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The Israel/Palestine Conflict Mk. IV

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Original post by well in the dark

Yes, send all the European foreigners back whence they came. They have homes back there anyway, they speak those languages, their last names are European last names, they only ever come to Israel on holiday to reap the privileges of being Zionist Jews. There were Palestinian Jews prior to the inception of the state of Israel and they're the only ones who can stay.

by this logic we must also ship back to the arabian deserts all the arab foreigners that came to palestine when they conquered it too. they didnt have palestinian names, they came to reap the riches of jerusalem

Reply 1781

tsr1269

Original post by Meenglishnogood

i think you simply made up the latter . the arabs lay seige to jerusalem with their army, killing any parties that were bringing supplies, thereby starving the city to death, forcing them to surrender. nothing to do with 'immigration'

the arabs started the principle of seizing land (ancient romans excepted)

so again, your obsession to critisise the israelis is idiotic.

As expected, you cannot distinguish between a military conquest and a conquest via mass immigration.

germany was in the grasp of the naziis ( at that time) and most of the muslim world is these days being told what opinion to have on political matters by islamists - also coincidentally , drawing them into various pointless conflicts all over the globe

As I have clearly stated to you:

Naziism =/= Germany.

You seem to think Islamism and Muslim are two different entities when one simply complements the other. (This is a discussion for the religion sub forum and any posts which do not touch upon the topic thread at hand will be dealt with accordingly)...

Original post by RoyalBlue7

How do you live with that much hatred in you? I know of someone who grew much hatred towards Islam that he couldn't speak without his tongue speaking ill of the Koran. Its a dangerous path to take.

How is wanting the Jewish people and the Arab people to love each other hateful? How is being ashamed of my own country for not loving our enemies and for attacking the people in Afghanistan and Iraq, as well as nuking 2 cities in Japan, hateful?

Now, this quote that the Grand Mufti el-Husseini said via radio in March of 1944 is most definitely hateful and sad:
(I boldened his quote.)

'Arabs! Rise as one and fight for your sacred rights. Kill the Jews wherever you find them. This pleases God, history and religion. This saves your honor. God is with you'"-Grand Mufti el-Husseini

This man who said the above joined Hitler. Hitler as we know was a very hateful man towards the Jewish people.

For more info, please see
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmuUvzVzA9k

Grand Mufti el-Husseinis quote reminds me of the following hadith, which to some Muslims is considered authentic:
(I boldened some in all the quotes below.)

Sahih Muslim, Book 041, Hadith Number 6985
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.
http://www.hadithcollection.com/sahihmuslim/169-Sahih%20Muslim%20Book%2041.%20Turmoil%20And%20Portents%20Of%20The%20Last%20Hour/15311-sahih-muslim-book-041-hadith-number-6985.html

In the Quran, fighting the People of the Book (which includes Jewish people in Arabia) was advocated, and Muhammad wants Allah's curse on the Jews and Christians:

'9:29 (Y. Ali) Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
9:30 (Y. Ali) The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!'

However, Jesus Christ, the Jewish Messiah, said to bless those who curse you:

Luke 6:27-37 (NIV)
²⁷But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, ²⁸bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.

Muhammad sadly did not obey Jesus Christs commands to love their enemies, much like the Israelis in general are not obeying Jesus commands to love enemies, much like the Palestinians in general are not obeying Jesus commands to love their enemies, much like the Americans are not obeying Jesus commands to love enemies.

The Jews of ancient Israel failed God. Again and again. They are cravens to yield Jerusalem to the Muslims. They worshipped the calf when Moses was still with them!

God punished them and forgave those He did not kill. The prophecies and promises of the Tanakh, the Jewish Scriptures, are filled with how God punished the Jewish people for their sins, as well as His forgiving them and always having a remnant of Jewish people, as well as His promise to bring the children of Israel back to land He had given them.

Ezekiel 37 is one such promise:

'37:21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.
37:23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
37:26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
37:27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
37:28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore. '
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Bible/Ezekiel37.html

Some Christians (including me) believe this is a Messianic prophecy which Jesus will fulfill when he returns. We believe he will return to a regenerated Israel. Whether he returns to this regenerated Israel or to a regenerated Israel in the future, only God knows. Hopefully though Israel will not be destroyed again; Israel has already been destroyed 2 times, first by the Babylonians and second by the Romans. Hopefully there is not a third time, by the Muslims.

Muslims are unlike Jews. You would expect the entire Muslim world to die by the sword before they give up Makkah and Medina. Don't create a straw man or anything like it. Zionism lost. Muslims won't flee like cowards.

Nations don't use swords in war anymore. While I think it's horrific, nowadays people can send drones and bombs to kill other people. :frown:

The Koran full of hatred? What about the OT? Want about the explicit racism and the call for genocide in the Torah? Judge the Torah with the same stick and if your honest you would be tearing it apart.

The OT is before Jesus came, teaching about the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus Christ, who is Jewish and followed the Tanakh (OT), taught love. He didnt kill anybody and his apostles who walked and talked with him didnt kill anybody either. Instead, they were persecuted for teaching people about Yesuha (Jesus).

The Qur'an, however, taught fighting against those who did not accept Muhammad's claims.

Muhammad (pbuh) never did any injustice. He didnt punish the Jewish tribe for being Jewish, but for high treason. And that too he asked them to chose their own judge and for them to rule by their Torah. If he wanted to spill Jewish blood he wouldn't have take that many Jewish tribes as his allies.

Muhammad wanted the Jewish people to accept him as their prophet. When they didnt accept him, he got angry with them. Muhammad and his followers did kill some Jewish people of the Qurayza tribe, which is unjust. They also did enslave Jewish women and children, which is unjust. They also did force a jizya, which is unjust. Muhammad also expelled the Jewish tribes of the Qaynuqa in AD 624 and the Nadir in AD 625. which is unjust.

Let's have your say about what God commanded Israel to do in warfare. Yes, kill all the men and children and spare the women for rape.

Where did God command Israel to rape women? As for God's command to kill people who are not soldiers, I do not like that all, nor do I condone it. I am grateful Jesus taught his followers love instead of to kill.

Israel now is in the time period after Jesus, and frankly they are hurting physically the people in Gaza and themselves spiritually by not obeying Jesus command to loving their enemies and neighbors. The USA also is guilty of not obeying Jesus' commands to love their enemies.

Again, I wish that both the Jewish people and the Muslim Arabs would love each other and agree to live as good neighbors in peace in spite of their differences.

Martin Luther King has a great quote which shows what is needed in Palestine and Israel:

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

Reply 1784

Inzamam99

Original post by DK_Tipp

A lot of liberal media sources from within Israel seems to be reporting a rising tide of anti-leftists and anti-Arab sentiment bordering on violence. They're blaming far right elements within the police and Likud.

All sounds a bit facist. I hope the reports are exaggerated. Whatever about the sins of Netanyahu and his cronies not all Israelis deserve to be tarred with that brush.

Just like 100 Palestinian children don't deserve to be bombed to death on account of Hamas...

I had two acquaintances at University both of whom were Israeli secular Jews- from Tel Aviv and Haifa respectively. Both were entirely respectable people and often agreed with me regarding the human rights abuses against the Palestinians.

Regardless there has definitely been an unsurge in the number of outright racist and xenophobic Israelis who are so aptly protected by Liebermann and Netanyahu- both of whom have openly made violent and discriminative statements in public.

Reply 1785

Chindits

Original post by adamsmithqm

I think it's more that fact that they don't give a **** if civilians get killed and are also smart enough not to out right bomb civilians without an alibi. So they make up an alibi that pretty much states that Hamas was in the vicinity.

Classic anti-Israel bigotry.

No matter what Israel does, they are at fault.

According to your 'logic', if they kill too many civilians - they're monsters

If they don't kill so many civilians - they're guilty of not killing too many because of some ridiculous notion about an "alibi"

Amazing how the mind of an anti-Israeli works. It's so hypocritical, but always makes sure any eventuality can be blamed on Israel :biggrin:

Reply 1786

n00

Original post by Chindits

The whole of the South regularly live in bomb shelters and nothing is heard.

Well if it's that regular it's not really news is it.

Reply 1787

King Kebab

They are by people who know about the situation. Every commentator with sense labels Israel a terrorist state and rightly so

Reply 1788

Prince Dunlop

I find it amazing how people condem Gaza.

If I came to your house and kicked you out and your family. Then built my own on that land you will of course try and take me to court. Oh wait, you can't go to court because you are Palestinian, not only that if you complain or riot my man armed to the teeth will aim their rifle at you and your family. And while you are leaving the new family will throw stones at you at call you poor and animals while the soldier stands there and watches.

But that's ok it seems to people who support Israel. They have filled the Nazi shoes perfectly. Even Desmond Tutu called it an apartheid state. The international court declared the developments on the West Bank as illegal. But that's ok because the zionists are right despite this huge breach of human rights. Everyone on TSR shouts loud and proud about human rights, well where are some of these people now? They are supporting a nation that has oppressed a race for decades. I'm just amazed they can sleep at night.

Posted from TSR Mobile

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 1789

Chindits

Original post by Prince Dunlop

I find it amazing how people condem Gaza.

If I came to your house and kicked you out and your family. Then built my own on that land

There are no settlements in Gaza. Israel withdrew almost a decade ago.

Nice try :rolleyes:

Reply 1790

SHallowvale

Original post by Chindits

Look at these despicable people pack up and run.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=46b_1406060784

Basic gist:

BBC rock up to this Israeli town, start broadcasting their pro-palestinian bull. These two citizens ask if they can give their side of events. The BBC refuses.

The lady rightly lambasts the BBC for ignoring years of rocket attacks and only reporting when Israel starts to retaliate.

Despicable BBC.

Definitely my last thread for the day :biggrin:

Questions:

- How do you know that the BBC were broadcasting ''pro-Palestinian bull'' at that site and at that time?

- At what point in the video did the BBC say that they'd refuse to speak with these people? From the video it looks as if they the cameramen were packing up anyway.

Also, the BBC has covered 'Palestine to Israel' rocket attacks. Some examples:

2006: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4855056.stm.
2007: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7140784.stm and http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6689355.stm.
2008: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7270168.stm, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7802276.stm and http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3702088.stm.
2009: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7818022.stm.
2013: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23025865.

Palestine rocket attacks on Israel have been reported by others too. Check the sources used for this Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel. The Independent, FOX News, the Daily Mail, The New York Times, along with many others, have all reported this stuff.

Reply 1791

Prince Dunlop

Original post by Chindits

There are no settlements in Gaza. Israel withdrew almost a decade ago.

Nice try :rolleyes:

Oh sorry, then the international court of justice is just lying?
How did the Palestinians end up in what we now call Gaza. Are claiming there was just empty land where the Israelis are now? And that all the Palestinians all lived in the Gaza Strip?
If you do, then you are truly brainwashed.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 1792

Al-farhan

Original post by Chindits

There are no settlements in Gaza. Israel withdrew almost a decade ago.

Nice try :rolleyes:

Of course not.
How silly of the world to think they are suffering or in need of aid shelter and help.
They have all their needs satisfied, it is only the israeli that are suffering under constant bombardments.
:rolleyes:

Please open our eyes more to the relaxed comfortable lives of the people in gaza

Reply 1793

tsr1269

Original post by Agapelove

The Roman Empire no longer exists, so they cannot give them back their land or monetary compensation.

The descendants of the Roman Empire exists.

Again, that can change.

Not in the next few hundred years, at least.

God waits for the His perfect time to fulfill promises He makes. Humans don't affect God fulfilling His promises. He fulfills His promises despite the majority of people not believing in them.

He waited around 7,000 years to fulfil this one. How did he know that Judaism would have survived that long?

Agreed.

So why did the Zionists need to deliver God's promises? Why did they have to blackmail 2 of the UN nations to support their vote? Why did they go around making secret agreements in order to give effect to "God's promise"...

Anti-Jewish immigration. Were they against other Arabs immigrating?

They already had sizeable Jewish immigration in their own countries who had been living with them for centuries.

King Cyrus the Great allowed Jews to go back to rebuild Jerusalem, but it took a lot of time. The second regeneration of Israel (1948) happened much faster.

But it still wasn't an independent state. It was still under the control of King Cyrus the Great.

It would be ideal for the Arab, Jewish, and Caananite peoples to work together to divide the land into 3 parts, and to not kill each other but rather bless each other.

That's ludicrous and spoken like a person who has been exposed to only one side of the conflict. Your bias is very clear to all.

I don't hold an opinion on that.

I'll just take it as the UK/US will continue to support Germany in their quashing of the Jewish terrorists.

Do you hold an opinion the following hypothetical situation?

What if Arabia were destroyed, along with Mecca and Medina? The surviving Arab people then fled to European countries and settled. Later on, the Jewish people came and settled in what was once Arab lands (Arabia). Then, when the descendants of the Arabs had been persecuted in European lands, they immigrated in mass back to Arabia. Should the Jewish people living there (this is hypothetical) fight the descendants of the Arabs who are migrating back to the land of their forefathers?

Of course.

By the way, did the Arabs expel the Christians and Jews from Arabia after Muhammad died. If so, why?

I believe they either had converted to Islam or had migrated to pastures anew.

As a woman who married an immigrant from South America, I personally don't want to put a limit. It'd be a wise idea, but it's not something I would want to do.

Let me make this easier for you:

In a population of say 10 million people, how many immigrants would you let in?

Reply 1794

Chindits

'palestinian' terrorist entity murder Thai foreign worker

A mortar shell fired from the Gaza Strip struck a hot house in an agricultural village in the Ashkelon Coast Regional Council killing a Thai migrant worker on Wednesday.

This will start increasing the hatred for the despicable entity.

Reply 1795

Chindits

Original post by Prince Dunlop

Israel withdrew to the 67 lines in Gaza.

They have no right to be firing rockets and indeed the international community has come down on Israel's side. :smile:

Reply 1796

Chindits

So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have
crowded into the country and multiplied till their
population has increased more than even all world Jewry
could lift up the Jewish population.
-- Winston Churchill

Nailed it. :smile:

Reply 1797

tsr1269

Update:

2 more IDF soldiers have been killed.

Qassam posts another sniper video. This time of an enemy commander being shot.

The PLO states that HAMAS ceasefire conditions are reasonable.

Strong possibility of Israeli war crimes, reports Navi Pillay (UN Human Rights)

Thai national killed by mortar fire.

PA FM's speech to UN Human Rights Council to review Israeli war crimes in Gaza receives loud applause.

Reply 1798

Chindits

Despicable 'palestinian' terrorists using Hospital as firing point

Hamas has used positions in the Al-Wafa Hospital in Gaza to fire automatic weapons and anti-tank missiles on soldiers, and the IDF fired back in recent minutes, the army said Wednesday.

"The hospital was used for activating war rooms and command and control centers by Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad," the army said