Sales and Recruitment is the only thing available to Graduates

Original post by Quady

Thats a very broad definition...

If consultants just did sales, they wouldn't do any chargeable work.

So because I need some consultants to do some work for me, I'm in recruitment am I? In order to go out to market for them I needed to write a business case, oh am I in sales?

MPs are in sales then I guess?
And Tesco checkout assistants?
And my solicitor?
And my dentist?

If you read the spec

If you read the spec of a checkout assistant yes its sales. Btw you know solicitors firms tend to generate leads and business they have arm that does BDM work. Heres an example an accident management company with a law firm next to it, you might of had cold callers about a "road traffic accident", "personal injury claim". So terrible example, law firms get around certain regulations by having partner companies.

Let me rub it in more, you would of heard of freshfields right?

http://www9.i-grasp.com/fe/tpl_freshfields01.asp?newms=jj&id=32799

Straight from the website, what do these people do then? When he pitches he takes the solicitor with him,lol. People want to know what they are buying, all part of the sales process.

As for dentists heres an example of a practice,

http://www.cherrybankdentalspa.com/why-choose-us/your-team/our-management-team/

Business development manager, if your a smart person you will know what the role entails, its one of the most painful jobs. I have ever done.... You can't expect a dentist to call and do the teeth at the same time,lol.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 22

Quady

20

Original post by SloaneRanger

If you read the spec

If you read the spec of a checkout assistant yes its sales. Btw you know solicitors firms tend to generate leads and business they have arm that does BDM work. Heres an example an accident management company with a law firm next to it, you might of had cold callers about a "road traffic accident", "personal injury claim". So terrible example, law firms get around certain regulations by having partner companies. As for dentists heres an example of a practice,

http://www.cherrybankdentalspa.com/why-choose-us/your-team/our-management-team/

Business development manager, if your a smart person you will know what the role entails, its one of the most painful jobs. I have ever done.... You can't expect a dentist to call and do the teeth at the same time,lol.

Yeah the point is they are all sales. Most jobs are.
Or recuiters in order to move sales people about.

But its a bit like saying every drink you have is water (unless you're having a spirit at 50+% abv), although technically true, 'coke' or 'beer' or 'wine' are how we categorise things. Some drinks are just water, and some jobs are just sales.

Reply 23

Original post by Quady

Yeah the point is they are all sales. Most jobs are.
Or recuiters in order to move sales people about.

But its a bit like saying every drink you have is water (unless you're having a spirit at 50+% abv), although technically true, 'coke' or 'beer' or 'wine' are how we categorise things. Some drinks are just water, and some jobs are just sales.

Agreed, I personally don't want to be in a few years time anywhere near a sales role. Rather be an Doctor in Accident and Emergency at worst, to certain people sales gets to you. Waking up knowing you have to make x amount of call time and appointments, generate x amount of money. The higher up you go the more stressful it is and your pretty much doing the same thing, its a vicious circle. Anyone who wants to not be involved in sales there are so many well paid jobs out there, like Pilot, Train Driver, lol.

Reply 24

Original post by Quady

Thats a very broad definition...

If consultants just did sales, they wouldn't do any chargeable work.

So because I need some consultants to do some work for me, I'm in recruitment am I? In order to go out to market for them I needed to write a business case, oh am I in sales?

MPs are in sales then I guess?
And Tesco checkout assistants?
And my solicitor?
And my dentist?

I think management consultants are ultimately selling a service, in a sense, so if they are required to bring in clients, they could be doing something close to a sales like job.

MPs -> the best job of all since they do nothing and still get paid
Tesco checkout assistants -> not really, I think they are part of operations, I think this would include anyone working in a big organisation, and are not paid based on commission
For solicitors and dentists(and doctors in the private sector), if they are running their own practice, they have to try and bring in clients/patients, and 'sell' their service in a way, which is similar to a sales like job.

Reply 25

Quady

20

Original post by 1drowssap

I think management consultants are ultimately selling a service, in a sense, so if they are required to bring in clients, they could be doing something close to a sales like job.

MPs -> the best job of all since they do nothing and still get paid
Tesco checkout assistants -> not really, I think they are part of operations, I think this would include anyone working in a big organisation, and are not paid based on commission
For solicitors and dentists(and doctors in the private sector), if they are running their own practice, they have to try and bring in clients/patients, and 'sell' their service in a way, which is similar to a sales like job.

Ultimately they are, but thers usually one team to do the sales and another to do the actual consultancy. Theres naturally a link between the two to form a proposal, but I wouldn't say a few days to form a proposal for 3-6 months work means the bulk of activity is sales. Even given you'd need to do a few losing proposals to then win a peice of work.

Reply 26

http://www.prospects.ac.uk/jobs/trainee_chartered_accountant/horder_adey/1228494?utm_source=Indeed&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=Indeed

http://www.insidecareers.co.uk/jobs/trainee-chartered-accountant-5/

http://www.siemens.co.uk/careers/en/graduate/finance-and-accounting.htm

Original post by Quady

Ultimately they are, but thers usually one team to do the sales and another to do the actual consultancy. Theres naturally a link between the two to form a proposal, but I wouldn't say a few days to form a proposal for 3-6 months work means the bulk of activity is sales. Even given you'd need to do a few losing proposals to then win a peice of work.

Yeah, I guess. The point I was trying to make is that, even in the medical profession, there maybe some point in time that you may have to do some form of sales. And it is true for many other jobs as well. It is an integral part of running an organisation

Reply 27

M1011

19

Original post by SloaneRanger

Thats from the official body, the actual accreditation if you want to be recognised.

http://www.iconsulting.org.uk/membership/what_consulting

Full on sales description.

Your view is so narrow minded... I'm not going to continue this argument. If you want to blindly believe something based off zero experience, you go right ahead.

Reply 28

M1011

19

Original post by Quady

Two places I've never heard of (assuming small local firms?), and Siemens who accept a 2.2 on all their grad programs? I don't see how this computes to accountancy being any more of an obvious career choice than anything else with a 2.2?

Reply 29

malachitheone

OP

2

Original post by hothedgehog

Stop looking for 'graduate jobs' and look for actual jobs. For someone with a biomedical degree there's a plethora of lab work out there that you can do, even if it's not right up your street straight away.

The thing is I really don't want to do a lab based job, well not any of the ones I've seen anyway. And the vast majority require IBMS accreditation which I don't have. I did biomed with the intention of going on to medicine and for the moment that looks well out of the question.

Original post by TheCareersGuy

Yeah it does sometimes look like they are the majority of jobs on offer. Lots of jobs go unadvertised and these are the real gems to look out for. Tell me where you've looked so far and I'll see if I can give you a steer.

So far it's been totaljobs, monster, indeed, reed, graduate-jobs, londonjobs and milkround.

Original post by SloaneRanger

Actual medicine, I absolutely hate sales and would never make a life time commitment to it. I think the medical profession is far more reward, money isn't everything. You should at least try recruitment/sales you might like it and yeah do your numbers you will go very far in a short period of time.

This was my original plan, to go into medicine, however I'm starting to fear that once I've earned a bit of money I would be reluctant to go back to the student lifestyle, especially for 4-5 years. Also worried that GEM courses are slowly seeming to disappear

Reply 30

Lots of 2:2 grad schemes but too late for 2014 entry
Search for jobs on company websites not milk round or reed

Reply 31

Original post by 1drowssap

I think management consultants are ultimately selling a service, in a sense, so if they are required to bring in clients, they could be doing something close to a sales like job.

MPs -> the best job of all since they do nothing and still get paid
Tesco checkout assistants -> not really, I think they are part of operations, I think this would include anyone working in a big organisation, and are not paid based on commission
For solicitors and dentists(and doctors in the private sector), if they are running their own practice, they have to try and bring in clients/patients, and 'sell' their service in a way, which is similar to a sales like job.

Are you an idiot ?
A proper job at a management consultancy where you learn about finance and get a salary is NOTHING like a sales job that is commission and cold calling based.

Its only sales based at the director level even then you get a salary and part of a management team and not a lone wolf salesman

Reply 32

Original post by James222

Are you an idiot ?
A proper job at a management consultancy where you learn about finance and get a salary is NOTHING like a sales job that is commission and cold calling based.

Its only sales based at the director level even then you get a salary and part of a management team and not a lone wolf salesman

Good job Einstein. You managed to contradict yourself two lines later, which not many people can do.You call me an idiot, then say management consultancy is nothing like a sales job, after which, you later admitted that management consultancy is at least partially sales based at some point. You obviously don't understand the meaning of the word 'nothing'.
I may not understand the intricacies of a management consultant position, but that doesn't give you the right to write me off. I really think you should redo your English GCSE as you obviously have such a poor grasp of the language.

Reply 33

Original post by 1drowssap

Good job Einstein. You managed to contradict yourself two lines later, which not many people can do.You call me an idiot, then say management consultancy is nothing like a sales job, after which, you later admitted that management consultancy is at least partially sales based at some point. You obviously don't understand the meaning of the word 'nothing'.
I may not understand the intricacies of a management consultant position, but that doesn't give you the right to write me off. I really think you should redo your English GCSE as you obviously have such a poor grasp of the language.

The OP complained about only finding sales and recruitment jobs.

You must he braindead to think he is applying for director level jobs

Reply 34

Original post by James222

The OP complained about only finding sales and recruitment jobs.

You must he braindead to think he is applying for director level jobs

Lol. I feel like I shouldn't be replying to this, but I'll do it for the sake of entertaining anyone else reading this post.

So are you suggesting that he will never, ever have to bring in clients in his career if he becomes a management consultant?

I really think you should think before you post impulsively. Again, you haven't really addressed your contradiction in your earlier post.

Reply 35

Original post by malachitheone

The thing is I really don't want to do a lab based job, well not any of the ones I've seen anyway. And the vast majority require IBMS accreditation which I don't have. I did biomed with the intention of going on to medicine and for the moment that looks well out of the question.

So far it's been totaljobs, monster, indeed, reed, graduate-jobs, londonjobs and milkround.

This was my original plan, to go into medicine, however I'm starting to fear that once I've earned a bit of money I would be reluctant to go back to the student lifestyle, especially for 4-5 years. Also worried that GEM courses are slowly seeming to disappear

Well to be fair applying for the normal route once you made your money in sales is a good idea. The extra year will be pocket money once your earning, btw once you get to a certain position in sales, you work from home. I could do my job in between lectures just need a telephone and laptop for salesforce, the person above you just cares your bringing in the numbers. Decision makers don't tend to be 9-5pm people which is good, business can be conducted pretty much anytime of day.

Reply 36

Original post by 1drowssap

Lol. I feel like I shouldn't be replying to this, but I'll do it for the sake of entertaining anyone else reading this post.

So are you suggesting that he will never, ever have to bring in clients in his career if he becomes a management consultant?

I really think you should think before you post impulsively. Again, you haven't really addressed your contradiction in your earlier post.

I see no contradiction.
Winning clients is not the same as a cold calling commision job which the OP clearly meant the latter.
No one in the UK would classify the job of a management consultant sa a sales job

Reply 37

Original post by James222

I see no contradiction.
Winning clients is not the same as a cold calling commision job which the OP clearly meant the latter.
No one in the UK would classify the job of a management consultant sa a sales job

Let me highlight the contradiction for you.

Original post by James222

Are you an idiot ?
A proper job at a management consultancy where you learn about finance and get a salary is NOTHING like a sales job that is commission and cold calling based.

Its only sales based at the director level even then you get a salary and part of a management team and not a lone wolf salesman

Does it mean there are no sales involved?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales

Honestly, I don't see what your point is anymore. I never equated a management consultant to being a salesman, if that is what you're asking. However, saying that there isn't any element of sales involved in management consulting is an outright lie.

My policy is to not fight anyone on the internet, as I generally believe it is a waste of time and achieves nothing. Go ahead and respond if you wish, but I will not entertain you no further. This argument is way off topic. I hope the mods clean up all the useless drivel you and I have been producing on this thread.

Reply 38

fat_hobbit

2

Original post by SloaneRanger

Actual medicine, I absolutely hate sales and would never make a life time commitment to it. I think the medical profession is far more reward, money isn't everything. You should at least try recruitment/sales you might like it and yeah do your numbers you will go very far in a short period of time.

shocking

Reply 39