about her decision, then it was probably on a more nuanced basis than your post suggests.


The law is wrong.
It's hypocritical more than anything in my mind. I mean most straight couples have sex before marriage, (it doesn't bother me personally, but many Christians feel this is against Christianity) yet they would be willing to bake a cake for them.
Original post by Three Mile Sprint
The law is wrong.


That may be your opinion, but that's a different argument.
Original post by yo radical one
It's hypocritical more than anything in my mind. I mean most straight couples have sex before marriage, (it doesn't bother me personally, but many Christians feel this is against Christianity) yet they would be willing to bake a cake for them.


You can't see devout Christian bakers objecting to making a cake which says "Sex before marriage is awesome!" across the top?

Another example of the difference between refusing to serve someone because of who they are, or what they do, and refusing to serve them because of what they are asking you to do.
Original post by TurboCretin
You can't see devout Christian bakers objecting to making a cake which says "Sex before marriage is awesome!" across the top?

Another example of the difference between refusing to serve someone because of who they are, or what they do, and refusing to serve them because of what they are asking you to do.


I do see your point actually

I mean a while back (as an example) a supermarket refused to make a cake with references to Nazism on it

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/warrenthrockmorton/2008/12/17/shoprite-refuses-to-inscribe-cake-for-child-named-after-adolf-hitler/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1096348/Parents-fury-supermarket-refuses-decorate-birthday-cake-childs--Adolf-Hitler-Campbell.html

Although I still feel that refusing the gay marriage request is slightly Scrooge-like, I guess we can hope that people boycott the business and they end up bankrupt.
Original post by TurboCretin
That may be your opinion, but that's a different argument.

The OP stated "What do you think?"

Of course I am stating my opinion, I am aware that it is at odds with the law..many opinions are.
The "discrimination" here is political, not personal.

Under the law, people should be able to support and reject any political agenda they please.

If the message was "support the BNP" and they refused, nobody would be complaining, so it shouldn't be any different to "support gay marriage". The two are simply expressions of political preference. In a society that values freedom of expression and freedom of thought, the two sentiments should have equivalent legal implications.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Saoirse:3
Good. Imagine if this was a business run by gay people who refused to make a wedding cake for a straight couple. Or if they had refused to make a cake supporting the rights of black people to marry. Opposing equal rights for gay people is homophobia, and thankfully in this country homophobia is illegal.


what would be wrong with that? Nothing lmao. People should be able to do business with who ever they want. Especially if it was a shop specifically aimed at gay people.
Original post by Three Mile Sprint
The OP stated "What do you think?"

Of course I am stating my opinion, I am aware that it is at odds with the law..many opinions are.


Oh, well fair enough. I assumed from the content of your post relating to the B&B case that you were making a statement about what the law is, rather than what it should be.

P.S. It is possible to express opinions about what the law requires.
(edited 9 years ago)
If a business does not happen to support one's political agenda, they shouldn't be forced into promoting that agenda. While I am wholly in support of gay marriage, I should't be able to force a private business into promoting my views with their product if they don't wish to.

This isn't about 'equality'; this is about freedom. Freedom to one's own political beliefs and to do business with whom one chooses.

Alternatively, what if a bakery refused to make a cake speaking against gay marriage? Would the government step in then? I doubt it.

EDIT: Furthermore, the client wasn't specifically refused because of their sexuality, just the message on the cake. Even from the existing legal standpoint, I don't think the bakery was beyond their rights.
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 155
Avatar for lucaf
lucaf
13
I imagine if I had asked them to bake that cake they would still refuse, even though I am straight, so they were not discriminating based on their sexuality. If they had been they would have refused to bake them any cake whatsoever just because they are gay, but that is not the case.
Original post by yo radical one
I do see your point actually

I mean a while back (as an example) a supermarket refused to make a cake with references to Nazism on it

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/warrenthrockmorton/2008/12/17/shoprite-refuses-to-inscribe-cake-for-child-named-after-adolf-hitler/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1096348/Parents-fury-supermarket-refuses-decorate-birthday-cake-childs--Adolf-Hitler-Campbell.html

Although I still feel that refusing the gay marriage request is slightly Scrooge-like, I guess we can hope that people boycott the business and they end up bankrupt.


It is Scroogey for sure. I don't agree with it, but I also wouldn't agree with them being compelled to perform a service which they do not wish to offer. And in this case it is certainly a question of the nature of the service they are being asked to provide, rather than who they are offering it to.
Original post by Radicalathiest
It's not

when faced with the reality of what some are saying though they soon back down



Radicalatheist you give me life!!!
Original post by ChickenMadness
what would be wrong with that? Nothing lmao. People should be able to do business with who ever they want. Especially if it was a shop specifically aimed at gay people.


If we lived in a world where there was no sexism, racism, homophobia etc that would make some sense. Unfortunately we don't, and therefore we need to provide protections so as to avoid businesses effectively having a license to employ the same hatred that would not be tolerated from individuals.
Original post by Radicalathiest
No I want equality

I want a world where people aren't discriminated against because they are gay or bisexual or black or asian or white

If it takes the law to achieve this because of a few bigoted faith heads then so be it

But 'propaganda' it was a wedding cake FFS

But is see from your user name you are a faith head so I'll ask you WWJD?


Equality is a complete fantasy.

That is a world which will never exist, and is merely a dream world. They had every right to deny service since they are a shop, and shops can deny service to customers.

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