Illegal immigrant gets killed after successfully arriving here in the UK
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Original post by You Failed
Yes. Go and look at it. You'll find that the vast majority of those who are on it, are not only British, but shock horror, they're not living in mansions either. Those who migrate to Britain have no interest in living a life on benefits and they're here to work. The amount of migrants on the benefit system is such a tiny percentage of the total.
Stop getting your facts from the Daily Mail.
Stop getting your facts from the Daily Mail.
So what jobs are there here which he couldn't have done while he was in France?
Original post by Greenlaner
Why didn't he just stay in France or any of the other safe countries he would have undoubtedly passed through?
I've seen a similar story before, and I wonder if it's because English is an easier language for some of these immigrants than French is?
In the meanwhile, why isn't there a nationalist, xenophobic Spanish party to kick out the millions of Brits stealing land in Spain?
We have become desensitized, the death of the innocent means nothing anymore. All everyone cares about is the fact it was and immigrant, God lord none of you did anything special to be born here at least have the decency to appreciate how easy everything is and some sympathy for those that put their lives at risk to come here for a better life.
Farage will be pleased.
Original post by Kolasinac138
In the meanwhile, why isn't there a nationalist, xenophobic Spanish party to kick out the millions of Brits stealing land in Spain?
This thread is discussing illegal immigrants. The Brits aren't illegal in Spain as it's part of the EU so it's irrelevant to this topic.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by sasunerd
The world is for everyone - R.I.P. to the man who wanted a better life in a different part of the world.
Delusional. You can't just welcome every poor person to rich countries, it would just lead to serious overpopulation and everyone being poor.
As for this guy, he risked his life and tried to illegally enter the country. He knew the risks and I pity him, but the responsibility rests squarely on his shoulders.
The UK is relatively lenient with immigrants and asylum seekers so there is no excuse for trying to enter the country illegally, especially from a safe and prosperous country like France.
Original post by SaucySarah
We have become desensitized, the death of the innocent means nothing anymore. All everyone cares about is the fact it was and immigrant, God lord none of you did anything special to be born here at least have the decency to appreciate how easy everything is and some sympathy for those that put their lives at risk to come here for a better life.
He's not "innocent". He died whilst breaking the law. Certainly his death is sad but he only has himself to blame for taking such risks.
Why didn't he come legally as an asylum seeker? Why was he so desperate to leave if he was already in France?
Original post by You Failed
Yes. Go and look at it. You'll find that the vast majority of those who are on it, are not only British, but shock horror, they're not living in mansions either. Those who migrate to Britain have no interest in living a life on benefits and they're here to work. The amount of migrants on the benefit system is such a tiny percentage of the total.
Stop getting your facts from the Daily Mail.
Stop getting your facts from the Daily Mail.
I'm not getting any facts from the daily mail. You don't need to he on the left/right to understand the economic ruination that this country faced under the last labour government. Not just economically, but also socially. Now I'm not quite sure the percentage is 'tiny', but I am quite sure that because of its growing. And the finances of the country are just struggling to cope.
To be honest, call me heartless but I actually don't care that this man is dead. I care about the poor in this country. And it could be that he came here looking to find a legit job and pay taxes etc. But I doubt this.
Original post by Captain Haddock
Illegal immigrants can't claim benefits, genius.
Be real, look at how other countries treat illegal immigrants and look at how we treat them
Original post by Jordanap
If he's gone through all that to get into the UK I think he deserved to become a citizen. People with that much motivation and determination to get what they want are much more beneficial than those fatty lazy benefit claimers
Don't tell me you buy into all that Tory propaganda. It's a tiny percentage of British people that claim benefit due to being out of work. Of that already tiny percentage it's an even smaller percentage who do so because they are work shy. The vast majority do so because they genuinely cant find a job (there is a job shortage) or they are disabled or genuinely ill.
There are also a lot of sick and disabled people who seek employment despite their condition but face hurdles that a healthy able bodied person does not.
Employers themselves can be discriminatory
They cant claim JSA and assistance to find a job because the advisor finds they are not able to work for 40 hours per week. Therefore they are not fit for employment .
People who were previously ill but have now recovered find themselves stuck on JSA due to the gaps on the CV that were created due to genuine illness.
There's no guarantee this immigrant intended to work or seek respectable employment.
Illegals cant work legally anyway so what would he be doing to earn money?
If he was qualified, had a clear criminal record, had skills in demand and therefore likely to find employment he could have applied to enter Britain via the legal route.
Instead he chose to break the law. The fact that he was unable to meet the criteria to enter via the legal route suggests his employment prospects in this country weren't great anyway so he's likely to because a other "fat lazy benefit claimer".
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(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Phoebe Buffay
Well we don't know that he was coming here to make a living
People who are asking why he didn't stop in any other European country - just look at our benefits system
People who are asking why he didn't stop in any other European country - just look at our benefits system
I thought France and the Nordic countries are more generous
To be fair clinging on to the underside of the bus isn't a particularly sensible idea so no sympathy from me. He would have been safe in France.
Original post by SaucySarah
We have become desensitized, the death of the innocent means nothing anymore. All everyone cares about is the fact it was and immigrant, God lord none of you did anything special to be born here at least have the decency to appreciate how easy everything is and some sympathy for those that put their lives at risk to come here for a better life.
Exactly, the lack of human empathy these days speaks volumes of the problems in society today.
Immigrant or not a poor man trying to get a better life died in the most of horrible ways rip.
Original post by Phoebe Buffay
I'm not getting any facts from the daily mail. You don't need to he on the left/right to understand the economic ruination that this country faced under the last labour government. Not just economically, but also socially. Now I'm not quite sure the percentage is 'tiny', but I am quite sure that because of its growing. And the finances of the country are just struggling to cope.
To be honest, call me heartless but I actually don't care that this man is dead. I care about the poor in this country. And it could be that he came here looking to find a legit job and pay taxes etc. But I doubt this.
Be real, look at how other countries treat illegal immigrants and look at how we treat them
To be honest, call me heartless but I actually don't care that this man is dead. I care about the poor in this country. And it could be that he came here looking to find a legit job and pay taxes etc. But I doubt this.
Be real, look at how other countries treat illegal immigrants and look at how we treat them
Show me some statistics (from the ONS, not the Daily Mail) to show that the number of migrants claiming benefits is growing FASTER than the number of UK claimants.
The 'economic ruin' you speak of has nothing to do with migrants. Firstly, what measure are you even using to dictate that the economy is in ruin? GDP? That's the highest it's been since 2008. Unemployment? At a 5 year low and still decreasing. Inflation? Has been increasing and has almost reached the 2% target set by the BOE. Predictions for the future by the IMF? Britian is predicted to be the fastest growing economy for the next year.
As for our finances, the UKs deficit has fallen to its lowest levels since 2008 as well. So, where's this economic ruin you speak of? All in all, the UKs economy is one of the strongest performing in the world at the moment.
Literally the only thing you could be speaking of, is wealth inequality. Which has literally NOTHING to do with migrants. Wealth inequality is propagated by a huge number of factors, including ineffective taxation and therefore distribution of wealth, nepotism, gender discrimination, class discrimination oh and, ethnic discrimination. The latter of which you are essentially doing by trying to denounce anyone coming over here who isn't English as a lazy benefit scrounger who shouldn't be worthy of life.
It's all well and good posting the tired, lazy and xenophobic rhetoric of how migrants are ruining this 'once great country' (who once plundered, raped and pillaged its way through much of the rest of world I may hasten to add), but at least make some sort of effort to back up your statements. It's incredibly easy to destroy such mind numbingly vague statements such as "the finances of the country are just struggling to cope."
You're right you're not getting any facts from the Daily Mail. You're not getting any facts at all.
Original post by Skip_Snip
So what jobs are there here which he couldn't have done while he was in France?
I do not claim to know why he decided to travel here instead of France. What I do know is that, from this lack of knowledge, we can't them claim we know he was travelling here for untoward reasons; as then we would know why he was coming here in the first place..
I also know that illegal immigrants can't claim benefits. So whatever he was going to do here, it wasn't become a benefit scrounger who would cause the collapse of society as we know it, which is exactly what the girl was claiming would happen.
In addition, my post was referring to legal migrants, for which we have very clear statistics from the ONS showing that this myth constantly propagated by the media of them all being benefit scroungers is completely wrong. A much smaller percentage of the migrant community claims compared to the native community. The majority wish to come simply to find betters lives for themselves and their families.
Also commonly misunderstood by people is the fact that shock, horror, we are not the only country who receives immigrants looking to work. In fact we're not even the most popular choice for migrants. It's only natural that among developed countries, there will be a distribution of migrants; many may choose Germany, or France, and others will choose Britain. Perhaps they like our tea. Whatever the reason is, we will receive some and from this we cannot infer that our country must somehow by more lax or more open. This can only be done by looking at relative, not absolute rates of migration and when you do that, as mentioned, you see that we're not even at the top of the list.
Original post by You Failed
Show me some statistics (from the ONS, not the Daily Mail) to show that the number of migrants claiming benefits is growing FASTER than the number of UK claimants.
I never said any such thing
Original post by You Failed
The 'economic ruin' you speak of has nothing to do with migrants. Firstly, what measure are you even using to dictate that the economy is in ruin? GDP? That's the highest it's been since 2008. Unemployment? At a 5 year low and still decreasing. Inflation? Has been increasing and has almost reached the 2% target set by the BOE. Predictions for the future by the IMF? Britian is predicted to be the fastest growing economy for the next year.
As for our finances, the UKs deficit has fallen to its lowest levels since 2008 as well. So, where's this economic ruin you speak of? All in all, the UKs economy is one of the strongest performing in the world at the moment.
As for our finances, the UKs deficit has fallen to its lowest levels since 2008 as well. So, where's this economic ruin you speak of? All in all, the UKs economy is one of the strongest performing in the world at the moment.
You fail to mention the reason why the government has to take such divisive measures to reduce the deficit. It is because although GDP is at its highest since 2008, unemployment is lowering etc, the fact of the matter is that Britain's national debt is at something like 1.4 trillion pounds and rising. Or perhaps you think this is irrelavent. As for the recovery, as yourself what is it based on?
Original post by You Failed
Literally the only thing you could be speaking of, is wealth inequality. Which has literally NOTHING to do with migrants. Wealth inequality is propagated by a huge number of factors, including ineffective taxation and therefore distribution of wealth, nepotism, gender discrimination, class discrimination oh and, ethnic discrimination. The latter of which you are essentially doing by trying to denounce anyone coming over here who isn't English as a lazy benefit scrounger who shouldn't be worthy of life.
I never said he wasn't worthy of life, so don't twist my words. I said 'I don't care'. These two are not the same thing. And yes, I denounce those who try to illegally enter this country, because you find that those who usually do, do not come here to work and pay taxes etc.
Original post by You Failed
It's all well and good posting the tired, lazy and xenophobic rhetoric of how migrants are ruining this 'once great country' (who once plundered, raped and pillaged its way through much of the rest of world I may hasten to add), but at least make some sort of effort to back up your statements. It's incredibly easy to destroy such mind numbingly vague statements such as "the finances of the country are just struggling to cope."
You're right you're not getting any facts from the Daily Mail. You're not getting any facts at all.
You're right you're not getting any facts from the Daily Mail. You're not getting any facts at all.
You must be absolutely mad if you think that this country is not struggling to reduce the deficit, and just struggling to cope. Only a few days ago, it was reported that the UK borrowed higher than expected in the month of June. We have a recovery based on debt, and still many problems facing us ahead.
Original post by You Failed
I also know that illegal immigrants can't claim benefits. So whatever he was going to do here, it wasn't become a benefit scrounger who would cause the collapse of society as we know it, which is exactly what the girl was claiming would happen.
I also know that illegal immigrants can't claim benefits. So whatever he was going to do here, it wasn't become a benefit scrounger who would cause the collapse of society as we know it, which is exactly what the girl was claiming would happen.
No I made no such comment about the collapse of society, stop exaggerating. Neither did I say he would claim benefits - I said 'look at our benefits system'. He can't claim benefits, but our welfare system is much more generous than others in continental Europe.
Yes, he can't claim benefits. Amongst other reasons, you need a national insurance number to claim benefits, which illegal immigrants do not automatically get. By the same virtue, he can't obtain any legit job and pay national insurance contributions etc. So while we can conjecture that he may not have been here for benefits, there is no possibility he came here looking for legal work
Original post by Phoebe Buffay
I never said any such thing
You fail to mention the reason why the government has to take such divisive measures to reduce the deficit. It is because although GDP is at its highest since 2008, unemployment is lowering etc, the fact of the matter is that Britain's national debt is at something like 1.4 trillion pounds and rising. Or perhaps you think this is irrelavent. As for the recovery, as yourself what is it based on?
I never said he wasn't worthy of life, so don't twist my words. I said 'I don't care'. These two are not the same thing. And yes, I denounce those who try to illegally enter this country, because you find that those who usually do, do not come here to work and pay taxes etc.
You must be absolutely mad if you think that this country is not struggling to reduce the deficit, and just struggling to cope. Only a few days ago, it was reported that the UK borrowed higher than expected in the month of June. We have a recovery based on debt, and still many problems facing us ahead.
You fail to mention the reason why the government has to take such divisive measures to reduce the deficit. It is because although GDP is at its highest since 2008, unemployment is lowering etc, the fact of the matter is that Britain's national debt is at something like 1.4 trillion pounds and rising. Or perhaps you think this is irrelavent. As for the recovery, as yourself what is it based on?
I never said he wasn't worthy of life, so don't twist my words. I said 'I don't care'. These two are not the same thing. And yes, I denounce those who try to illegally enter this country, because you find that those who usually do, do not come here to work and pay taxes etc.
You must be absolutely mad if you think that this country is not struggling to reduce the deficit, and just struggling to cope. Only a few days ago, it was reported that the UK borrowed higher than expected in the month of June. We have a recovery based on debt, and still many problems facing us ahead.
You said:
"Now I'm not quite sure the percentage is 'tiny', but I am quite sure that because of its growing."
Obviously the number will grow. The number of people in the country will always be increasing and thus even if the ratio of the percentage of people are claiming remains the same, there will still be an increase in claimants. Now if you want to try and argue that immigrants are bad because they just want our benefits, then you need to compare the percentage of immigrants claiming to the percentage of natives claiming, in order to strip out other socioeconomic effects. So instead of just claiming well the number of migrants claiming is increasing without comparing it to anything, you need to look at how the percentage of the migrant population claiming is increasing relative to how the native population of claimants is increasing.
If migrant claims are increasing relative to natives, then you can successfully claim that after stripping out socioeconomic effects, migrants 'scrounge' more than natives. If not, then you cannot claim that migrants come here just for benefits, because in reality they're less likely to claim.
Good luck with that though, because the reality is we claim on a more readily basis than any immigrants do. The ONS have shown statistically immigrants contribute more to the UKs economy through taxes and work, than they subtract through claiming benefits.
Britain has a large debt. Yes, as does every developed country. Debt is not an inherently bad thing and is in fact essential to economic growth. There's arguments as to what the ideal amount of debt to GDP ratio actually is and economists will generally be hesitant to give a specific figure. The UKs is currently 80%. The USA's is over 100%. What ultimately matters is whether it's sustainable. If debt continues to increase then it will inevitably become unsustainable and that's why it's important to cut the deficit to ensure debt remains stable. Quoting an absolute figure for debt is purely a shock tactic and provides literally no information whatsoever. Britain could have £1tn of debt, but it could have £100tn in GDP and thus would have a tiny amount of debt. So you have quoted a figure which is essentially meaningless and given no argument to back up your claim as to why the economy is so unstable in its current state.
Ask myself what is it based on? This is not an argument, it is passing the buck back onto me because you have no idea what you're talking about. As I mentioned before, the UKs economy is currently projected for the strongest percentage increase in the entire world for this year. Yes there are questions as to what is the backing for the recovery, but that is such an obtusely complicated question that no one can be absolutely certain with their answer, and due to that uncertainty, you can no more claim that it is backed by bad debt than I can that it's backed on a stable increase in output.
I could go on but essentially the rest of your post continues in the same vain. A lot of open ended questions vaguely related to statements of shock and horror, but in reality, very little substance and next to nothing in terms of concrete argument. We borrowed a higher than expected amount for one month? You fail to even state by how much did the borrowing go over by; 0.001%? 1%? 1000%? Oh no, must mean our entire economy is based on unstable sub prime mortgage debt.
I'll reiterate again, as I did in the last post. All of this has basically nothing to do with immigrants who time and time again, have been shown to contribute more to the economy than they subtract. And even relative to the native population, they subtract a lot less from it than we do. If you think any of the things you've stated are because of an immigrant population, then you're delusional.
(edited 9 years ago)
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