MH17 flight down in Ukraine

What difference is that going to make?

All they will do is confirm the theory of a middle attack

Wouldn't the weapon have been supplied by Russia? He was pretty intent on blaming Kiev this morning.

I can't understand how Putin can say it's Ukraine's fault? If it's pro-Russian separatists supported by Moscow, then they are responsible, both the separatists and Moscow, and they should be brought to justice. Not Ukraine. How on earth did the rebels get the technology if not Moscow? Personally I'd favour NATO airstrikes on the rebels, talking and all this diplomatic nonsense just gets nowhere. You're not Russian, your Ukrainian. Doesn't matter if you were once Russian. Time for the NATO to show some leadership, bring those responsible to justice. Doesn't matter what Russia thinks, just take revenge. The tree of liberty needs to be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. Stop being scared of a war with Russia, it's a lesser evil than allowing acts like this to continue. We in the West will control how world events are going to play out, not anybody else. A war with separatists/Russia is one the West could win.

Heart goes out to the families of the victims and the victims, so sad.

Wouldn't the weapon have been supplied by Russia? He was pretty intent on blaming Kiev this morning.

I can't understand how Putin can say it's Ukraine's fault? If it's pro-Russian separatists supported by Moscow, then they are responsible, both the separatists and Moscow, and they should be brought to justice. Not Ukraine. How on earth did the rebels get the technology if not Moscow? Personally I'd favour NATO airstrikes on the rebels, talking and all this diplomatic nonsense just gets nowhere. You're not Russian, your Ukrainian. Doesn't matter if you were once Russian. Time for the NATO to show some leadership, bring those responsible to justice. Doesn't matter what Russia thinks, just take revenge. The tree of liberty needs to be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. Stop being scared of a war with Russia, it's a lesser evil than allowing acts like this to continue. We in the West will control how world events are going to play out, not anybody else. A war with separatists/Russia is one the West could win.

Heart goes out to the families of the victims and the victims, so sad.

Well, either supplied by Russia or taken from the supplies captured by the rebels.

My guess is that it was supplied but the Russians to counteract the recent Ukrainian bombings.

Well, he has to blame Ukraine. I doubt he has any other option at this point.

Russia's line since the war in east Ukraine started basically is "it's Ukraine fault the armed separatist's started fighting to join Russia, It's Ukraine fault it continues, it's Ukraine fault they have weapons, it's Ukraine fault the plane was shot down as they should of surrendered their weapons to the separatist's".

But as someone mentioned earlier in the thread.... it's a slightly different outlook when it comes to their own current uprising in Russia isn't it?

I can't find the twitter pics (because they took the tweet down) but the seperatists recently posted a picture, taunting the Ukrainian forces, of a BUK missile launcher they had taken from a Ukrainian airport. So my money's on the seperatists having taken the weapon opposed to the Russian's giving it to them. http://en.itar-tass.com/world/738262

I can't understand how Putin can say it's Ukraine's fault? If it's pro-Russian separatists supported by Moscow, then they are responsible, both the separatists and Moscow, and they should be brought to justice. Not Ukraine. How on earth did the rebels get the technology if not Moscow? Personally I'd favour NATO airstrikes on the rebels, talking and all this diplomatic nonsense just gets nowhere. You're not Russian, your Ukrainian. Doesn't matter if you were once Russian. Time for the NATO to show some leadership, bring those responsible to justice. Doesn't matter what Russia thinks, just take revenge. The tree of liberty needs to be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. Stop being scared of a war with Russia, it's a lesser evil than allowing acts like this to continue. We in the West will control how world events are going to play out, not anybody else. A war with separatists/Russia is one the West could win.

Heart goes out to the families of the victims and the victims, so sad.

So, to sum up, it appears (unconfirmed but various sources reporting it) that the rebels stole a buk launcher from the Ukrainians and then used it on what the thought was an ilyushin troop transport but was actually MH17. Was always the most likely explanation.

So, to sum up, it appears (unconfirmed but various sources reporting it) that the rebels stole a buk launcher from the Ukrainians and then used it on what the thought was an ilyushin troop transport but was actually MH17. Was always the most likely explanation.

The real question is what happens next?


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Thank you for putting this thread back on track.

I don't know what's going to happen next because we don't know who is 100% culpable of the attack. If the pro-Russians are indeed the culprits I suppose they'll get hefty sanctions.

I can't understand how Putin can say it's Ukraine's fault? If it's pro-Russian separatists supported by Moscow, then they are responsible, both the separatists and Moscow, and they should be brought to justice. Not Ukraine. How on earth did the rebels get the technology if not Moscow? Personally I'd favour NATO airstrikes on the rebels, talking and all this diplomatic nonsense just gets nowhere. You're not Russian, your Ukrainian. Doesn't matter if you were once Russian. Time for the NATO to show some leadership, bring those responsible to justice. Doesn't matter what Russia thinks, just take revenge. The tree of liberty needs to be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. Stop being scared of a war with Russia, it's a lesser evil than allowing acts like this to continue. We in the West will control how world events are going to play out, not anybody else. A war with separatists/Russia is one the West could win.

Heart goes out to the families of the victims and the victims, so sad.

But how are they going to be sanctioned? Surely they're already being sanctioned to the maximal extent. Much more likely, people will pin the blame on Russia [again] and penalise them instead.

I know. I think Russia are trying to outwit America ... When investigators link the missiles to pro-Russian troops, Russia will be indirectly to blame and therefore will receive minor sanctions in comparison.

Has anybody even proven that the Russians are helping the pro Russian separatists yet, or is everybody still just finger pointing?