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The Israel/Palestine Conflict Mk. IV
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Original post by miavdbt
Nope, the tweet makes reference to schools, not UN schools. As the IDF has identified some of them as military targets, yes they are fair game. It's too bad Hamas likes to carry its operations out from schools and hospitals, isn't it?
Apologies. Here:
"Many Palestinians who've fled their compounds perceive U.N. schools as safe zones.But in the past day or so, at least nine UNRWA schools have been damaged in clashes and strikes across Gaza."
Oh, I'm sorry! Because Israel has shelters for its people as well as the Iron Dome to protect them, there have been no casualties. It's not for lack of trying of Hamas who have been firing hundreds of rockets on a daily basis, it's because so far Israel's defense system has worked. Will you feel better if there were hundreds of Israelis dying? Would you then say that the conflict is somehow justified?
There have been one dead Israeli and a couple of wounded soldiers (I think one or two today and around 4 on Monday's attempted naval raid)...
Of course the Israelis haven't released his picture. They don't need to garner pity from the masses like Gaza does. They don't like using their dead as weapons of propaganda for the clueless masses.
It's factual news, not propaganda.
What is propaganda is publishing infographics which seems to be all the rage in Israel at the moment...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-israeli-air-strike-demolishes-home-for-the-disabled-killing-two-women-residents-9602441.html
Is this normal in international warfare?
Also, I'm not too clued up in the rules of engagement and whatnot, but obviously Israel does not recognise Gaza as a sovereign state, rather a semi-autonomous authority, much like Northern Ireland within the UK right? So are airstrikes necessary, as opposed to a ground investigation into hamas's stockpiles etc. I mean I don't see a civilised nation like the UK dropping bombs in Northern Ireland because IRA members were launching rockets into the Lake District
Is this normal in international warfare?
Also, I'm not too clued up in the rules of engagement and whatnot, but obviously Israel does not recognise Gaza as a sovereign state, rather a semi-autonomous authority, much like Northern Ireland within the UK right? So are airstrikes necessary, as opposed to a ground investigation into hamas's stockpiles etc. I mean I don't see a civilised nation like the UK dropping bombs in Northern Ireland because IRA members were launching rockets into the Lake District
Original post by tsr1269
Apologies. Here:
"Many Palestinians who've fled their compounds perceive U.N. schools as safe zones.But in the past day or so, at least nine UNRWA schools have been damaged in clashes and strikes across Gaza."
There have been one dead Israeli and a couple of wounded soldiers (I think one or two today and around 4 on Monday's attempted naval raid)...
It's factual news, not propaganda.
What is propaganda is publishing infographics which seems to be all the rage in Israel at the moment...
"Many Palestinians who've fled their compounds perceive U.N. schools as safe zones.But in the past day or so, at least nine UNRWA schools have been damaged in clashes and strikes across Gaza."
There have been one dead Israeli and a couple of wounded soldiers (I think one or two today and around 4 on Monday's attempted naval raid)...
It's factual news, not propaganda.
What is propaganda is publishing infographics which seems to be all the rage in Israel at the moment...
#Israel murders children playing on a beach in #Gaza.Let me guess: "Hamas" hid nuclear weapons in their sandcastles.
Original post by tsr1269
Apologies. Here:
"Many Palestinians who've fled their compounds perceive U.N. schools as safe zones.But in the past day or so, at least nine UNRWA schools have been damaged in clashes and strikes across Gaza."
Ok, damaged does not mean targeted or obliterated. As you said yourself, it's a tightly packed area. We don't know the extent of this damage. Furthermore, the article states that the damage occurred as a result of clashes and strikes, not just airstrikes by Israel. It's very vague what they mean by 'clashes', clashes between Israelis and Gazans? The fact remains that the schools are safe zones, and people are surviving there more so than they are in their homes.
There have been one dead Israeli and a couple of wounded soldiers (I think one or two today and around 4 on Monday's attempted naval raid)...
Sorry, I knew this, but I was unsure whether the status of the dead Israeli was civilian or not. Either way, he is a casualty.
It's factual news, not propaganda.
What is propaganda is publishing infographics which seems to be all the rage in Israel at the moment...
"Many Palestinians who've fled their compounds perceive U.N. schools as safe zones.But in the past day or so, at least nine UNRWA schools have been damaged in clashes and strikes across Gaza."
Ok, damaged does not mean targeted or obliterated. As you said yourself, it's a tightly packed area. We don't know the extent of this damage. Furthermore, the article states that the damage occurred as a result of clashes and strikes, not just airstrikes by Israel. It's very vague what they mean by 'clashes', clashes between Israelis and Gazans? The fact remains that the schools are safe zones, and people are surviving there more so than they are in their homes.
There have been one dead Israeli and a couple of wounded soldiers (I think one or two today and around 4 on Monday's attempted naval raid)...
Sorry, I knew this, but I was unsure whether the status of the dead Israeli was civilian or not. Either way, he is a casualty.
It's factual news, not propaganda.
What is propaganda is publishing infographics which seems to be all the rage in Israel at the moment...
No, it's not factual news to post a photo of a dead person. Factual news is saying: One civilian dead. Propaganda is saying: " Look at this headless person, this is what those evil Israelis are doing" and plastering it on top of a photo. Or simply posting a photo in hopes of garnering sympathy.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by miavdbt
Ok, damaged does not mean targeted or obliterated. As you said yourself, it's a tightly packed area. We don't know the extent of this damage. Furthermore, the article states that the damage occurred as a result of clashes and strikes, not just airstrikes by Israel. It's very vague what they mean by 'clashes', clashes between Israelis and Gazans? The fact remains that the schools are safe zones, and people are surviving there more so than they are in their homes.
It's hardly likely that the Gazans would go and target 9 schools. One possibly, but 9. Even you have to concede that...
It's actually disheartening to see you try and squirm your way out of condemning the Israeli's for hitting a goddamn UN school. It shows just how much that Israeli propaganda has dehumanized you.
No, it's not factual news to post a photo of a dead person. Factual news is saying: One civilian dead. Propaganda is saying: " Look at this headless person, this is what those evil Israelis are doing" and plastering it on top of a photo. Or simply posting a photo in hopes of garnering sympathy.
Are Israel's airstrikes decapitating the heads of civilians? Is it news?
If both are in the affirmative, we can conclude that it is not propaganda...
Original post by tsr1269
It's hardly likely that the Gazans would go and target 9 schools. One possibly, but 9. Even you have to concede that...
It's actually disheartening to see you try and squirm your way out of condemning the Israeli's for hitting a goddamn UN school. It shows just how much that Israeli propaganda has dehumanized you DAMAGING IT IS NOT THE SAME AS HITTING IT OR TARGETING IT! IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN DAMAGED AS A RESULT OF A TARGET NEARBY BEING HIT. WE DON'T KNOW. DAMAGE DOES NOT EQUAL HIT OR TARGET
Are Israel's airstrikes decapitating the heads of civilians? Is it news?
If both are in the affirmative, we can conclude that it is not propaganda...
It's actually disheartening to see you try and squirm your way out of condemning the Israeli's for hitting a goddamn UN school. It shows just how much that Israeli propaganda has dehumanized you DAMAGING IT IS NOT THE SAME AS HITTING IT OR TARGETING IT! IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN DAMAGED AS A RESULT OF A TARGET NEARBY BEING HIT. WE DON'T KNOW. DAMAGE DOES NOT EQUAL HIT OR TARGET
Are Israel's airstrikes decapitating the heads of civilians? Is it news?
If both are in the affirmative, we can conclude that it is not propaganda...
It depends on the way that the news is delivered. News can be news- an objective retelling of events, or it can be propaganda, filled with someone's political leanings, making erroneous claims or implications. So yes, if they showed a picture of a headless kid and said IDF weaponry has caused this, and this was in fact true, it would be news, albeit a little distasteful. If, however, it says 'IDF deliberately targeting children' or 'Look, Israel, did you DEFEND yourself by purposely killing our kids?', then yeah that's propaganda.
Original post by miavdbt
DAMAGING IT IS NOT THE SAME AS HITTING IT OR TARGETING IT! IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN DAMAGED AS A RESULT OF A TARGET NEARBY BEING HIT. WE DON'T KNOW. DAMAGE DOES NOT EQUAL HIT OR TARGET
Wow! I really didn't expect you to start shouting. I guess that's what happens when people are in denial, they start shouting....
It depends on the way that the news is delivered. News can be news- an objective retelling of events, or it can be propaganda, filled with someone's political leanings, making erroneous claims or implications. So yes, if they showed a picture of a headless kid and said IDF weaponry has caused this, and this was in fact true, it would be news, albeit a little distasteful. If, however, it says 'IDF deliberately targeting children' or 'Look, Israel, did you DEFEND yourself by purposely killing our kids?', then yeah that's propaganda.
Glad we've cleared up that my posts here have been news and not propaganda. It's a shame we can't say the same to you...
Original post by tsr1269
Wow! I really didn't expect you to start shouting. I guess that's what happens when people are in denial, they start shouting....
I just felt like you had some sort of fetish for the big font, so I decided to do it and also add Caps Lock for effect.
Glad we've cleared up that my posts here have been news and not propaganda. It's a shame we can't say the same to you...
I just felt like you had some sort of fetish for the big font, so I decided to do it and also add Caps Lock for effect.
Glad we've cleared up that my posts here have been news and not propaganda. It's a shame we can't say the same to you...
Yeah, I know, that damn propaganda the CNN, NYT and BBC spew. It's so annoying! Most unreliable sources EVERR! Al Jazeera is the ONLY truth out there.
EDIT: Whenever you can't respond to a point I make, you latch onto the font I used, or something similarly trivial. It's a little frustrating.
(edited 9 years ago)
heres a link to what a UN investigation found for the clashes in 2008-2009
The report found that Hama did NOT use human shields and this is propaganda from the Israel side (only recently an official said "[H]ere's the difference between us. We are using missile defense to protect our civilians, and they're using their civilians to protect their missiles)
From the information available to it, the Mission found no evidence to suggest that
Palestinian armed groups either directed civilians to areas where attacks were being launched or
forced civilians to remain within the vicinity of the attacks.
also the report found that a hamas member told his family to leave the house :
About 16 hours prior to the shelling on the afternoon of 6 January 2009, Israeli armed
forces had already carried out at least one strike, destroying the house of Mr. Abu Askar. At
around 1.45 a.m. on 6 January 2009, Mr. Abu Askar received a personal telephone call from the
Israeli armed forces advising him that he should evacuate the house and everyone in it because it
was going to be destroyed by an air strike. The building housed not only his immediate family
but a large number of his extended family, about 40 in all. Mr. Abu Askar responded quickly,
evacuating not only his own extended family but also advising neighbours of the imminent
strike. The survivors of the al-Deeb family confirm they were advised at this time by Mr. Abu
Askar of the call he had received.
in fact the report said that Israel itself used human shields
On the second day of detention, the Israeli armed forces began to use a number of the
detainees as human shields. At this point the detainees had been without food and without sleep
for a day. There were constant death threats and insults. To carry out house searches, the Israelis
took off AD/03’s blindfold but he remained handcuffed. He was forced to walk in front of the
soldiers and told that, if he saw someone in the house but failed to tell the Israeli soldiers, he
would be killed.... He was punched, slapped and insulted
throughout the process.
Legal findings of whether this was true:
The Mission found the foregoing witnesses to be credible and reliable. It has no reason to
doubt the veracity of their accounts and found that the different stories serve to support the
allegation that Palestinians were used as human shields.
link to report
http://www.leksikon.org/images/goldstone_gazacrimes.pdf
The report found that Hama did NOT use human shields and this is propaganda from the Israel side (only recently an official said "[H]ere's the difference between us. We are using missile defense to protect our civilians, and they're using their civilians to protect their missiles)
From the information available to it, the Mission found no evidence to suggest that
Palestinian armed groups either directed civilians to areas where attacks were being launched or
forced civilians to remain within the vicinity of the attacks.
also the report found that a hamas member told his family to leave the house :
About 16 hours prior to the shelling on the afternoon of 6 January 2009, Israeli armed
forces had already carried out at least one strike, destroying the house of Mr. Abu Askar. At
around 1.45 a.m. on 6 January 2009, Mr. Abu Askar received a personal telephone call from the
Israeli armed forces advising him that he should evacuate the house and everyone in it because it
was going to be destroyed by an air strike. The building housed not only his immediate family
but a large number of his extended family, about 40 in all. Mr. Abu Askar responded quickly,
evacuating not only his own extended family but also advising neighbours of the imminent
strike. The survivors of the al-Deeb family confirm they were advised at this time by Mr. Abu
Askar of the call he had received.
in fact the report said that Israel itself used human shields
On the second day of detention, the Israeli armed forces began to use a number of the
detainees as human shields. At this point the detainees had been without food and without sleep
for a day. There were constant death threats and insults. To carry out house searches, the Israelis
took off AD/03’s blindfold but he remained handcuffed. He was forced to walk in front of the
soldiers and told that, if he saw someone in the house but failed to tell the Israeli soldiers, he
would be killed.... He was punched, slapped and insulted
throughout the process.
Legal findings of whether this was true:
The Mission found the foregoing witnesses to be credible and reliable. It has no reason to
doubt the veracity of their accounts and found that the different stories serve to support the
allegation that Palestinians were used as human shields.
link to report
http://www.leksikon.org/images/goldstone_gazacrimes.pdf
(edited 9 years ago)
Can anyone tell me what the **** is going on with this country? I've never really supported Palestine but what the **** is Israel doing? How can anyone defend targeting children?
Original post by TheAnusFiles
Can anyone tell me what the **** is going on with this country? I've never really supported Palestine but what the **** is Israel doing? How can anyone defend targeting children?
How do you know they were targeted?
How do you know they were hit by Israeli fire?
Hamas controls everything that happens there. Hamas release casualty figures, Hamas control which reporters go where and see what.
This is a war and people die.
What do you think happened when British troops went to Iraq and Afghanistan? do you think they only killed baddies and never made mistakes?
What about wedding parties being bombed?
What about NATO bombing hospitals and markets in Serbia during that conflict?
How about us Brits fire-bombing whole German cities in response V2 rocket fire?
What is the fascination with Israel?
There are over 1000 dead in Ukraine. On European soil. A few hundred of those are civilians.
Hamas are masters at propaganda and use their people's blood to manipulate people like you into hating Israel. This is theatre for them.
Let's not forget that the UN had to admit in the past that their war report was undermined by Hamas lying about casualty figures.
Link or it didn't happen. Hamas source or Quran does not count BTW
why ppl complaining about the bbc ?
they have reported it very fairly
they have reported it very fairly
Original post by GrapeLeaves
Link or it didn't happen. Hamas source or Quran does not count BTW
Even if it happened, the circumstances won't be clear.
There are a lot of amateur analysts saying the smoke rising looks like a failed rocket launch etc.
I've given up believing anything that comes out of Gaza as it's totally controlled by Hamas and they have lied repeatedly. Hence the legendary 'pallywood' productions.
Hamas' main weapon against Israel is public relations, not rockets.
Rockets act as the necessary act to produce the deaths Hamas need.
Original post by GrapeLeaves
Link or it didn't happen. Hamas source or Quran does not count BTW
it's all over the news.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/middle-east-unrest/innocent-gone-israeli-strike-gaza-kills-four-children-n157301
Guys it DID happen. There were multiple reporters of different news networks around. There are pictures and everything.
See for yourself.
And nothing can or ever will justify the killing of innocent people. Specially children.
It is not about race,religion or nationality. I don't know why Humanity is just dead now a days.
See for yourself.
And nothing can or ever will justify the killing of innocent people. Specially children.
It is not about race,religion or nationality. I don't know why Humanity is just dead now a days.
Original post by TheBBQ
The JIDF has arrived 
whats that ?
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