Who was responsible for downing Malaysian plane in Ukraine
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Original post by PassingAlways
the CIA.
though I reckon if the Russian separatists want to kill loads of people like this they should just claim its self defence like Israel does, maybe then the USA/UK will love them for it eh?
though I reckon if the Russian separatists want to kill loads of people like this they should just claim its self defence like Israel does, maybe then the USA/UK will love them for it eh?
Original post by cdude
x
i have run out of rep
loolOriginal post by PassingAlways
they should just claim its self defence like Israel does, maybe then the USA/UK will love them for it eh?
Having rockets fired in to your country isn't justification to retaliate?
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by VeniViciVidi
lol
It's not that ridiculous. They've knowingly show down civilian planes before...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
They didn't knowingly shoot down an airliner. Poor training and result focussed training led them to make a stupid mistake.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by imtelling
This could be false flag like 9-11, so it could have been the US which downed the plane.
It's tinfoil hat time. This is not a drill, I repeat this is not a drill.
I like how everyone on here complains about how the US is evil but then complains when people say they take down a civilian plane. Nice hypocrisy useful idiots.
The rebels are most likely responsible, they probably didn't have the equipment to tell it was a commercial airline. One can only hope it was accidental because otherwise they're incredibly stupid. Who gains from this? Ukraine and the West will use it as propaganda to march into the East and take the Crimea back.
There is a genuine reason to doubt the Ukrainian government though. Why has the West accepted a coup d'etat (when they condemn practically all others) against a democratically elected government? Why is there little mention of the ultranationalist sentiment seen regularly in Ukraine (why have the Ukranians not agreed to federalism and why is the West not reporting about the civilians killed frequently by Ukranian forces). Why were the Ukraine so quick to jump the gun and I believe they may have even faked evidence iirc (something about a fake recording being released?) Why is there a clear information war (using terms like 'annex' are the UN the only ones allowed to issue a referendum?). The Western ultra nationalist Ukrainians identify Russians as the source of their oppression so it's not surprising the Russians are a little bit concerned for those who identify as Russian in the east.
Russia made a huge screw up. Putin is not stupid and will not be impressed if he is supplying equipment (still no proof of this yet although it's likely).
We need to put this behind us a divide Ukraine into west/east... but the Ukrainian government refuse to accept this.
Here's an analogy for you:
If the Canadian Prime Minister was removed by a coup d'etat by Russia, and the Russians put a new prime minister in their place, would the US defend it (I mean *invade*)
The rebels are most likely responsible, they probably didn't have the equipment to tell it was a commercial airline. One can only hope it was accidental because otherwise they're incredibly stupid. Who gains from this? Ukraine and the West will use it as propaganda to march into the East and take the Crimea back.
There is a genuine reason to doubt the Ukrainian government though. Why has the West accepted a coup d'etat (when they condemn practically all others) against a democratically elected government? Why is there little mention of the ultranationalist sentiment seen regularly in Ukraine (why have the Ukranians not agreed to federalism and why is the West not reporting about the civilians killed frequently by Ukranian forces). Why were the Ukraine so quick to jump the gun and I believe they may have even faked evidence iirc (something about a fake recording being released?) Why is there a clear information war (using terms like 'annex' are the UN the only ones allowed to issue a referendum?). The Western ultra nationalist Ukrainians identify Russians as the source of their oppression so it's not surprising the Russians are a little bit concerned for those who identify as Russian in the east.
Russia made a huge screw up. Putin is not stupid and will not be impressed if he is supplying equipment (still no proof of this yet although it's likely).
We need to put this behind us a divide Ukraine into west/east... but the Ukrainian government refuse to accept this.
Here's an analogy for you:
If the Canadian Prime Minister was removed by a coup d'etat by Russia, and the Russians put a new prime minister in their place, would the US defend it (I mean *invade*)
(edited 9 years ago)
I think the Russians blew it up and tried to blame the Ukrainians.
The plane was coming from the west, not the east. In other words, it flew across Europe and most of Ukraine. The odds of a Russian attack (or "rebel" attack - if they ever acquire a plane) coming from that direction are very close to zero.
The sloppily identified plane's directional heading (from the west, heading east) clearly indicates to people on the ground that it was coming from either Ukraine, or a western nation; and heading towards "rebel"-held territory and Russia.
A simple compass should be enough to determine that the plane wasn't Russian, therefore Ukraine almost certainly wouldn't fire on it. But that same directional heading would mildly imply that it could be a Ukranian plane, prompting either "rebels" or Russia itself to fire upon it.
If someone had access to an advanced ground-launched missile system, I will assume they also had access to "compass technology" that you can pick up as a keychain accessory at a local toy store.
The Ukrainian army did NOT shoot the plane down.
The sloppily identified plane's directional heading (from the west, heading east) clearly indicates to people on the ground that it was coming from either Ukraine, or a western nation; and heading towards "rebel"-held territory and Russia.
A simple compass should be enough to determine that the plane wasn't Russian, therefore Ukraine almost certainly wouldn't fire on it. But that same directional heading would mildly imply that it could be a Ukranian plane, prompting either "rebels" or Russia itself to fire upon it.
If someone had access to an advanced ground-launched missile system, I will assume they also had access to "compass technology" that you can pick up as a keychain accessory at a local toy store.
The Ukrainian army did NOT shoot the plane down.
Original post by ryan9900
The Chuckle Brothers.
For ****s sake. Nobody knows yet, as nothing has been confirmed. Why do you think anyone on here would know?
For ****s sake. Nobody knows yet, as nothing has been confirmed. Why do you think anyone on here would know?
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by XMaramena
Genuinely the funniest thing I've ever seen on here. If I ever met you, I would shake your hand.
Bull**** aside though, that is seriously hilarious
Well done.
Original post by billydisco
Having rockets fired in to your country isn't justification to retaliate?
try having your country illegally occupied, strangled, blockaded, denied basic resources & access to your own borders, waters, air space, everything, then having the people occupying you treat you like slaves if you dare seek refuge in their nation, then have them build illegal settlements on your land, then, maybe just then, you can understand why people might turn to any means to defend themselves against extreme oppression (this is without mentioning that the occupiers look for any excuse no matter how weak to justify routinely ethnically cleansing your population)
but hey, a few rockets that are intercepted by your advanced defense systems are clearly the real issue there
(edited 9 years ago)
Notice how Obama has left Cameron and his Government high and dry?
They were both shooting their mouths of with threats of sanctions against Putin. Putin stated that he would have to step up his military defences due to the increased threat from NATO.
What happens? Obama backs down and states it was rouge separatists and nothing to do with Putin after all.
Meanwhile Cameron is left out on a limb babling about sanctions and Clegg is now whittering about the world cup in russia and talk of confiscating Oligarch assets.
Result? Putin threatens to embargo assets belonging to UK companies in Russia.
So an airline belonging to a foreign nation is downed, no one shoots their mouths off or sabre ratles apart from the UK, the UK economy and the rest of us suffer just so that Cameron and Clegg can look macho on the worlds stage.
Putin has probably never even heard of Clegg. Putin does not do threats.
They were both shooting their mouths of with threats of sanctions against Putin. Putin stated that he would have to step up his military defences due to the increased threat from NATO.
What happens? Obama backs down and states it was rouge separatists and nothing to do with Putin after all.
Meanwhile Cameron is left out on a limb babling about sanctions and Clegg is now whittering about the world cup in russia and talk of confiscating Oligarch assets.
Result? Putin threatens to embargo assets belonging to UK companies in Russia.
So an airline belonging to a foreign nation is downed, no one shoots their mouths off or sabre ratles apart from the UK, the UK economy and the rest of us suffer just so that Cameron and Clegg can look macho on the worlds stage.
Putin has probably never even heard of Clegg. Putin does not do threats.
Original post by PassingAlways
try having your country illegally occupied, strangled, blockaded, denied basic resources & access to your own borders, waters, air space, everything, then having the people occupying you treat you like slaves if you dare seek refuge in their nation, then have them build illegal settlements on your land, then, maybe just then, you can understand why people might turn to any means to defend themselves against extreme oppression (this is without mentioning that the occupiers look for any excuse no matter how weak to justify routinely ethnically cleansing your population)
but hey, a few rockets that are intercepted by your advanced defense systems are clearly the real issue there
try having your country illegally occupied, strangled, blockaded, denied basic resources & access to your own borders, waters, air space, everything, then having the people occupying you treat you like slaves if you dare seek refuge in their nation, then have them build illegal settlements on your land, then, maybe just then, you can understand why people might turn to any means to defend themselves against extreme oppression (this is without mentioning that the occupiers look for any excuse no matter how weak to justify routinely ethnically cleansing your population)
but hey, a few rockets that are intercepted by your advanced defense systems are clearly the real issue there
So- you agree, rockets were fired in to Israel? Thanks- clears things up.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by billydisco
So- you agree, rockets were fired in to Israel? Thanks- clears things up.
in retaliation for everything Israel does I would suggest that a few crude rockets fired back at them is the least they deserve by their own standards (heck given what Israel uses self defense to justify, you could argue Hamas by the same justifications could fire a nuke at them & it would be fine)
Original post by PassingAlways
in retaliation for everything Israel does I would suggest that a few crude rockets fired back at them is the least they deserve by their own standards (heck given what Israel uses self defense to justify, you could argue Hamas by the same justifications could fire a nuke at them & it would be fine)
Israel didn't do anything, then some teenagers were killed and suddenly Hamas are firing rockets in to Israel again....
Ukraine's Zionist occupied government that was taken control of earlier this year thanks to $5 billion spent by Jewish neo-con Victoria Nuland and her tribe.
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