The Arsenal Thread XX

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You made some good points there. Especially on Ozil being the guy that pulls the strings rather than being the focal point of the team. And it seems likely that Ozil will improve this season with Sanchez in there and Walcott back, but if he doesn't, he has absolutely no excuses this time. On the subject of being the focal point and pulling the strings, I don't think you can only be one or the other. Fabregas IMO is good enough to be both. In fact, he was both during his time at Arsenal!

Fabregas was never the main man for Spain or Barcelona, but he was still involved in big moments for both, especially Spain. Assist in the 1-0 win in the Euro 2008 Final, assist in the 1-0 in the World Cup 2010 Final, assist in the winning goal in the Euro 2012 Final. Ozil might be a slightly better passer, might be a slightly better dribbler and slightly more mobile, but Fabregas is a much better leader, a MUCH better fighter and always has a special moment in him. Honestly think those qualities make the real difference when it comes down to it.

Have to agree, if Ozil has a poor season this time around then we'll have to conclude that either he's not suited to the PL or has just peaked.

That's fair enough, cant really disagree. But then again as I say, Ozil is not trying to be 'that guy' who makes the surging run into the box or whatever. That man for us is now Aaron Ramsey and so Ozil is probably a better compliment to him from Arsenal's point of view.

Interesting to note that Fabregas has done nothing for Spain since leaving AFC incidentally(not counting Euro2012 tbh mate, a tournament in which he struggled before being dropped. The final was a walk over too). Just an observation, but Cesc wouldnt be the first player to leave Wenger only to find that you cant quite get back to that level ever again.

Original post by SarcasticMel

Haha and I still don't like Ozil. Because as good as he plays, he looks like he is never performing as well as he could.

Like Messi in the last season maybe two, started to stop working as hard as he used to, and it was only logical that CR7 took the crown over him this time round.

I think Ozil just has that aura about him though. Even if he scored the winner in the CL final he'd probably just trot over to the corner flag like it was nothing :laugh:

At his best and at his worst, his body language etc never changes so Ive always found that a peculiar arguement.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 1361

baconbutty

Original post by Zürich

Source for that? Ozil has the better chance created/90 minutes so it would be interesting if what you say is true.

:confused:

Are we discussing passing ability or not?

But Ozil had more assists than anyone since 2010?

Messi? Neymar? Sanchez? Van Persie? :confused:

Is Ozil known for sideways passing?

Are we talking about Cesc in the number 10 position or are you doing the same thing you did with jam earlier comparing a b2b midfielder with an AM

The through ball was on a graphic that came up on skysports twice as many is just an estimate because he had twice as many as iniesta who was 2nd and I can't remember what ozils was

Let's compare them as number 10s not the several different roles he played at barca because
1. Neymar played a supporting role
2. Messi is the main creative spark of barca and occupies cescs space
3. Him and van persie barely played together and when they did like I said Cesc put up better stats than ozil.

You seem to be confusing key passes/chance creation with passing

Ozil excels in that area but he doesn't have anything close to the range of passing that players like Cesc, xavi etc

We've clearly seen ozils limitations this season when he doesn't have a certain type of player to assist. When Cesc played as number 10 he racked up more assists playing with adebayor, bendtner etc than ozil did assisting Ronaldo, higuain, di Maria, benzema laughable

Reply 1362

Nickini

Original post by Zürich

Source for that? Ozil has the better chance created/90 minutes so it would be interesting if what you say is true.

Slightly different to what he said but Fabregas has the highest number of successful through balls in the last 5 PL seasons. Insane stat when you consider he hasn't been here for three of them. :coma:

Reply 1363

ZÃ¼rich

Original post by baconbutty

Are we talking about Cesc in the number 10 position or are you doing the same thing you did with jam earlier comparing a b2b midfielder with an AM

Any position you like.

The through ball was on a graphic that came up on skysports twice as many is just an estimate because he had twice as many as iniesta who was 2nd and I can't remember what ozils was

Wonderful stuff here, just wonderful.

You seem to be confusing key passes/chance creation with passing

Hang about, you were slaughtering me for using pass completion stats a minute ago? How are you measuring this exactly, because stat so far has gone against you.

. When Cesc played as number 10 he racked up more assists playing with adebayor, bendtner etc than ozil did assisting Ronaldo, higuain, di Maria, benzema laughable

Cesc PL assists 2009/10= 13, 2010/11=11
Ozil LL assists 2010/11=17

Those are some stats with both playing number 10, again what you are saying is not objectively true.

Original post by Nickini

Certainly impressive. Hard to judge with Ozil but found this :

http://eplindex.com/39422/mesut-ozil-compare-creative-players-season.html

12/13 in La Liga Cesc made 20 trough balls with Ozil on 17 in fairness. But then again Ozil made more assists obviously, which makes sense really because Ozil is more fond of the little flicks to feet in and around the box than the cross field passes.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 1364

baconbutty

Original post by Zürich

Any position you like.

Wonderful stuff here, just wonderful.

Hang about, you were slaughtering me for using pass completion stats a minute ago? How are you measuring this exactly, because stat so far has gone against you.

Cesc PL assists 2009/10= 13, 2010/11=11
Ozil LL assists 2010/11=17

Those are some stats with both playing number 10, again what you are saying is not objectively untrue.

It's interesting you used cescs worst season and ozils best in the comparison and also neglect the fact he played 9 and 11 less games than ozil in your comparison also the fact ozil played with far superior players

So all things considered Cesc still had a better assist/game ratio than ozil playing in a far worse team.

Since when has ozil in his career ever displayed a passing range similar to that of xavi, cesc type players would you also say ozil is a better passer than xavi and pirlo?

Your bias is hilarious

Also that other guys stat pretty much backs up my point he's got the best final pass around

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 1365

baconbutty

Also according to bbc when Cesc played in his favoured position:

Fabregas has created more chances than any other player in Europe's top five divisions (England's Premier League, Spain's La Liga, Italy's Serie A, France's Ligue 1 and Germany's Bundesliga) since 2006-07.
With 466 chances to his name, he eclipses the likes of Barca's Xavi, Frank Lampard of Chelsea, Roma's David Pizarro, Steven Gerrard of Liverpool and Roma's Francesco Totti.

So I don't know where you got this ozil creates more chances *******s from

So we've learnt Cesc has a better final ball, most chances created when they play in their favourite position, better game to assist ratio but ozil is the better passer makes sense

l this playing in an inferior team to ozil

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 1366

ZÃ¼rich

Original post by baconbutty

It's interesting you used cescs worst season and ozils best in the comparison and also neglect the fact he played 9 and 11 less games than ozil in your comparison also the fact ozil played with far superior players

So all things considered Cesc still had a better assist/game ratio than ozil playing in a far worse team.

Since when has ozil in his career ever displayed a passing range similar to that of xavi, cesc type players would you also say ozil is a better passer than xavi and pirlo?

Also that other guys stat pretty much backs up my point he's got the best final pass around

Just pulled the stats off whoscored.com but they only go back to 2009.

In terms of assists per minute, Ozil is ahead. Cesc is on 136 for 2009/10, 144 for 2010/11, 195 for 2011/12, 164 for 2012/13 and 129 for 2013/14 whereas Ozil is on 133 for 2011/12, 126 for 2012/13 and an admittedly poor 213 for 2013/14 at AFC.
You can talk about Ozil playing with Real Madrid players etc, but at Werder Bremenin 2009/10 he managed 152.

Reply 1367

De Chirico

Ozil has a cooler name than Fabregas too.

Reply 1368

fallen_acorns

Transfer windows and the off season are by a long way the worse time to be on these threads..

Reply 1369

baconbutty

Original post by Zürich

Fabregas was doing it in premier league peak years the bundesliga isn't comparable his best seasons for assists were 07/08 and 08/09 in terms of assists to mins as well

Reply 1370

ZÃ¼rich

Original post by baconbutty

Fabregas was doing it in premier league peak years the bundesliga isn't comparable his best seasons for assists were 07/08 and 08/09 in terms of assists to mins as well

Ozil excels at Real: ''Doesnt count coz Real are brilliant''
Ozil excels at Werder Bremen: ''Doesnt count coz Werder are ****''

What's next, Marco Reus' stats dont count since he's also a bundesliga player? :rolleyes:

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 1371

The Chosen Wum

[video="youtube;IQ0bR0Y6ZXE"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQ0bR0Y6ZXE[/video]

What a bunch of loosers.

Reply 1372

baconbutty

Original post by Zürich

I'm just someone who finds it better doing it in the strongest league in the world rather than the 4th best but each to their own

Still lolling at you thinking ozil is the better passer it's like you've never watched either of them

also don't get what your Bremen stat is supposed to show that he can be inferior to fabregas in a far poorer league?

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 1373

The Chosen Wum

And ma boi Jackie get's bashed instead :rolleyes:

Reply 1374

qwerty_mad

Original post by The Chosen Wum

And ma boi Jackie get's bashed instead :rolleyes:

When's that pic from??

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 1375

pane123

Original post by baconbutty

If you were to look at the 12/13 season, when Ozil and Cesc played in the same league, Ozil was by far the better provider of assists. Cesc provided a better goal scoring rate, but only marginally.

They are both sublime players, but Ozil is more effective in "the hole".