The Israel/Palestine Conflict Mk. IV

Additionally note, there are multiple ways around each *******, Israel chooses the easy one, i.e. use explosives. Explain the need to bomb buildings and make tanks fire shells at buildings full of civilians rather than using a bullet to achieve the same end? Slightly higher risk, substantially easier, prevents international outcry.

You want more Israelis to die in order to save palestinians?

Land for peace does not work. They gave Gaza over and got more terrorism than ever.

They did not give Gaza over. Aside from the siege, an occupation ends when a peace treaty is signed and sovereignty established/re-established. Gaza has neither. By contrast, the 'Land for peace' deal with Egypt provided both. Even on a purely practical level, the disengagement from Gaza was a unilateral decision, not a negotiated one.

i know - . it started as you confirmed above, because hamas launched rackets in response to 2 protestor killings. please dont backtrack now that youve had a chance to read what you posted and dont like the sound of it
which palestinian youth was that exactly? if it was 1 presumably hamas was prepared to sacrifice 450 additonal palestinians to retaliate for this one kiilling - thats the basic maths they work on yes?

It's not possible to fight a war without civilian casualties. I'm not sure how leftists managed to create this environment whereby people expect zero-casualty wars.

The British are currently killing civilians in Afghanistan. The difference is that due Britain does not come in for the same scrutiny as Israel. The BBC is not camped outside Afghan hospitals showing injured kids - but civilians are dying.



This is overstated much like when people make the statement that the US "created Al Qaeda" because they armed some cave-dwellers against the Soviets.



A whole different animal. At no point did the Irish declare their stated aim as being the destruction of the UK and the genocide of its people.

Additionally, N.I was British territory and the people living there were therefore British. They could not bombard their own towns and cities.

Make no mistake, if the UK suffered daily rocket attacks of 150 rockets per day where British nationals were spending half their lives in bomb shelters - Ireland would be in ruins - just like Germany was after V2 rocket attacks.

http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/unrwa-condemns-placement-rockets-second-time-one-its-schools

Interesting.

So when this vacant school which is surrounded by other UN schools which serve as shelters is hit by the IDF, we will hear the usual propaganda 'IDF has hit a UN school, damaging two others and injuring civilians.'

I wonder why the IDF, those evil creatures, would randomly bomb a school! It couldn't POSSIBLY be because they've placed weapons in a civilian area, could it? (An example of using human shields, for those unaware of it, by the way).

It's been a common tactic of Hamas and other militant groups in Gaza for many years. It makes excellent propaganda—as apparent by reading anything on this thread or by attending any protest.

"Israel murdering children", they cite. Blindly ignoring the reality.

How nice, justifying terrorism. I hope you two realise that you are attempting to justify terrorism because of terrorism.

'Israel murdering children' IS the reality. Israel murdering children unconcernedly and unashamedly. Israel seeking justification for murdering children. That IS the reality.

If anyone is blindly ignoring reality that would be the inhuman monsters seeking to justify murder of children.

In the words of Dara O'Brien, "your choice of words put you pretty firmly in one camp rather than the other". Clearly biased.

I'm not a Jew, I'm not Jewish, I'm not a Muslim and and I'm not from the Middle East. I'm entitled to view the situation how I want, and to make the conclusions that I want.

From the evidence I've seen, I think Hamas is to blame. I think on the whole Palestinians are being ****ed in the arse, and Israel are within their rights to defend from consistent rocket attacks.

Hamas are the ones setting up around the civilian populace. I get that they're being squeezed by Israeli tunnel enforcements, but that's the point. If Hamas laid down arms and stopped their demands of ending the Israeli state, there could be a peace treaty and a return to normality. But they never will, because "God".

If you have conclusive evidence (from a non-biased source please) that Israel are actively targetting children (where Hamas are not based), I would like to see it.

In the words of Dara O'Brien, "your choice of words put you pretty firmly in one camp rather than the other". Clearly biased.

I'm not a Jew, I'm not Jewish, I'm not a Muslim and and I'm not from the Middle East. I'm entitled to view the situation how I want, and to make the conclusions that I want.

From the evidence I've seen, I think Hamas is to blame. I think on the whole Palestinians are being ****ed in the arse, and Israel are within their rights to defend from consistent rocket attacks.

Hamas are the ones setting up around the civilian populace. I get that they're being squeezed by Israeli tunnel enforcements, but that's the point. If Hamas laid down arms and stopped their demands of ending the Israeli state, there could be a peace treaty and a return to normality. But they never will, because "God".

If you have conclusive evidence (from a non-biased source please) that Israel are actively targetting children (where Hamas are not based), I would like to see it.

Lol sure it looks like you've seen a lot of dubious 'evidence' if you think Hamas wants Israel to cease existing when Hamas today certainly does NOT want that all it wants is the Gaza blockade to be lifted
Lol 'because "God"'??? What does Israel exist for? 'Because God gave that land to the Jews', that's why. Can't believe the amount of hypocrisy in the world
Does Hamas seriously look like al-qaeda to you??? That's just another BS argument the Israeli govrnment invented to garner support against its opposition


I'd like to see your conclusive evidence about Hamas hiding amongst civilians that BS excuse Israel uses to bomb civilians
What, rockets stashed amongst civilians (that Hamas denied stashing) counts as evidence for that?
Good, then crazy numbers of dead and injured Palestinian children counts as evidence for Israel killing children. Also Israel bombing a school they knew civilians were being sheltered in, also a refugee camp and hospitals, yep Israel sounds very like a criminal

What are you rambling on about? I never mentioned Al'Queda. I don't see a single link of evidence in your post by the way. Still waiting!

As for evidence that Hamas uses rockets where civilians are: http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/unrwa-condemns-placement-rockets-second-time-one-its-schools

UNRWA are one of the main sources of Palestinian aid, so don't try and pull the "biased source" card.

So, where's your evidence?

Nice strawman. Try again plz.

Do you even know what 'strawman' means? Lol, if that sounds like a 'strawman' to you then it doesn't look like you do.

Are you incapable of seeing that a very densely populated piece of land is going to have militants, who don't have army bases, set up around civilians? Where else do you think they are, on flying clouds? I've showed you a link that says they set up around schools. Clearly blinded by your pro-Islam agenda.

When I refer to Hamas, I mean Hamas + other militant groups in the strip. Each are equally responsible, but Hamas are the largest and were voted in.

Last time I looked, they'd ordered evacuations. I imagine Hamas forced them to stay. Any links to suggest otherwise or will you keep rambling on without evidence? Yeah, thought as much.

I don't dispute the deaths. I dispute their cause.

Well, it is important wording. They order evacuations and people don't evacuate. They ask for Hamas to stop firing rockets, and they don't. They can't do much else other than ask for civilians to move 24 hours in advance. What do people think will happen when bombs start falling?

Yes, it's when you argue a point that wasn't made by the person you're debating with. Read up on it sometime.

To summarise: if you don't have any links to show me, shut up. You're clearly biased and I can't be bothered arguing with your POV without evidence.

It's worth noting that the palestinians are masters of deception and manipulation. Hence the term 'Pallywood'.

Many of the pictures we see are orchestrated. They're also very adept at drawing fire towards their own civilians.

People in the west can't seem to comprehend it, which is why they blame Israel - but Hamas actively seek the deaths of palestinain civilians. If children are killed this is a bonus for them.

They have no diplomatic clout other than civilian deaths. If only Hamas terrorists were dying with negligible civilian casualties, very few people (bar the rabid anti-Israelis) would care. Israel would be free to wipe Hamas out. Their diplomatic currency is civilian deaths.

It's a very callous form of terrorism - and the thought of Hamas doing this to fill their empty coffers with donations is even more sickening.

But that's terrorists for you.

What is this, a hasbara lesson?
'Pallywood' is a term used exclusively by the Zionist enemy.
It is actually the Zionists who are renowned for their unabashed and government-scale deception, hence the term 'Hasbara'. Both 'Pallywood' and 'hasbara' are Zionist terms. Zionists are the deceiving ones. So deceiving are they that they want to deceive the world into believing that they are not the deceivers but their victims are. Unlucky for them that the world is not as stupid as to believe their lies for much longer

"Hasbara" means to 'explain'. i.e to explain Israel's position.

After all, that's what this thread is about. pro-palestinians giving their position and pro-Israelis giving theirs.

'Pallywood' is a widely used term, as it's so prevalent.