Help with Deadlift/Barbell Shrugs: my hands

I use straps on shrugs so I can do it double over hand (hands facing towards you). My working weights for shrugs are around 140-150 just now but I struggle with DOH by around 120. I'm not convinced mixed grip shrugs is good for even trap training.

I wouldn't use straps on deadlifts though because that's part defeating the purpose. Just use mixed grip or learn to do hook grip, they are you're only real solutions long term. If you deadlift DOH then grip will always be your limiting factor so you don't be using the lift to best effect.

I think the best grip training is holding heavy stuff. Farmers handles are ideal but most gyms don't have them but a trap bar is second best, DBs third. I do holds after my shrug set where I just hold the whatever weight is on the bar for as long as I can.

Do grip stuff after deadlifts because otherwise you are weakening your grip by tiring out the muscles already. If you can do that many reps with the gripper thingy then it's far too easy, you are working on high volume endurance which isn't what you do when deadlifting.

Reply 2

shiggydiggy

12

Chalk + hook grip.

Failing that use straps.

Reply 3

OP

Original post by shiggydiggy

Chalk + hook grip.

Failing that use straps.

Yeah but it feels like you're just receding into a more awkward situation

"I can lift this normally"
"I can't lift this normally anymore, so I will do this to make it easier"
I can't use that to lift easily anymore, so I will do something else to make it easier"
"I can't use any of these to lift easily anymore, so I will use straps"

Original post by BKS

I use straps on shrugs so I can do it double over hand (hands facing towards you). My working weights for shrugs are around 140-150 just now but I struggle with DOH by around 120. I'm not convinced mixed grip shrugs is good for even trap training.

I wouldn't use straps on deadlifts though because that's part defeating the purpose. Just use mixed grip or learn to do hook grip, they are you're only real solutions long term. If you deadlift DOH then grip will always be your limiting factor so you don't be using the lift to best effect.

I think the best grip training is holding heavy stuff. Farmers handles are ideal but most gyms don't have them but a trap bar is second best, DBs third. I do holds after my shrug set where I just hold the whatever weight is on the bar for as long as I can.

Do grip stuff after deadlifts because otherwise you are weakening your grip by tiring out the muscles already. If you can do that many reps with the gripper thingy then it's far too easy, you are working on high volume endurance which isn't what you do when deadlifting.

It seems inevitable, but ideally, I'd like to try and hang in there for as long as possible rather than just give up early.
Great, wont be too inconvenient to add these sort of static lifts you mention at the end of my deadlifts/shrugs. Hopefully, not only should it help with my grip strength but it should help with my deadlifts/shrugs too, but isnt holding the bar for as long as you can also endurance/volume training? (in the sense of using time, rather than reps).

I used the hand grip 30mins/1hour before I leave rather than right before I leave in order to try and not tire myself out soon after, but it probably makes more sense to just not do them beforehand anyway :tongue:

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 4

Original post by 00100101

It seems inevitable, but ideally, I'd like to try and hang in there for as long as possible rather than just give up early.
Great, wont be too inconvenient to add these sort of static lifts you mention at the end of my deadlifts/shrugs. Hopefully, not only should it help with my grip strength but it should help with my deadlifts/shrugs too, but isnt holding the bar for as long as you can also endurance/volume training? (in the sense of using time, rather than reps).

I used the hand grip 30mins/1hour before I leave rather than right before I leave in order to try and not tire myself out soon after, but it probably makes more sense to just not do them beforehand anyway :tongue:

But why? what are you achieving in sticking to DOH til you struggle? most people switch just before the point of struggling because training grip isn't the main point of a deadlift

Depends how long you hold it which depends on the weight. By my top set I'm not holding it for very long because the weight is at or beyond my max deadlift. So the amount of volume is way less than 70-90 reps. I don't really count/time it but 20s would be way too long for a top set and if I were getting close to that I'd add more weight.

Shrugs are one of those things were there's no real benefit to 'strict' form so if you don't shrug more than you deadlift that's likely why. If you still don't shrug more than you deadlift I'd stick extra weight on the bar before doing holds.

1hr doesn't make that much of a difference if you properly wear out the muscles.

Reply 5

OP

Original post by BKS

But why? what are you achieving in sticking to DOH til you struggle? most people switch just before the point of struggling because training grip isn't the main point of a deadlift

Depends how long you hold it which depends on the weight. By my top set I'm not holding it for very long because the weight is at or beyond my max deadlift. So the amount of volume is way less than 70-90 reps. I don't really count/time it but 20s would be way too long for a top set and if I were getting close to that I'd add more weight.

Shrugs are one of those things were there's no real benefit to 'strict' form so if you don't shrug more than you deadlift that's likely why. If you still don't shrug more than you deadlift I'd stick extra weight on the bar before doing holds.

1hr doesn't make that much of a difference if you properly wear out the muscles.

I suppose there isn't really a strong reason other than it feels like I'm weak if I have to resort to aids when I see other guys on youtube lifting barehanded and double over hand (albeit likely with some chalk in there). I even use gloves (which I'm still annoyed about) :frown:

I would have thought it's normal for shrugs to be lighter than deadlifts? with a deadlift you just lift up into position then go back down straight after. with shrugs you (or I anyway) deadlift into position, then shrug roughly 1 shrug/second which makes sense why it would be more tiring given the bar is off the ground for longer, especially if you have multiple sets (3x8 for shrugs compared to 1x5 for deadlift)

Reply 6

Original post by 00100101

I suppose there isn't really a strong reason other than it feels like I'm weak if I have to resort to aids when I see other guys on youtube lifting barehanded and double over hand (albeit likely with some chalk in there). I even use gloves (which I'm still annoyed about) :frown:

I would have thought it's normal for shrugs to be lighter than deadlifts? with a deadlift you just lift up into position then go back down straight after. with shrugs you (or I anyway) deadlift into position, then shrug roughly 1 shrug/second which makes sense why it would be more tiring given the bar is off the ground for longer, especially if you have multiple sets (3x8 for shrugs compared to 1x5 for deadlift)

Why gloves? And why no chalk?

If they are lifting heavy then they are almost certainly using hook grip. Nobody is very strong DOH.

I don't entirely follow what you are talking about in that second paragraph. You deadlift the bar up then shrug it? That's not good cause then the deadlift limits you. You'll see guys who shrugs in the squat rack/power cage with the bar across the safeties which is bad because you can bend the bar so if you have no other option but that then always put the bar down really careful. Other better options are to use blocks or lift it out of the rack (set it just below shrug height and only take a step back if you really have to).

Reply 7

OP

Original post by BKS

Why gloves? And why no chalk?

If they are lifting heavy then they are almost certainly using hook grip. Nobody is very strong DOH.

I don't entirely follow what you are talking about in that second paragraph. You deadlift the bar up then shrug it? That's not good cause then the deadlift limits you. You'll see guys who shrugs in the squat rack/power cage with the bar across the safeties which is bad because you can bend the bar so if you have no other option but that then always put the bar down really careful. Other better options are to use blocks or lift it out of the rack (set it just below shrug height and only take a step back if you really have to).

Don't quite remember, think I just started wearing them when I first started lifting (for whatever reason, probably saw people with them). I regret not going barehanded when I was weak. pain tolerance would have gone up along with my strength. I remember lifting something simple like 100kg barehanded, and it felt like my skin would tear off. I suppose I can incorporate improving my tolerance when I warm up for my deadlift. i.e. pick up a 60kg barbell barehanded, then go back to gloved heavier warm ups, and through each session, gradually add more weight to the barehanded lift

I do 5x5 strong lifts and I alternate between two routines each session. One involves deadlift, the other involves barbell shrugs. For shrugs, I deadlift into position as a kind of practice (both for technique and to get as comfortable with lifting as I can) for the deadlift I will do in the next session. The deadlift doesn't really tire me out since I only do it once per set and the weight isn't my main deadlifting weight (120 rather than 135), it's just the hand thing that is my issue but I doubt the deadlift will tire my hands out that much :tongue:

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 8

Original post by 00100101

Don't quite remember, think I just started wearing them when I first started lifting (for whatever reason, probably saw people with them). I regret not going barehanded when I was weak. pain tolerance would have gone up along with my strength. I remember lifting something simple like 100kg barehanded, and it felt like my skin would tear off

I do 5x5 strong lifts and I alternate between two routines each session. One involves deadlift, the other involves barbell shrugs. For shrugs, I deadlift into position as a kind of practice (both for technique and to get as comfortable with lifting as I can) for the deadlift I will do in the next session. The deadlift doesn't really tire me out since I only do it once per set and the weight isn't my main deadlifting weight (120 rather than 135)

You really might as well suck it up and develop callouses now instead of never doing it, gloves won't necessarily be helping with grip. Maybe even do lighter longer holds with a bar for a bit to get the callouses going then stop with the gloves. Once you have them you need to file them down though every few weeks, I use one of those stones for removing the though skin on feet.

Yeah, that's what I thought you meant. Deadlifting it up off the ground makes no sense. Say your deadlift max is 140, 120 is 85% which is a heavy deadlift on a day you are meant to still be recovering from deadlifts. If you want to practice technique then do but do it with more like 50% so there's not really any strength involved. But also because it should be a limiting factor, like I said before, so even if it's not now it will be eventually, especially if you get a little bounce in your shrug.

(you know shrugs aren't in SL, right? just in case you think they count as a row)

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 9

OP

Original post by BKS

You really might as well suck it up and develop callouses now instead of never doing it, gloves won't necessarily be helping with grip. Maybe even do lighter longer holds with a bar for a bit to get the callouses going then stop with the gloves. Once you have them you need to file them down though every few weeks, I use one of those stones for removing the though skin on feet.

Yeah, that's what I thought you meant. Deadlifting it up off the ground makes no sense. Say your deadlift max is 140, 120 is 85% which is a heavy deadlift on a day you are meant to still be recovering from deadlifts. If you want to practice technique then do but do it with more like 50% so there's not really any strength involved. But also because it should be a limiting factor, like I said before, so even if it's not now it will be eventually, especially if you get a little bounce in your shrug.

(you know shrugs aren't in SL, right? just in case you think they count as a row)

Ah right, fair enough haha. I will start tomorrow

I didn't expect deadlifting on barbell shrugs to have that much of an impact as long as my legs don't feel tired and my actual deadlift weights were still gradually going up but fair enough I guess. Seems like a bit of a pain to wait for the squat rack to be available just for shrugs but oh well :tongue:

I know it isn't a core component of strong lifts, but it is part of my routine (as an accessory exercise) anyway via ICF
http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/jason-blaha-ice-cream-fitness-5x5-novice-workout

Reply 10

tehforum

20

http://www.ironmind.com/ironmind/opencms/Main/captainsofcrush.html

get these if you want to improve grip

but otherwise, there's been some very good advice in this thread.

use chalk + hook grip.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 11

Gior

Agree with the above hook grip is a good option with chalk. Then you can add some accessory work in there like farmers walks and static holds.

Reply 12

e aí rapaz

16

It depends on your goal. If you want to improve your grip, then continue working double over hand and trying to increase the weight. You could also try static barbell holds. Hand gripper things are not going to carry over much at all tbh.

If you want to actually improve your deadlift, or strengthen/grow your entire posterior chain, then just use mixed grip + chalk/straps for the heavier sets.

chalk /thread

Original post by 00100101

Yeah but it feels like you're just receding into a more awkward situation

"I can lift this normally"
"I can't lift this normally anymore, so I will do this to make it easier"
I can't use that to lift easily anymore, so I will do something else to make it easier"
"I can't use any of these to lift easily anymore, so I will use straps"

Do you do shrugs primarily for your grip?
Do you do deadlifts primarily for your grip?

If the answers to those questions are no then your point is invalid. If the answers are yes then you're doing it wrong.

Train grip separately if you want. Unless you plan on competing in powerlifting then stop making silly excuses and use the aid you need to properly work your big muscles. Even if you plan on powerlifting then use chalk and mixed grip, just no straps.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 15

illusionz

20

Original post by BKS

Why gloves? And why no chalk?

If they are lifting heavy then they are almost certainly using hook grip. Nobody is very strong DOH.

I don't entirely follow what you are talking about in that second paragraph. You deadlift the bar up then shrug it? That's not good cause then the deadlift limits you. You'll see guys who shrugs in the squat rack/power cage with the bar across the safeties which is bad because you can bend the bar so if you have no other option but that then always put the bar down really careful. Other better options are to use blocks or lift it out of the rack (set it just below shrug height and only take a step back if you really have to).

You seriously shrug more than you deadlift?

Been skipping leg day my friend? :tongue:

Reply 16