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The Israel/Palestine Conflict Mk. IV

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Original post by hallaas
Israel has shown might is right, if you have might, the world does naff all, therefore the might be be obtained, any way, at any cost


I accept that maybe I'd feel that way if I was standing under IDF rockets but the allusion to the holocaust is chilling.

Jewish civilians, like Palestinian civilians have the right to live in peace. Ethnic cleansing is never the answer and always inherently evil.
Original post by ineedtorevise127
they've bombed ambulances


Original post by Snagprophet
If the Israelis are targeting civilians then would you like to tell me why out of over a thousand strikes they have only been able to kill 340 supposed civilians?


I think it's more that fact that they don't give a **** if civilians get killed and are also smart enough not to out right bomb civilians without an alibi. So they make up an alibi that pretty much states that Hamas was in the vicinity.

Every now and then we get a glimpse at what Israel is actually doing and they get caught out when foreign journalists witness it or photographers are in the area. This was the case with the 4 children playing on a beach.
Original post by DK_Tipp
I accept that maybe I'd feel that way if I was standing under IDF rockets but the allusion to the holocaust is chilling.

Jewish civilians, like Palestinian civilians have the right to live in peace. Ethnic cleansing is never the answer and always inherently evil.


The Palestinians are being cleansed anyways, might as well adopt the scorched earth 'nuclear-akin' option and take the filthy zionists with them. Although radioactively poisioning the filthy jewish terrorist organisations water sources at both the Syria and Lebanon borders would be far more effective and easier. Polonium 210 or Radium would be a good solution, with 2-3 week the filthy zionists would all perish
Because Qiyamah is near. That's the answer to almost everything now
Original post by Apocrypha
So it means you can pointlessly rant about them without having any solution that will solve your issue?


What does having a solution have to with anything? Neither Israel nor Hamas would appear to have solutions aside from bombing the s*** out of each other's civilians, the former being responsible for the slaughter of hundreds of innocents.
Original post by Sic semper erat
What has "Palestine" given up? I wasnt aware such a country existed


The whole region, under the British mandate was called Palestine.



How does a defensive action result in the total conquest of someone else's lands? The answer is that it does not. Israel is the aggressor. The maps of Israel then and now prove it.
Original post by hallaas
The Palestinians are being cleansed anyways, might as well adopt the scorched earth 'nuclear-akin' option and take the filthy zionists with them. Although radioactively poisioning the filthy jewish terrorist organisations water sources at both the Syria and Lebanon borders would be far more effective and easier. Polonium 210 or Radium would be a good solution, with 2-3 week the filthy zionists would all perish


You belong in Nazi Germany.

And I say that as somebody more sympathetic towards the Palestinian cause than Israel.
Original post by DK_Tipp


Jewish civilians, like Palestinian civilians have the right to live in peace. Ethnic cleansing is never the answer and always inherently evil.




Modern Israel was available to be founded through ethnic cleansing by loads of Zionist terrorist organizations. People shouldn't forget that.

Palestinian civilians, like Jewish civilians should have the right to live in peace. It should be the other way. Since when did Palestinians "have" any right to live in peace. Every Palestinian home in Gaza is a legitimate target for the Israelis. CNN always talks about this threat and that threat to the Jewish people, but the reality is that threats have been solidified into massacres by the Israeli side.

Its bitter irony it makes me go wild. CNN talks about the tunnels being a threat. Wtf. If that's a threat what do they say about the israeli air strikes? That's not a threat to peace in Palestine. There is NO peace.
Original post by DK_Tipp
You belong in Nazi Germany.

And I say that as somebody more sympathetic towards the Palestinian cause than Israel.


You closet zionist go surrender to the filthy terrorist jews and when they slay you, may you not even be destined to have a grave and if for some god forsaken reason you end up in one, may such a grave reject your filthy corpse.
Original post by hallaas
You closet zionist go surrender to the filthy terrorist jews and when they slay you, may you not even be destined to have a grave and if for some god forsaken reason you end up in one, may such a grave reject your filthy corpse.


So it's Zionism or Jewish Genocide?

We live in a world of depressingly stark choices it seems...
Original post by hallaas
The Palestinians are being cleansed anyways, might as well adopt the scorched earth 'nuclear-akin' option and take the filthy zionists with them. Although radioactively poisioning the filthy jewish terrorist organisations water sources at both the Syria and Lebanon borders would be far more effective and easier. Polonium 210 or Radium would be a good solution, with 2-3 week the filthy zionists would all perish




Guess this is the newest tactic they taught you, troll
Original post by DK_Tipp
So it's Zionism or Jewish Genocide?

We live in a world of depressingly stark choices it seems...


Afraid so, dog eat dog world, no other way.

Original post by RoyalBlue7
Guess this is the newest tactic they taught you, troll


The occupying jews are the biggest trolling pigs alive, beaten only by the likes of you who support the filth.
Original post by RoyalBlue7
Modern Israel was available to be founded through ethnic cleansing by loads of Zionist terrorist organizations. People shouldn't forget that.

Palestinian civilians, like Jewish civilians should have the right to live in peace. It should be the other way. Since when did Palestinians "have" any right to live in peace. Every Palestinian home in Gaza is a legitimate target for the Israelis. CNN always talks about this threat and that threat to the Jewish people, but the reality is that threats have been solidified into massacres by the Israeli side.

Its bitter irony it makes me go wild. CNN talks about the tunnels being a threat. Wtf. If that's a threat what do they say about the israeli air strikes? That's not a threat to peace in Palestine. There is NO peace.


What's your point? I can't disagree with anything you have said. Both Israeli and Palestinian civilians have the right to live peacefully, for one that right is threatened by Hamas, for the other it is obliterated by the IDF.

I don't live in the US. I live in Ireland, a nation which hosted Yasser Arafat before it allowed an Israeli embassy, a nation which Israel has accused of trying to set an anti-Israeli agenda in Europe so it's not like we're being fed Zionist propaganda.
Original post by DK_Tipp
What's your point? I can't disagree with anything you have said. Both Israeli and Palestinian civilians have the right to live peacefully, for one that right is threatened by Hamas, for the other it is obliterated by the IDF.

I don't live in the US. I live in Ireland, a nation which hosted Yasser Arafat before it allowed an Israeli embassy, a nation which Israel has accused of trying to set an anti-Israeli agenda in Europe so it's not like we're being fed Zionist propaganda.


A nation nevertheless which recognises the filthy jewish terror organisation, the Irish of all should know better, should know better, oh the pity of it all, the pity.

Everyone can be accused of being brainwashed, just in different ways. This lovely Palestinian lady is brainwashed, though in a very dangerous and lethal way:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3Y0FJnYarg


- that's true. I do believe every group of people has some sort of brainwashing, but the recent trend is the brainwashing of people to trust that western culture and choices are the best, and its a bit disappointing. many people lose faith in God, and even lose their humanity. The second America says they're going to attack someone, people now think its ok without thinking twice about it (obviously there are exceptions, but you get what im saying)



The English Empire has of its own accord given up land. I don't know how willingly they have done it, but I do think they eventually thought it was the right thing to do.


-- I do not believe the empire ever gave up land unless it hurt their economy or their reputation. Ex: they kept America and earned money and natural recourses from the country until the people fought back and they were loosing money from the destroyed ships, dead troops, and the money they were spending implementing their laws. They also had India until Gandhi. Gandhi was not able to persuade them to give up the land in court, so he had to protest, and they lost lots of money and international support through embargos.

Thanks for explaining. However, why are the Arabs wanting another Arab state? Aren't there enough Arab states as it is? Why can't they allow a Jewish state? There is no other Jewish state. The USA, while some Muslims claim that the USA is a Jewish state, is not. We have Jewish and Arab, African and German, Dutch and English, French and Spanish... we are a melting pot, though a majority English ancestry state/country.


- Arab's want an Arab state because if you look at the world's view of Arab's you see that they shun and disapprove of them oftentimes. They feel like the whole world is against them, and so they have no protection. they have to protect themselves. Russia is in a similar situation. Russia does not conform with the west and so Europe is slowly trying to dismantle it. the USSR failed in '92 and they lost a large portion of their land. Now the EU is enticing many countries between Russia and the rest of Europe into the EU although they are in the Eurasian Union. Once these countries join their sphere of influence will spread. Once it spread, they will take more parts of Russia until it conforms and turns into another "western" country. Having Israel in the middle of all these Arab states is harmful. If Israel actually was peaceloving there would not be a problem. Like turkey, Arabs love Turkey though they are not Arab. The problem is that once Israel finishes its problems in its own country, it will try to expand. If you look at their maps of the size Israel should be, you'll see that they want to take Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, and portions of another country.

I read an article that due to Arab conquests, many of the conquered peoples took on Arabic and Arab culture, hence became Arabs. However, I think that the majority of Arabs are descendants of Abraham too, which is why I think they should be kind to their distant cousins, the Jews, and Jews should be kind to Arabs too. Being kind doesn't mean to agree with one, just rather be respectful and caring towards each other in spite of disagreements.

- Interesting, and I agree


The Babylonians conquered Israel and deported many Jewish people into Babylon (now Iraq) but when King Cyrus of Persia allowed the Jewish people to go back and rebuild Jerusalem, that's when the first regeneration of Israel began.

- thank you for informing me. I did not mean to misinform anyone.



Mixed is fine. I'm mixed. Much of the world is mixed now. :smile: However, even though I'm mixed, I still know I'm some Anglo and some Celtic though I'm not pure Anglo or Celtic. If I ever travel to the UK, I would feel 'special' in knowing my ancestors migrated from there to the USA, you know what I mean? :smile: I'm sure the Jewish people, despite whatever mix they have, feel 'special' when they go to the land of Israel. As a Christian, I would feel so special to visit Israel and walk where Jesus walked. That is one of my dreams. I don't want to live in Israel, but I would love to do a pilgrimage there. I don't know if that's possible now. :frown:

- yes, and I feel special when I came to live in Jerusalem also. My family on the other side of the wall feels special when they were aloud to visit the al-Aqsa mosque 2 months back. they didn't leave it the whole time they were hear (they live half an hour away, but have not been aloud to visit it. My uncle hasn't seen it since he was a teenager, and his daughter who is 18 has never seen it before other than on tv). My point in saying all this is that everyone should have the right to visit the land. I never said I would like to forbid the jews from visiting, or living here. I just think that oppressing the other people that live here isn't the right way to go about it.




That is sad and wrong. :frown: I do think that Israel is being very unkind, and that is not helping anyone.


- I agree

The Bible is very interesting, in my opinion. The Qur'an is interesting too, though I disagree with many of its points.

- well I guess that is common. that is why you are not a muslim :P. I would like to thoroughly read one day



Have you heard of the Balfour Declaration of November 1917? The English government advocated creating a homeland for the Jewish people, and one of the ways they started this was by selling land in Palestine to Jewish immigrants.

- I have heard of, read, and been educated about the circumstances of this declaration (by an American teacher. he was neither pro Palestine, nor Israel). This declaration was sent to the Jews without the Arabs knowing. Anyway I was talking about before the declaration (sorry for not specifying). before the declaration Arabs were told that they'd have their own country, that is why they made their own flag and coins and everything.

King David was a Zionist. The city of David is called Zion. King David conquered the Jebusites and took over the city of Jerusalem, which became the capital of the Jewish state of Israel and the place of the holy temple.

- the word Zionist back then has a different meaning than the word now.

Their choice of Israel/Judea's place, where King David had been King, is prophecy from God to Israel fulfilled.

- I do believe it is a prophecy that they believe in, but as a religious Jew told me here: the prophecy never said anything about massacres and apartheid, that is why I do not support Israel. If you meet an orthodox Jew one day, you should talk to them. They usually disapprove of the creation of Israel.

Did Muhammad not have an issue with Jewish people in Arabia who didn't accept his claims? Yes or no? What did Muhammad do to Jewish people in Arabia who did not accept him? Do you know that he killed some Jewish people, enslaved some Jewish women and children, forced other Jewish people to pay the jizya, and expelled others? Did you know that Jewish people and Christians were expelled out of Arabia after Muhammad's death?

- I think that what you have been taught is wrong. I know that he conquered areas to spread Islam, but he did not go killing and enslaving civilians. Prophet Mohammad was actually known for his hatred for slavery. Slavery was not aloud during his time. Did you know he also developed one of the first democratic systems.

People that lived in a Muslim owned area did have to pay Jizya. it was a taxes every nonmuslim had to pay. would you like to know why muslims did not pay it? Muslims did not pay it because they had to pay Zakkat. This zakat is a percentage of your annual earnings that you pay every Eid. this money goes to feeding and housing the poor. The nonmuslims paid this in the form of jizya because he did not want to impose his religions on them, but if they did not pay people would go hungry, so he found a middle ground.

I understand that our teachings are different. I am also taught negative things about Christianity and Judaism. this is what you were talking about with the everyone being brainwashed. Anyway it was so long ago that we don't really know the truth. All we know is what we hear, and we have to choose whether or not we believe it.



The Qur'an seems full of hatred for Jewish people who do not accept Muhammad's teachings.

- it is not hatred, it is more of warning. It tells nonbelieves to beware. We believe that those who were not properly educated about our religion will not be punished. As you know, muslims believe in both Christianity and Judaism, but we believed that the books have been changed and the teachings perverted.

I know Christian Arabs who support Israel's right to exist. Do you support Israel's right to exist? Just curious.

- I do not support the right of the country called "Israel",with all its current apartheidal laws, to exist. I do support the idea of Jews remaining here and living with Arabs, and developing a fair system that we can both live under.

By the way, what would you think if Arabia was destroyed, including the holy cities of Mecca and Medina? What would you think if Arabs fled Arabia, settled in distant lands, and then their descendants came back to the land of Arabia, yet found Jewish people for example living there? Should the Jewish people fight the descentants of the Arabs, or should they welcome them back and allow them to rebuild their holy cities and the ka'ba?


- I think they should invite them back to live with them, but I do not think that they should leave. I do not believe Arabs fought the jews (obviously small instances of hatred occur in every country, but I am just talking about the majority here) until the jews started forcing the idea of a jewish state just for jew upon them. Another problem is that mecca and medina are only holy to Muslims. Jerusalem is holy to muslims, Christians, and jews. So, anyone that wants to live here should be able to.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by felamaslen
I agree. So why not condemn Hamas for targeting exclusively civilians, other than when the IDF is finally provoked into invading?


I would but it's fighting in a constant war and in war, the proportion of civilians is comparably low.

I am not in a position to judge whether or not that is the case, because I am not the one trying to defeat Hamas. What I do know is that given the superior weaponry that Israel possesses, its objective cannot be the murder of civilians, because if it were, it would have been much more successful at it than it has been.


So it has showed restraint?

You can't skirt around the issue. Either it has showed restraint or it has been disproportionate.

If Israel appeases Hamas, the war will not end. They tried appeasing it in 2005, and the war did not end or even become any less violent.


So what is it that the Palestinians actually want?

Not necessarily. I am pointing out that one side targets civilians, while the other tries not to hit civilians.


The fact that it has factored in the possibility that civilians may be hit and still goes ahead with the bombing makes it seem like it is worse than HAMAS.

It makes it much more calculated and thus it is pre-meditated that at least one civilian will die. But it still goes ahead with the operation. That is not the action of a side "which does not target civilians"...

I didn't assume it was a he. It's just that in English and many other languages, the default is "he" until you know the sex.


Apologies. I was under the misapprehension that you were being wilfully ignorant.

Anyway, shame on that MP. She should not be allowed in the Knesset with such views. But remember, the Jewish Home party is a fringe party. Hamas is the governing party of the Gaza strip. So it is a false comparison.


HAMAS was also a "fringe party" when it started off...

Hamas call for the creation of an Islamic totalitarian state and the destruction of the liberal democratic Jewish state. Likud call for the prevention of the creation of a Palestinian state. There is no comparison.


It doesn't matter what "kind" of state they both call for. The fact is that both want to deny the other a state.

Your hatred of Islamism is warping your mind in regards to this conflict. I've noticed that a lot in these discussions...

Whatever, it's a moot point.


So why did you raise it?
Original post by Meenglishnogood
:confused:hmmm, the 'migration' of a large heavily armed army of arabs laying siege to the gates of jerusalem.

http://nickvoss.wordpress.com/2011/01/08/islamic-conquests-the-siege-of-jerusalem/

when you read this , you see that the israelis are acting quite moderatly in comparison.

im glad 'immigration' is not undertaken like this today


I suggest you learn the difference between military conquest and immigration conquest...

Original post by Meenglishnogood
not really, you can be anti hilter and his nazi propaganda machine without being anti german population. they were also sheep

there is nothing in the quran that says hamas should fire rockets in order to prevent jews from governing palestine. perhaps you should read it.


That's a fallacy as:

Naziism =/= Germany.


You need to let go of your comfort blanket which is Islam and instead concentrate on the conflict at hand.
(edited 9 years ago)
Al Qassam state that they have hit an F16 plane with a surface-to-air missile.

Qatar makes an unprecedented trip to Saudi Arabia.

Netanyahu begged John Kerry to get the FAA to lift it's ban but this was rejected.

A Palestinian was killed by a rubber bullet in clashes in the WB.

The UN Human Rights Council is expected to investigate the IDF operation.
Original post by tsr1269
I suggest you learn the difference between military conquest and immigration conquest...


i think you simply made up the latter . the arabs lay seige to jerusalem with their army, killing any parties that were bringing supplies, thereby starving the city to death, forcing them to surrender. nothing to do with 'immigration'

the arabs started the principle of seizing land (ancient romans excepted)

so again, your obsession to critisise the israelis is idiotic.


Original post by tsr1269

That's a fallacy as:

Naziism = Germany.


You need to let go of your comfort blanket which is Islam and instead concentrate on the conflict at hand.

germany was in the grasp of the naziis ( at that time) and most of the muslim world is these days being told what opinion to have on political matters by islamists - also coincidentally , drawing them into various pointless conflicts all over the globe

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