This discussion is now closed.

Check out other Related discussions

The Israel/Palestine Conflict Mk. IV

Look at these despicable people pack up and run.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=46b_1406060784

Basic gist:

BBC rock up to this Israeli town, start broadcasting their pro-palestinian bull. These two citizens ask if they can give their side of events. The BBC refuses.

The lady rightly lambasts the BBC for ignoring years of rocket attacks and only reporting when Israel starts to retaliate.

Despicable BBC.

Definitely my last thread for the day :biggrin:

a very feisty lady !! not what the Beeb were hoping to hear :colondollar:

Reply 1701

Agapelove

5

Original post by ahmadalkarute

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you are a kind hearted person, so I will not reply to you caustically.

Thank you.

The problem is that you are misinformed about many of the subjects I spoke of, but this is common in the USA. I have lived there, I listened, and I was brainwashed for a long time.

Everyone can be accused of being brainwashed, just in different ways. This lovely Palestinian lady is brainwashed, though in a very dangerous and lethal way:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3Y0FJnYarg

1. The Ottoman Empire didn't give them a state because no empire, and no country has ever willingly given up land. Every centimeter of land in profitable, so sadly they were unwilling to give us a state.

The English Empire has of its own accord given up land. I don't know how willingly they have done it, but I do think they eventually thought it was the right thing to do.

2. If you look at the way the land was divided during the Oshlo accord, and how it is now you will see why a two state solution does not work. Palestine/Israel is a tiny area that was split. Israel received 2/3 and Arabs 1/3. That made Arabs unhappy. Also, the majority of the Palestinian lands were surrounded by Israeli lands. To travel from one area to another you had to cross into Israel (that would give Israel control over Palestinian trade which is a huge no no when it comes to having a country). Next, Israel build illegal settlements on the MINUTE Palestinian land. these settlements were connected by roads (taking more land). I could go on and on about how Israel never planned on having a Palestinian country. they surround the small arab areas by walls, and try to make their lives horrible so that the people migrate.

Thanks for explaining. However, why are the Arabs wanting another Arab state? Aren't there enough Arab states as it is? Why can't they allow a Jewish state? There is no other Jewish state. The USA, while some Muslims claim that the USA is a Jewish state, is not. We have Jewish and Arab, African and German, Dutch and English, French and Spanish... we are a melting pot, though a majority English ancestry state/country.

3. I think that the majority of arabs are descendants of Abraham, but I do not know enough to answer this question with any backing

I read an article that due to Arab conquests, many of the conquered peoples took on Arabic and Arab culture, hence became Arabs. However, I think that the majority of Arabs are descendants of Abraham too, which is why I think they should be kind to their distant cousins, the Jews, and Jews should be kind to Arabs too. Being kind doesn't mean to agree with one, just rather be respectful and caring towards each other in spite of disagreements.

4. The jews conquered some one the Canaanite lands but not all. What happened was: Canaanites conquered this land from idk who, then the Jews came and conquered a portion of the land, but the Canaanites (now a minority remained). Then both groups were taken over by the Assyrians I think.

The Babylonians conquered Israel and deported many Jewish people into Babylon (now Iraq) but when King Cyrus of Persia allowed the Jewish people to go back and rebuild Jerusalem, that's when the first regeneration of Israel began.

5. Yes, only God knows, but sadly we do not have his wisdom.

Amen

We can only rely on what we know. What we know is that Jews lived here, they were conquered by the Assyrians and intermingled with their empire. Many moved and lived in Europe or remained in the land. In Europe the mixed with Europeans such as the Germanic tribes and the Vikings. They stayed longer and mixed more. If they stayed in the Arab lands they mixed with Arabs. The idea or pure blood is impossible.

Mixed is fine. I'm mixed. Much of the world is mixed now. :smile:

However, even though I'm mixed, I still know I'm some Anglo and some Celtic though I'm not pure Anglo or Celtic. If I ever travel to the UK, I would feel 'special' in knowing my ancestors migrated from there to the USA, you know what I mean? :smile:

I'm sure the Jewish people, despite whatever mix they have, feel 'special' when they go to the land of Israel. As a Christian, I would feel so special to visit Israel and walk where Jesus walked. That is one of my dreams. I don't want to live in Israel, but I would love to do a pilgrimage there. I don't know if that's possible now. :frown:

6. You are right, violence is not the answer,

Ameen amen and amen! :smile:

but many people are uneducated and do not know how to deal with it any other way. there are many peaceful protests., but If you watch 5 broken camera a documentary of a man who recorded protests in his village, you will see the outcome of peaceful protests. People in the protests are harassed by soldiers, beaten, and shot at. you will see in the documentary that the man recording was shot multiple times. His brother was shot and died, and he showed no threat to the officers. If you do not believe me, please watch the documentary. it was recorded by a man with a simple video camera, nothing fancy, but it show what goes on.

That is sad and wrong. :frown:

I do think that Israel is being very unkind, and that is not helping anyone.

7. thank you for that info. I would reply, but I know very little about the bible.

The Bible is very interesting, in my opinion. The Qur'an is interesting too, though I disagree with many of its points.

8. I think your image of the migration is slightly misconstrued. The jews did buy the land from the UK (which should not have happened since it was not their land to sell-The land was mandate land. At the end of the World War they stated that their only goal was to help the Palestinians create a country, not give one to the misplaced jews). When jews first started coming in, there were no problems. When more started coming, there were still no problems. Then, when the Jews started attacking Arabs and forcing them off of their land, problems began. If you go look at any timeline, even on BBC(a news station cluttered with western propaganda), you will see that many "terrorist attacks" by the jews occurred. they blew up buildings and attacked civilians, and in 1948 they began the massacres, and displacement of people. If you read The Lemon Tree you will read a story of a man who came back to see his old house, and speaking to the woman who lived there. The book shows all the propaganda told to jewish civilians who moved to Israel. The woman tells the man that she was told that the family left by choice, and she had no idea that people were killed etc...

Have you heard of the Balfour Declaration of November 1917? The English government advocated creating a homeland for the Jewish people, and one of the ways they started this was by selling land in Palestine to Jewish immigrants.

9. This conflict is not one about religion. Zionism is not religious, and they are not fighting for their religion. Zionism was created to find a land for the jews because they were mistreated everywhere else.

King David was a Zionist. The city of David is called Zion. King David conquered the Jebusites and took over the city of Jerusalem, which became the capital of the Jewish state of Israel and the place of the holy temple.

They chose Palestine because it had religious ties to Judaism, so they could persuade the international community, and the rest of the jewish community easily easily.

Their choice of Israel/Judea's place, where King David had been King, is prophecy from God to Israel fulfilled.

REAL Islam has no problem with Judaism, and I find it hilarious that you so nonchalantly state that Muslims despise jews.

Did Muhammad not have an issue with Jewish people in Arabia who didn't accept his claims? Yes or no? What did Muhammad do to Jewish people in Arabia who did not accept him? Do you know that he killed some Jewish people, enslaved some Jewish women and children, forced other Jewish people to pay the jizya, and expelled others? Did you know that Jewish people and Christians were expelled out of Arabia after Muhammad's death?

we have no hatred for jews, and real Muslims are taught to treat everyone fairly no matter their religion.

The Qur'an seems full of hatred for Jewish people who do not accept Muhammad's teachings.

It is also funny that you throw out this idea of casually giving the jews the land. lets put this into perspective for you. lets say that the state that you live in somehow had religious meaning to some religion. people came in and started living there. you were fine with it because they didn't affect you, and they abided by the laws. then, lets say they started telling people that they had to leave certain densely populated areas of the state, and the people that didn't listen were attacked. As this is occurring, these religious people have international backing so they can do whatever they want. eventually they develop their own government and their own rules, and these rules oftentimes feel unfair, and the government also aids those who attack the people in your state if they are not apart of this religious group. Would you just sit there and take this? would you just hand them the state? I doubt it. This is the mentality of the Arabs (Muslim and Christian alike), anddddd we also have religious ties to this land. It makes sense that we would not want to give it up.

I know Christian Arabs who support Israel's right to exist. Do you support Israel's right to exist? Just curious.

By the way, what would you think if Arabia was destroyed, including the holy cities of Mecca and Medina? What would you think if Arabs fled Arabia, settled in distant lands, and then their descendants came back to the land of Arabia, yet found Jewish people for example living there? Should the Jewish people fight the descentants of the Arabs, or should they welcome them back and allow them to rebuild their holy cities and the ka'ba?

I hope this helps with your understanding of the conflict. feel free to ask more questions.

Thanks. If you could answer the questions above, I would appreciate it.

Reply 1702

UniOfLife

12

Original post by Al-farhan

I did answer you in my post.
But if you want I will explain:
I do not not believe in putting a number quota on civilian death a massacre could be perpetrated on ten people as long as the force in overall control, strength and ability kills victims which are helpless to their onslaught.
Plus it is not clear what you are trying to get at from this point?!!

Thank you. I didn't see that in your previous post and apologies for that.

What I am getting at is that you have now said that it would be a massacre if even ten people in Gaza die because Israel has a powerful army and the Palestinians have no army to defend themselves. In that case, is there any way Israel can use force to stop Hamas firing rockets at them without you calling it a massacre?

Reply 1703

Apocrypha

15

Original post by TsR001

There is no SET level of deaths per day before you call it a massacre, but when you COMPARE the civilian death lately: 650+:2 ....... That is clearly a massacre... What possible reason can u give for retaliating to your civilians being killed by killing 300X more...

On a bigger scale, Say 6 Million innocent jews were killed by Hamas (same number as those killed in the holocaust) , this would mean the Israelis would retaliate by killing equivalent of 1.8 BILLION Muslims

So are you telling me that Hamas would never attack Israeli civilians?

Youre misunderstanding the fact that they fire rockets on a daily basis for years on end hoping to hit an innocent civilians house.

Reply 1704

RoyalBlue7

19

Original post by Apocrypha

You think the killing will stop and there will be peace if Israel stops its "massacre"? Why is everyone blind to the reasoning behind Israel's actions???? It is incredibly strange to me that people bypass every offense that Israels neighbouring countries have waged on it, and just call Israel terrorists.

What political motives do you think Israel have?

What is Israel for it to have political motives? Its the regime I say. I think its obvious.

The permanent solution would be for history to reverse itself. Let all those Jewish settlers go back to where they came from. The Holocaust is a thing of the past. Let those Jews who lived in peace with the Ottomans for centuries stay. You have my word - then there will be peace.

The Zionists have made sure that's only a dream. They have to bear the consequences of occupying another nation's land. :frown:

Reply 1705

Apocrypha

15

[QUOTE="TsR001;48679327"]

Original post by Apocrypha

Talking about how amazing they are?? You are fuc*ing deluded mate

You casually make Hamas sound like an innocent victim of Israeli aggression, this is pure lies, my friend you're the one who is deluded.

Reply 1706

DiddyDec01

3

Original post by Chindits

Look at these despicable people pack up and run.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=46b_1406060784

Basic gist:

BBC rock up to this Israeli town, start broadcasting their pro-palestinian bull. These two citizens ask if they can give their side of events. The BBC refuses.

The lady rightly lambasts the BBC for ignoring years of rocket attacks and only reporting when Israel starts to retaliate.

Despicable BBC.

Definitely my last thread for the day :biggrin:

JIDF?

Reply 1707

TsR001

Original post by Sic semper erat

Tonight's news:

The EU's foreign ministers, following a monthly meeting in Brussels, issued a statement on the Middle East condemning “the indiscriminate firing of rockets into Israel by Hamas and militant groups in the Gaza Strip, directly harming civilians. These are criminal and unjustifiable acts.”

The statement also called on Hamas to immediately put an end to its rocket attacks, and to renounce violence. “All terrorist groups in Gaza must disarm. The EU strongly condemns calls on the civilian population of Gaza to provide themselves as human shields. “

Maybe the EU's foreign ministers should realise that Hamas has killed TWO Israeli civilians, and they are 'directly harming civilians'?? How about Israel killing 650+ civilians, are they not directly harming civilians, or doesnt it count because poor israel are ALWAYS the victims :confused:

.... What seems more criminal and unjustifiable to you, 2 civilian deaths or 650+? Please attempt to justify 650 individual innocent men, WOMEN and CHILDREN being massacred in retaliation to 2 Israelis being killed?

Reply 1708

UniOfLife

12

Original post by TsR001

There is no SET level of deaths per day before you call it a massacre, but when you COMPARE the civilian death lately: 650+:2 ....... That is clearly a massacre... What possible reason can u give for retaliating to your civilians being killed by killing 300X more on the other side...

On a bigger scale, Say 6 Million innocent jews were killed by Hamas (same number as those killed in the holocaust) , this would mean the Israelis would retaliate by killing equivalent of 1.8 BILLION Muslims

I don't want to engage you in debate because you are angry and swear. But I do want to respond to this claim.

The claim is that Israel is wrong because only 2 of its civilians have died and a lot more Palestinians have.

In many wars throughout history, the aggressors have ended up losing many more people than the defenders. That is why they lost the war. This was certainly the case in WW2 for example. Were the Allied powers wrong because more Germans died than British? Hardly.

Furthermore, the argument purports to be a moral one but without any moral content. It would have us believe that if I punch you once you may only punch me once back and then wait until I punch you again before punching me again. This is self evidently a stupid argument. Moreover, you would have us believe that if someone attacks you intending to kill you and you kill them first then you are morally wrong since the death rates are now 1 for them and none for you. Clearly, the numbers alone are not enough to determine a moral position.

Finally, the callousness of this argument is pretty staggering. You don't so much care that lots of Palestinians have died. Its more that not enough Israelis had died. If 600 Israelis had died then it would be OK for 600 Palestinians to die too. And that is quite a horrible position to take.

Reply 1709

Apocrypha

15

Original post by RoyalBlue7

What is Israel for it to have political motives? Its the regime I say. I think its obvious.

The permanent solution would be for history to reverse itself. Let all those Jewish settlers go back to where they came from. The Holocaust is a thing of the past. Let those Jews who lived in peace with the Ottomans for centuries stay. You have my word - then there will be peace.

The Zionists have made sure that's only a dream. They have to bear the consequences of occupying another nation's land. :frown:

A complete reversal of history? The thing i find silly about this conflict is that the muslim attackers promise what is essentially Israel as it is now, only that it is a Muslim country.

They arent fighting against oppression, they are fighting against secularism, and my friend, secularism will always win.

Reply 1710

TsR001

[QUOTE="Apocrypha;48679461"]

Original post by TsR001

You casually make Hamas sound like an innocent victim of Israeli aggression, this is pure lies, my friend you're the one who is deluded.

And YOU casually make Israel look like the victims of the vicious Hamas(who have killed TWO israeli civilians)... Are Israel really the victims when they have killed 300X more civilans than hamas?

Reply 1711

Apocrypha

15

[QUOTE="TsR001;48679601"]

Original post by Apocrypha

And YOU casually make Israel look like the victims of the vicious Hamas(who have killed TWO israeli civilians)... Are Israel really the victims when they have killed 300X more civilans than hamas?

Hamas has only killed 2 Israeli civilians because they are a pathetic force in comparison, it's their choice to wage a war when the odds are out of their favour, their war is based on political motives based on religion.

That is not a legitimate reason for aggression in the 21st century.

Reply 1712

The_Internet

20

Original post by Chindits

March 1st 1920. the Jewish village of Tel Hai was attacked by an Arab terrorist group

This is seen as one of the first attacks carried out by Arabs in order to rid the land of the indigenous Jews.

How on earth can Arabs belong in Israel, when Israel is not geographically in Arabia?

Anyway, first significant attack came from the Arabs. They carried out four other raids against Jewish villages after that before the Arab revolt.

The 'palestinians' tried to ethnically cleanse the indigenous Jewish population and failed.

This is why they were later allied with Hitler to have another go - and failed.

Anyway, let's not derail the thread. This is about the cowardly BBC being caught out distributing propaganda and then high-tailing it like the rats that they are.

I saw this recently

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=687862114638249

It was certainly interesting

(Not that I agree with their ways and means however)

Reply 1713

Chindits

Original post by ineedtorevise127

Compare Gaza to Israel the rich poor divide is too vast.

'palestinians' get more aid per capita than anyone else on earth.

They've spent all their money and all the cement on rockets and tunnels.

Arafat was reported to have over $1b in the bank when he died.

I have no sympathy for the perennial terrorists.

Reply 1714

Agapelove

5

Original post by RoyalBlue7

As a pacifist unorthodox Christian I guess the notion of right by conquest misses you, especially when you skip the biblical stories of King Solomon and King David and talk about God's sudden change of mind to command us to love our enemies? .

King David is pre-Jesus. Jesus did not tell the people in King David's time and afterward to love their enemies. He told the people in his time and afterward to love their enemies.

Tell me what internationally law or truces or conventions the early Caliphate violated when in "conquered" Jerusalem or rather when Jerusalem yielded? None. Today Israel is the only "nation" on the planet to openly flout international law with the blessings of the US or could be called a terrorist organization like Hamas?

Many people in the USA condemn Israel's attacks on Gaza. I personally believe what Israel is doing to the Gaza people is wrong, and I think both they and the Palestinians should love their enemies as Jesus commanded (Matthew 5:44; Luke 6:27-37) instead of trying to kill each other. By the way, I think the USA is wrong for killing innocent people in Afghanistan and Iraq, as well as for murdering thousands of innocent people in Japan. :frown:

Obviously the USA in general does not obey Jesus' commands to love enemies either, which breaks my heart.

You make it sound as if Zionism is religious.

God promised the land of Israel to the children of Israel.

Please see Ezekiel 37
http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16135/jewish/Chapter-37.htm

"And that the fight for the Palestinian cause is a jihad for the Holy Land.

To some Muslims, it is a holy war: a jihad.

If the Zionists could obtain it violently ...still I could as well say that the Jews (Zionists) cannot bear the thought of gentiles in the Temple Mount or Jerusalem in Muslim hands. Its hypocrisy, and statements like those shows clearly what side your biased in favour

As a Gentile Christian, I don't have any interest in going in the Jewish temple, nor do I have any interest in going in the Muslim holy city of Mecca. I do have an interest in going to walk where Jesus walked and talked, but I'm fine with not going into the Jewish temple. Jesus, by the way, was kicked out of the Jewish temple, as well as the Jewish people who followed him.

Reply 1715

TsR001

Original post by UniOfLife

I don't want to engage you in debate because you are angry and swear. But I do want to respond to this claim.

The claim is that Israel is wrong because only 2 of its civilians have died and a lot more Palestinians have.

In many wars throughout history, the aggressors have ended up losing many more people than the defenders. That is why they lost the war. This was certainly the case in WW2 for example. Were the Allied powers wrong because more Germans died than British? Hardly.

Furthermore, the argument purports to be a moral one but without any moral content. It would have us believe that if I punch you once you may only punch me once back and then wait until I punch you again before punching me again. This is self evidently a stupid argument. Moreover, you would have us believe that if someone attacks you intending to kill you and you kill them first then you are morally wrong since the death rates are now 1 for them and none for you. Clearly, the numbers alone are not enough to determine a moral position.

Finally, the callousness of this argument is pretty staggering. You don't so much care that lots of Palestinians have died. Its more that not enough Israelis had died. If 600 Israelis had died then it would be OK for 600 Palestinians to die too. And that is quite a horrible position to take.

I dont know where TF you are going with this response.. You asked what was the borderline for a massacre and i replied , intending to show that what is going on IS a massacre when u compare the numbers. So if 1 person dies on one side, and in retaliation, 300 people are killed on the other side, this isnt an unfair, OTT massacre? Also, it is 'quite a horrible position to take' to defend the Child killing Israel

Reply 1716

Chindits

Original post by the bear

a very feisty lady !! not what the Beeb were hoping to hear :colondollar:

How sheepish they were being caught out and then high-tailing it out of there. :biggrin:

Israelis are so fed up with the BBC ignoring them as long as nothing happens IN Gaza. The whole of the South regularly live in bomb shelters and nothing is heard.

The minute Israel hits back, the BBC fire up their propaganda department witch Jeremy Bowen leading the line.

Reply 1717

the bear

20

Original post by Chindits

How sheepish they were being caught out and then high-tailing it out of there. :biggrin:

Israelis are so fed up with the BBC ignoring them as long as nothing happens IN Gaza. The whole of the South regularly live in bomb shelters and nothing is heard.

The minute Israel hits back, the BBC fire up their propaganda department witch Jeremy Bowen leading the line.

Mazel Tov !!

Reply 1718

Inzamam99

16

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/18/cnn-diana-magnay-israel-gaza_n_5598866.html

NEW YORK -- CNN has removed correspondent Diana Magnay from covering the Israeli-Palestinian conflict after she tweeted that Israelis who were cheering the bombing of Gaza, and who had allegedly threatened her, were “scum.”

“After being threatened and harassed before and during a liveshot, Diana reacted angrily on Twitter,” a CNN spokeswoman said in a statement to The Huffington Post.

“She deeply regrets the language used, which was aimed directly at those who had been targeting our crew," the spokeswoman continued. "She certainly meant no offense to anyone beyond that group, and she and CNN apologize for any offense that may have been taken.”

The spokeswoman said Magnay has been assigned to Moscow.

Magnay appeared on CNN Thursday from a hill overlooking the Israel-Gaza border. While she reported, Israelis could be heard near her cheering as missiles were fired at Gaza.

After the liveshot, Magnay tweeted: “Israelis on hill above Sderot cheer as bombs land on #gaza; threaten to ‘destroy our car if I say a word wrong’. Scum.” The tweet was quickly removed, but not before it had been retweeted more than 200 times.

The removal of Magnay comes a day after NBC News pulled Ayman Mohyeldin from Gaza.

NBC's decision to remove the widely praised Mohyeldin, and unwillingness to explain why, has been met with anger and frustration from journalists inside and outside the network.

A source with knowledge of the decision told The Huffington Post that NBC executives cited security concerns. But at the same time Moyheldin was pulled, NBC assigned chief foreign correspondent Richard Engel to Gaza.

One of Mohyeldin's tweets and Facebook posts were recently deleted, a move that has fueled speculation that his social media use could have been the cause for his removal. But the source said the reason given internally by network executives was security.

Reply 1719

DK_Tipp

9

6 month old infant among today's "figures" from Gaza. I guess the child must have been knowingly acting as a human shield for Hamas...

The Israel/Palestine Conflict Mk. IV

Related discussions

Latest

Trending

Trending

Articles for you