MH17 flight down in Ukraine
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Original post by Anonymous263
dude the BBC... seriously?
The "Whitehall sources" stated in this article is actually the Kiev government which is not impartial in this conflict.
We honestly don't know anything yet and you are jumping to conclusions and calling people stupid. So far its ONLY speculation.
The "Whitehall sources" stated in this article is actually the Kiev government which is not impartial in this conflict.
We honestly don't know anything yet and you are jumping to conclusions and calling people stupid. So far its ONLY speculation.
Forgive me for not being impartial enough. Dare I ask who you think caused this mess?
Original post by Anonymous263
dude the BBC... seriously?
The "Whitehall sources" stated in this article is actually the Kiev government which is not impartial in this conflict.
We honestly don't know anything yet and you are jumping to conclusions and calling people stupid. So far its ONLY speculation.
The "Whitehall sources" stated in this article is actually the Kiev government which is not impartial in this conflict.
We honestly don't know anything yet and you are jumping to conclusions and calling people stupid. So far its ONLY speculation.
Could you please divulge how you know the 'Whitehall source' is the Kiev government? Genuine question
Original post by Anonymous263
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/22/malaysia-plane-crash_n_5611113.html
Even the US government says that there is no evidence.
Even the US government says that there is no evidence.
When I said, 'You have to be either stupid or Russian', I was not saying Russia had a direct hand in the crash. I was merely commenting on how the Russian populace and media are blaming the Ukrainian government for downing the plane opposed to looking at the evidence pointing towards the separatists.
Original post by Petrue
When I said, 'You have to be either stupid or Russian', I was not saying Russia had a direct hand in the crash. I was merely commenting on how the Russian populace and media are blaming the Ukrainian government for downing the plane opposed to looking at the evidence pointing towards the separatists.
Russian government is blaming Ukrainian one not for downing the plane but for creating a situation when it's possible for a plane to be shot down. Rebels are citizens of Ukraine, not Russia.
Original post by Lumens
Russian government is blaming Ukrainian one not for downing the plane but for creating a situation when it's possible for a plane to be shot down. Rebels are citizens of Ukraine, not Russia.
Yeah of course.
Russia has nothing to do with this. I mean it isn't as if they are involved in the destabalisation of the region. And they certainly have not been arming and supporting the rebels.
Naughty Ukraine.
Original post by Anonymous263
True, but the Ukrainian government isn't exactly a reliable source of information, having so much at stake in this crisis.
Well, Satellite images showing that it was in fact a SAM which shot down the plane and that it came from rebel territory would at least show us that they do have evidence and aren't just talking out of their a** and relying on social media, the flip side is, even if the satellites show that it did come from rebel territory, it would not prove who fired it as they themselves have said today.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/22/malaysia-plane-crash_n_5611113.html
Well, Satellite images showing that it was in fact a SAM which shot down the plane and that it came from rebel territory would at least show us that they do have evidence and aren't just talking out of their a** and relying on social media, the flip side is, even if the satellites show that it did come from rebel territory, it would not prove who fired it as they themselves have said today.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/22/malaysia-plane-crash_n_5611113.html
Well, not even the Russians are contradicting US assertions. The only issue is the portion of blame.
So, where they base their assertions from at this juncture, is largely irrelevant.
Original post by InnerTemple
I mean it isn't as if they are involved in the destabalisation of the region.
Can you prove it?
Original post by Lumens
Can you prove it?
Well, there was that time when they annexed Crimea and held a sham referendum.
It has been well reported that Russia has been supplying weapons and manpower to the rebels.
Russia started this and continues to add fuel to the fire.
Original post by InnerTemple
Well, there was that time when they annexed Crimea and held a sham referendum.
You mean right after the other side had staged a coup and put an unelected man into power?
Posted from TSR Mobile
Nathanael Kapner who was born an American Jew but converted to Orthodox Christianity (see his video why he left Judaism) has produced some very informative videos about what's going on in Ukraine. _UqZrzv7sQQAn older video about the Zionist hijacking of Ukraine.em0gunVYiE8
Original post by LightBlueSoldier
You mean right after the other side had staged a coup and put an unelected man into power?
Posted from TSR Mobile
Posted from TSR Mobile
The current guy was elected on 25 May 2014.
The guy before him was an interim leader - there to keep things running until elections could be held.
Original post by InnerTemple
It has been well reported that Russia has been supplying weapons and manpower to the rebels.
It has been well reported that Russia has been supplying weapons and manpower to the rebels.
It has been well reported by western media. Russian media reported different things. So why you automatically trust one of them without any proof provided by any? Till you got evidence, you can't say such things.
Original post by InnerTemple
The current guy was elected on 25 May 2014.
The guy before him was an interim leader - there to keep things running until elections could be held.
The guy before him was an interim leader - there to keep things running until elections could be held.
He was only elected because the eastern Ukraine quite rightly did not view the election as being legitimate and for the most part did not vote.
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Original post by LightBlueSoldier
He was only elected because the eastern Ukraine quite rightly did not view the election as being legitimate and for the most part did not vote.
Actually I can believe that Poroshenko is legitimate president. I've written about it few pages back. But some guys here see the world in black and white colours. Some of people are angels fighting for the truth and some of them are terrorists ruining all the fun. The problem with Ukraine is that both sides are absolutely the same. Both sides don't want to be ruled by the other side and both sides are using weapon to defend its own interests eliminating the other side. But it happened that pro-government (or pro-western) side has more supporters overall, so the other side happened to be named as terrorists. It's so easy to call people which don't agree with you as terrorists so you got the right to kill them.
Original post by Lumens
It has been well reported by western media. Russian media reported different things. So why you automatically trust one of them without any proof provided by any? Till you got evidence, you can't say such things.
Yes I can say such things. And I'll keep on doing so .
Russia is arming the rebels. I trust the NATO reports. I don't trust Putin's claim that the weapons (tanks, missiles, artillery etc) came from "shops".
You missed out where I mentioned the annexation of Crimea... something the Russians denied being part of, which turned out to be lies. That goes some way to explaining why many don't trust the Russian press.
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Original post by InnerTemple
Russia is arming the rebels. I trust the NATO reports. I don't trust Putin's claim that the weapons (tanks, missiles, artillery etc) came from "shops".
Russia is arming the rebels. I trust the NATO reports. I don't trust Putin's claim that the weapons (tanks, missiles, artillery etc) came from "shops".
Okay, keep saying it. But why do you trust NATO reports? No kidding. Really, why? I guess, that's because it's your side, hence it's profitable for you in some way. Am I right?
Original post by InnerTemple
You missed out where I mentioned the annexation of Crimea...
You missed out where I mentioned the annexation of Crimea...
I was really against the annexation, but I got many friends all over Ukraine, so I know how happy people in Crimea are now. Don't you wonder why there are no rebels in Crimea now? Why is no one protesting? They really like to be part of Russia. So overall it is a good thing for the people that live there and I can't blame them for supporting the annexation, though personally I don't like it.
And if you want to see what kind of people is in charge of Ukrainian government now, I have a demonstration for you.
Here on the video right after a member of Ukrainian parliament Levchenko told that Ukrainian government do nothing to stop the civil war and that the army is continuing to kill their own people, Turchynov (chairman of parliament) immediately asked to turn off Levchenkov's mic and told that they're going to kick out of the parliament people who say such things. Afterwards a bunch of pro-government party guys started to beat Levchenko.
That's a real democracy.
[video="youtube;JRUeG63l_q8"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRUeG63l_q8[/video]
Here on the video right after a member of Ukrainian parliament Levchenko told that Ukrainian government do nothing to stop the civil war and that the army is continuing to kill their own people, Turchynov (chairman of parliament) immediately asked to turn off Levchenkov's mic and told that they're going to kick out of the parliament people who say such things. Afterwards a bunch of pro-government party guys started to beat Levchenko.
That's a real democracy.
[video="youtube;JRUeG63l_q8"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRUeG63l_q8[/video]
(edited 9 years ago)
Russia's Rostov monitoring centre has satellite images proving that Ukrainian BUK missiles (owned by the Ukrainian Army) were in the positions from which the plane could have been shot down. Russia also know that a US satellite were watching over the area where the plane came down - why, despite Russia releasing evidence that the Ukrainian military possibly brought down the plane, would the US not release their satellite photos? There is also strong evidence that a Ukrainian fighter jet - armed with air-to-air missiles - flew about 3 - 5 km within range of MH17 not long before the tragedy. Why have people not heard about this? Russia is releasing reliable data opening up a possibility contradictory to the narrative we've been fed, so why have the US not provided anything?
http://nsnbc.me/2014/07/21/ukrainian-su-25-jet-near-malaysian-flight-mh17-rostov-air-traffic-control/
http://www.globalresearch.ca/how-american-propaganda-works-guilt-by-insinuation/5392573
The very fact that the Western media immediately published one uniform narrative about who caused this tragedy, without any investigation having been carried out whatsoever, should make any reasonably intelligent person realise just how corrupt to the core our so-called 'free press' really is. There are obviously agendas at work. If our press really did care about truth and critical analysis, perhaps they would have pointed out the obliteration of Iran Air Flight 655 by a US carrier (http://www.globalresearch.ca/mh17-versus-iran-air-655-malaysian-airlines-boeing-777-downed-over-ukraine-kiev-regime-accuses-putin-of-sponsoring-terrorists/5391859). Even if the rebels were proved to have taken down the plane (which looks increasingly unlikely now), why should we punish and deem them terrorists without giving the remorseless US the same?
Posted from TSR Mobile
http://nsnbc.me/2014/07/21/ukrainian-su-25-jet-near-malaysian-flight-mh17-rostov-air-traffic-control/
http://www.globalresearch.ca/how-american-propaganda-works-guilt-by-insinuation/5392573
The very fact that the Western media immediately published one uniform narrative about who caused this tragedy, without any investigation having been carried out whatsoever, should make any reasonably intelligent person realise just how corrupt to the core our so-called 'free press' really is. There are obviously agendas at work. If our press really did care about truth and critical analysis, perhaps they would have pointed out the obliteration of Iran Air Flight 655 by a US carrier (http://www.globalresearch.ca/mh17-versus-iran-air-655-malaysian-airlines-boeing-777-downed-over-ukraine-kiev-regime-accuses-putin-of-sponsoring-terrorists/5391859). Even if the rebels were proved to have taken down the plane (which looks increasingly unlikely now), why should we punish and deem them terrorists without giving the remorseless US the same?
Posted from TSR Mobile
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by InnerTemple
Yeah of course.
Russia has nothing to do with this. I mean it isn't as if they are involved in the destabalisation of the region. And they certainly have not been arming and supporting the rebels.
Naughty Ukraine.
Russia has nothing to do with this. I mean it isn't as if they are involved in the destabalisation of the region. And they certainly have not been arming and supporting the rebels.
Naughty Ukraine.
Well then so does the USA, they're just as responsible, if not more, for the destabilisation of this region
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