FALSE rape accusations are the new epidemic. Lives are being destroyed everyday.

Original post by Cobbler

Any actual evidence of this? Or is this another thing that one of you guys has 'heard of'?

What do you count as evidence?

Here is something small, but concrete: http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/17374/

I also found several posts on reddit, which are less reliable but the stories don't look made up.

Reply 43

Original post by james22

What do you count as evidence?

Here is something small, but concrete: http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/17374/

I also found several posts on reddit, which are less reliable but the stories don't look made up.

So from this one piece of 'evidence' you have concluded that this is endemic and, not only that, that 'several' of these type of cases will be false rape accusations?
Why would you assume this? :confused:

Reply 44

Original post by Cobbler

Any actual evidence of this? Or is this another thing that one of you guys has 'heard of'?

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/26po68/how_i_was_falsely_accused_of_rape_and_found/

Not the best source, but I don't doubt it much.

Reply 45

Original post by Cobbler

Any actual evidence of this? Or is this another thing that one of you guys has 'heard of'?

America is already way down the toilet in this regard. Campus rapes are investigated by school tribunals and held to a 'preponderance of evidence' rather than typical 'clear and convincing evidence' standard. This means that rather than having to prove guilt, they are determined to be guilty simply if there's a greater than 50% chance an assault occurred. In other words, a complete warping of standard procedures of justice and human rights.

Information below from Wiki. Mention of numerous lawsuits near the end:

"Prevention efforts by the Obama administration

In 2011, the United States Department of Education sent a letter, known as the “Dear Colleague” letter, to the presidents of all colleges and universities in the United States stating that Title IX requires schools to investigate and adjudicate cases of sexual assault on campus.[33] The letter also states that schools must adjudicate these cases using a “preponderance of the evidence” standard, meaning that the accused will be responsible if it is determined that there is at least a 50.1% chance that the assault occurred. The letter expressly forbid the use of the stricter “clear and convincing evidence” standard used at some schools previously. In 2014, President Barack Obama established the White House Task Force to Protect Students from Sexual Assault, which published a report reiterating the interpretation of Title IX in the “Dear Colleague” letter and proposing a number of other measures to prevent and respond to sexual assault on campus, such as campus climate surveys and bystander intervention programs.[34][35] Shortly thereafter, the Department of Education released a list of 55 colleges and universities across the country that it was investigating for possible Title IX violations in relation to sexual assault.[36]

Civil liberties concerns

The Obama administration’s approach toward sexual assault on campus has been widely criticized for not taking into account the issue of false allegations and wrongful convictions.[37][38][39][40][41][42] Critics claim that the “preponderance of the evidence” standard is not appropriate for a violent crime and leads to students being wrongly expelled for crimes that have not been clearly proven. Campus tribunals have also been criticized for lacking the necessary experience in criminal justice and for failing to provide many of the due process protection that the United States Constitution guarantees in criminal trials, such as the right to be represented by an attorney and the right to cross-examine witnesses. The American Association of University Professors and the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education have publicly opposed the “Dear Colleague” letter.[43] In early 2014, RAINN, the nation’s largest non-profit dedicated to preventing rape, wrote an open letter to the White House calling for campus tribunals to be de-emphasized in favor of the criminal justice system. According to RAINN, “The crime of rape does not fit the capabilities of such boards. They often offer the worst of both worlds: they lack protections for the accused while often tormenting victims.”[44]

Since the issuance of the “Dear Colleague” letter, a number of lawsuits have been filed against colleges and universities across the country by male students alleging that the schools violated their rights under Title IX by expelling them for rapes they did not commit.[45][46][47] Xavier University entered into a settlement in one such lawsuit in April 2014.[48]"

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 46

Original post by Cobbler

So from this one piece of 'evidence' you have concluded that this is endemic and, not only that, that 'several' of these type of cases will be false rape accusations?
Why would you assume this? :confused:

It happens much more often, just harder to find soruces because newspapers aren't interested in such small cases. The problem is that the university is allowed to kick someone out on the basis that it is more likely than not that he did it. This is a way lower standard of evidence than the beyond reasonable doubt needed in court.

EDIT: Person above as answered this better than me.

Reply 47

Original post by Cobbler

So from this one piece of 'evidence' you have concluded that this is endemic and, not only that, that 'several' of these type of cases will be false rape accusations?
Why would you assume this? :confused:

Another thing. Where did I use a word like endemic? I used many, you are exagerating what I said to try and make it better fit what you want me to be saying. And of course several of them will be false, statistically they will be (given that a non-trivial percentage of actually accusations are proven false), and combined with the much lower standard of evidence required.

Reply 48

username1214455

21

Can we stop the victim blaming?
Some of these comments are as bad as "it's the woman's fault for how she dresses. She was asking for it.'

You're all ****ing disgusting

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 49

Original post by MagicNMedicine

I know right.

As usual meninists scraping the barrel to try and find examples to support the myth in their silly little minds of some kind of global discrimination against men.

Meninism :facepalm:

What are your thoughts on the US handling of campus rapes, as outlined above?

Reply 50

Original post by james22

Another thing. Where did I use a word like endemic? I used many, you are exagerating what I said to try and make it better fit what you want me to be saying. And of course several of them will be false, statistically they will be (given that a non-trivial percentage of actually accusations are proven false), and combined with the much lower standard of evidence required.

Funny how people will quote statistics when they suit. How about the statistic that suggests that only 20% of rapes or sexual assaults are ever actually reported? That will certainly put the 'non-trivial' percentage of false allegations into perspective.
Having seen the hell that a rape victim goes through in court, the amount of proof needed to secure a conviction, It would be virtually impossible to wrongfully convict a person if he/she was innocent, that is if it even gets as far as court. False rape allegations are usually pretty transparent and easily sussed out.
TBH, these cases in the USA, right or wrong, are pretty irrelevant to this discussion. This is a UK site and is about what is happening, or not, in this country. I mean should we include cases and statistics in India or Pakistan or South Africa? Of course not, that would completely turn this argument upside down.

Reply 51

Original post by Cobbler

Funny how people will quote statistics when they suit. How about the statistic that suggests that only 20% of rapes or sexual assaults are ever actually reported? That will certainly put the 'non-trivial' percentage of false allegations into perspective.
Having seen the hell that a rape victim goes through in court, the amount of proof needed to secure a conviction, It would be virtually impossible to wrongfully convict a person if he/she was innocent, that is if it even gets as far as court. False rape allegations are usually pretty transparent and easily sussed out.
TBH, these cases in the USA, right or wrong, are pretty irrelevant to this discussion. This is a UK site and is about what is happening, or not, in this country. I mean should we include cases and statistics in India or Pakistan or South Africa? Of course not, that would completely turn this argument upside down.

That first bit has no relivence to anything I have said.

That second bit is basically you saying that you know I'm right, but instead of admitting it you are trying to change the subject.

Everything you have just said does nothing more but try to shift the topic away from what I said.

Reply 52

Original post by james22

That first bit has no relivence to anything I have said.

That second bit is basically you saying that you know I'm right, but instead of admitting it you are trying to change the subject.

Everything you have just said does nothing more but try to shift the topic away from what I said.

Firstly You've replied to a thread saying that false allegations of rape are epidemic and ruining mens life with a spotlight fallacy of an American problem where accused rapists (neither falsely or proven) are being expelled from college without trial, then acuse me of going off topic.
Secondly I am not capitulating to your argument. You may well be right about that but it is not relevant. What happens abroad is completely different to the UK. In other countries you need 7 male witnesses to prove rape, should we use those instances to prove that false allegations are rife or that males are treated unfairly in rape (or not) cases?
Thirdly I didn't see you answer any of my obsevations. Pot/kettle?

Reply 53

Original post by Cobbler

Funny how people will quote statistics when they suit. How about the statistic that suggests that only 20% of rapes or sexual assaults are ever actually reported? That will certainly put the 'non-trivial' percentage of false allegations into perspective.
Having seen the hell that a rape victim goes through in court, the amount of proof needed to secure a conviction, It would be virtually impossible to wrongfully convict a person if he/she was innocent, that is if it even gets as far as court. False rape allegations are usually pretty transparent and easily sussed out.
TBH, these cases in the USA, right or wrong, are pretty irrelevant to this discussion. This is a UK site and is about what is happening, or not, in this country. I mean should we include cases and statistics in India or Pakistan or South Africa? Of course not, that would completely turn this argument upside down.

If you're going to try and call people out it's pretty despicable to pretend like it didn't matter when it backfires on you.

Do you class yourself as an egalitarian? I think the cases and statistics in India, Pakistan and South Africa are terrible and condemn what could indeed be described as an epidemic of sexual violence in those countries. If I'd called you out on sexual assaults in those countries and you'd responded with statistics backing your claim, I would certainly consider it of relevance to the discussion. Likewise I, and many other civil liberty organisations (not to mention RAINN which is the largest support group for victims in the US) condemn the way the US handles these rape cases. At the very least you could clarify your opposition to it once you've begun to engage with the topic - unless you are completely biased and partisan, which appears increasingly likely.

Reply 54

Original post by Cobbler

Firstly You've replied to a thread saying that false allegations of rape are epidemic and ruining mens life with a spotlight fallacy of an American problem where accused rapists (neither falsely or proven) are being expelled from college without trial, then acuse me of going off topic.
Secondly I am not capitulating to your argument. You may well be right about that but it is not relevant. What happens abroad is completely different to the UK. In other countries you need 7 male witnesses to prove rape, should we use those instances to prove that false allegations are rife or that males are treated unfairly in rape (or not) cases?
Thirdly I didn't see you answer any of my obsevations. Pot/kettle?

If you think that what I am saying is off topic, then why was your initial reply trying to argue with my claims? You should have said all this the very first time you replied. Instead you tried to argue with me, failed, and now are looking for a way out.

I didn't answer your observations because they are not what I am talking about, and I don't really care about them. You replied to me, I didn't reply to you, I have no need to answer your off topic questions.

Reply 55

Original post by ClickItBack

If you're going to try and call people out it's pretty despicable to pretend like it didn't matter when it backfires on you.

Do you class yourself as an egalitarian? I think the cases and statistics in India, Pakistan and South Africa are terrible and condemn what could indeed be described as an epidemic of sexual violence in those countries. If I'd called you out on sexual assaults in those countries and you'd responded with statistics backing your claim, I would certainly consider it of relevance to the discussion. Likewise I, and many other civil liberty organisations (not to mention RAINN which is the largest support group for victims in the US) condemn the way the US handles these rape cases. At the very least you could clarify your opposition to it once you've begun to engage with the topic - unless you are completely biased and partisan, which appears increasingly likely.

As mentioned in the previous reply, this problem in the USA may be right or wrong (I haven't studied it so have no real opinion and don't believe that I should until I know more) but it has no relevance to either the original post or the UK. It doesn't happen here.
Oh and I, 100%, class myself as an egalitarian.

Reply 56

Original post by Cobbler

As mentioned in the previous reply, this problem in the USA may be right or wrong (I haven't studied it so have no real opinion and don't believe that I should until I know more) but it has no relevance to either the original post or the UK. It doesn't happen here.
Oh and I, 100%, class myself as an egalitarian.

In which case, why did you respond to james22's first post with 'Pah, I don't believe it!' and ask for evidence rather than 'that's in the US so it's not relevant?'

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 57

Original post by james22

If you think that what I am saying is off topic, then why was your initial reply trying to argue with my claims? You should have said all this the very first time you replied. Instead you tried to argue with me, failed, and now are looking for a way out.

I didn't answer your observations because they are not what I am talking about, and I don't really care about them. You replied to me, I didn't reply to you, I have no need to answer your off topic questions.

Fine. You are the winner! Congratulations. :rolleyes:

Feel better? :wink:

Reply 58