MH17 flight down in Ukraine

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DanB1991

It's not about new tech, it's about old tech. There are mountains of Soviet-era anti aircraft missiles about that have operation ceilings above 10,000m, and loads of people with nothing else to do except fire them. Half of these systems would never have seen the light of day in a proper shooting war, and have extremely crude search and tracking radars that just tell you that there's something there.

These aren't like Rapier and stuff, where you pile a few million quid into the R&D to make sure you don't shoot down any airliners. These things were designed in the 60s and 70s on a shoestring, and the designers were probably given a brief to make a radar guided missile end of.

Well even in the 60' and 70's they have million in R&D anyway, it was the soviet union who basically created the cruise missile. You'd be surprised how much 70's tech they still use and actually is still produced in the UK and USA armed forces, never mind in russia. You have to remember the USSR only fell behind the USA in military research spending in the mid to late 80's.

Yes it's old tech, but it's old tech that only superpowers had and very rarely sold it to anyone else. The only reason Ukraine has stuff like that is because it was a founding partner of the USSR. It's not the kind of stuff you would leave lying about, and certainly too expensive to sell to some backwater.

No handheld or semi-personal AA device can shoot at that range, which is what we "though" the Russians had been supplying the rebels. The very fact they have something of that size that's also most likely radar guided, proves with almost no doubt, if the rebels did shoot it down, they would of got their equipment from the likes of Russia.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 41

LightBlueSoldier

Original post by B-recipe

I could bet that it wasnt done by ukrainians

The Ukrainians are the only party with a clear motive here. Yes it's more likely that it was the separatists but don't let the agenda driven news agencies control you. Think impartially.

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(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 42

JakeBradley

Madness. Who shoots down a passenger plane with innocent people on board!

Reply 43

rockrunride

Civilians. Why is it ever okay? Not just on MH17, but in the Middle East, Iran 655, Pan Am 103, Korean 7, 9/11, 7/7, everywhere. Sickening.

Reply 44

a10

Original post by the bear

Will Malaysian Airlines be able to stay in business after this & the missing flight ?

wouldn't be surprised if they ended up out of business completely.

Reply 45

Drewski

Original post by LightBlueSoldier

The passengers are basically being ignored by the news agencies at the moment.

What is there to say beyond that they're all dead? Can't release names until you have next of kin's permission.

Reply 46

LightBlueSoldier

Original post by Drewski

What is there to say beyond that they're all dead? Can't release names until you have next of kin's permission.

No I agree. It was just a comment.

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Reply 47

Clip

Original post by DanB1991

Yes it's old tech, but it's old tech that only superpowers had and very rarely sold it to anyone else. The only reason Ukraine has stuff like that is because it was a founding partner of the USSR. It's not the kind of stuff you would leave lying about, and certainly too expensive to sell to some backwater.

.

I don't think that's true at all. The Soviets armed just about every socialist nation in the world. Half the time they did it for free. There were Soviet missile systems all of Asia, Africa and the Middle East. Their plan was to swarm these countries with missiles to ward off American air power.

Reply 48

InnerTemple

Original post by Drewski

Flying over what is perceived as 'dodgy areas' is actually quite common.

Note the number of flights traversing areas like Ukraine, Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan.

Original post by Jordooooom

Definitely never using Malaysian Airlines.

Why were they flying over what is basically a war-zone anyway?

Some aircraft have been avoiding the area - diverting south before resuming normal course. It certainly is not usual for the relevant authorities to issue notices advising that certain areas are to be avoided. Such notices were issued some time back concerning the situation in Ukraine. No idea of the area where this event happened was included.

Both Russia and Ukraine say the plane was shot down - they just disagree on who was to blame. Interestingly, a report went out from separatists saying a transport plane had been shot down just before the Malaysian aircraft disappeared and in the same area.

Reply 49

Drewski

Original post by InnerTemple

Some have and some more will be (Virgin have just said some of theirs will be re-routed tonight), but despite all the incidents that have happened around the world for decades, these flight paths still exist and flying over such areas is still pretty common.

Reply 50

LightBlueSoldier

Original post by InnerTemple

Both Russia and Ukraine say the plane was shot down - they just disagree on who was to blame. Interestingly, a report went out from separatists saying a transport plane had been shot down just before the Malaysian aircraft disappeared and in the same area.

I've heard this too but my colleague (who know far more about this stuff than I do) has suggested that that was just a rumor.

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Reply 51

911ZionJob

Here we go blame Russia without knowing the facts. Do I need to remind people all of this trouble began because the US has essentially taken over much of Ukraine with their funded coup? So they take over a country, put in an anti-Russian government who is loyal to the interests of gods chosen people. A lot of Ukrainians in eastern Ukraine have a connection to Russia they are not anti-Ukrainian but they aren't anti-Russian either. The rebels are simply resisting occupation of a government they don't want to be part of. Does Democracy not matter? let them vote to separate and become part of Russia.

Reply 52

LightBlueSoldier

Original post by 911ZionJob

Yeah. Lest we forget, a democratically elected pro-Russian leader was undemocratically ousted in Ukraine and the western media never once had anything to say about that. And then when a separatist movement started against said undemocratically elected government they were highly critical of it.

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Reply 53

Black Cat

My condolences go to those passengers who have lost their lives today RIP.

Hope something drastic is done to find those held accountable for this tragic event.

Reply 54

LightBlueSoldier

Original post by Black Cat

Hope something drastic is done to find those held accountable for this tragic event.

Don't hold your breath. I'd say it's pretty likely that well never know the truth.

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Reply 55

Eboracum

Outrageous. Time for NATO airstrikes on rebels if it's proved. Don't be scared of war. Just get it done, bring those accountable to justice. A war with Russia is a lesser evil than continued acts like this. Time for Obama/EU to be tough on defence and show some leadership.

Reply 56

DanB1991

Original post by Clip

The only thing capable to have shot the Airliner down, that's fairly mobile is the Buk Missle system.

Look at it's users.... either ex soviet states such as Ukraine, Belarus, Georgia, Azerbaijan and Belarus who all kept their military weapons after the fall of the USSR. Or the the likes of Finland, Egypt, China, North Korea, Syria, India and Cyprus who brought them and hardly used to prop communist regimes up.

The only others are Vietnam and Venezuela who have them "on order". This 70's tech (1979) is still being improved and produced. Hell in the Russian Georgian war the Georgians used them to shoot down Russian planes, it uses very advanced tech, not even the Russians have been able of creating counter-measures of a system they created themselves over 20 years after it's creation.

It's so advanced it's hardly anything the soviet would of sold round the world to the likes of random african and asian countries. Remember they would sell outdated military surplus, yes they would sell them AA equipment but hardly something so high tech and expensive. That would be akin to the USA selling their most high tech drone to somalia or somewhere in the modern day.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 57

CEKTOP

The official twitter account of the DPR up until very recently contained images of an allegedly captured Buk AA system.

There is no mystery here.

Reply 58

Yololo

That's so horrible. RIP to all those people :frown:

Can't help but wonder if something like this happened to MH370 too?

Also, it's stupid if airlines are flying over areas known to be dangerous at the current time.