The Israel/Palestine Conflict Mk. IV

But it's Israel that are doing the actual murdering and fortunately it seems the rest of the world won't be buying that bull**** for much longer.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/30/gaza-crisis-israel-undermining-support-west-philip-hammond

If you drag a civilian into a combat zone, and the enemy kill them while trying to kill you - whose fault is it? The enemies for pulling the trigger, or you for unnecessarily endangering them?

I'd hope anyone would say you were at fault in that case: the shot that killed may come from Israeli hands, but it wouldn't have killed if Hamas hadn't put those civilians in deliberate danger.

Israeli Intelligence Officers Doubt Hamas Involvement In Incident That Sparked Gaza War


Does Pinzer or Miavdbt or any resident Zionist or IDF propagandist want to comment?

I don't believe the kidnapping was the main reason for the conflict.

If you drag a civilian into a combat zone, and the enemy kill them while trying to kill you - whose fault is it? The enemies for pulling the trigger, or you for unnecessarily endangering them?

I'd hope anyone would say you were at fault in that case: the shot that killed may come from Israeli hands, but it wouldn't have killed if Hamas hadn't put those civilians in deliberate danger.

I don't believe the kidnapping was the main reason for the conflict. I think it was the tipping point, but any similar event could have sparked off the conflict.

Also, Hamas actively brainwashes its population from the cradle to hate jews and Israel. So, indirectly, we could pin the kidnapping and murder on Hamas anyway. Why did Palestinians rejoice at the murder of the teens while later, Israelis condemned the murder of the Arab teen in the worst possible terms?

Netanyahu condemns murder of Arab teens, Abbas never condemned the murder of the three Israeli teens.

In fact, they had the Three Shalit Campaign to celebrate it.


Also, from your article:

Israeli police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld told the BBC last week that police believed the killers did not have ties to Hamas in Gaza — but did to Hamas in the West Bank.

So, the same terrorist organization with the same charter could be responsible. Heck, Hamas in Gaza could be responsible. We don't know.

Now, onto you TSR, for the Hamas propaganda side.

LOL.

Israel is a sovereign state created by the UN. Nobody immigrated illegally anyway. The indigenous people have included both Arabs and Jews. The Arabs and Jews were both given the right to their own state under the UN partition plan.

Tell me again, why the Arabs never got their state.

Also, answer my question.

Do you SUPPORT Hamas's actions and believe that this government is a good option for the people of Gaza?


I've asked you this many times and you've ignored it. I wonder why.

After a time, the whataboutery really starts to grate me but IDF propagandists are oblivious to it.

Netanyahu, Chindits, you, Pinzer all engage in it.

Simple question: WHY?

I think you and I clearly disagree on the definition of 'whataboutery'.

Whataboutery:
The fallacy of relative privation, or appeal to worse problems, is an informal fallacy which attempts to suggest that the opponent's argument should be ignored because there are more important problems in the world, despite the fact that these issues are often completely unrelated to the subject under discussion.
A well-known example of this fallacy is the response "but there are children starving in Africa," with the implication that any issue less serious than that is not worthy of discussion; or the common saying "I used to lament having no shoes, until I met a man who had no feet."


From wikipedia.

Explain how we have engaged in whataboutery under this definition.

It seems as if your history, like many ardent Zionists and blinded pro-Israeli's only commences from 1948.

I suggest you pick up a couple of history textbooks, ones that actually cover pre-1948...

Ok, there's currently ethnic cleansing of a 2,000 year old Christian population in Mosul?

All I'm saying is that NO conflict or incident gets as much press as this.

Syria got a few days as the main headline at the beginning of the conflict, then drifted in and out of the headline.

The Israel/Gaza thing has literally been pinned, It moved down a slot after MH17 for a day, then back to the biggest headline.

I think you and I clearly disagree on the definition of 'whataboutery'.

Whataboutery:
The fallacy of relative privation, or appeal to worse problems, is an informal fallacy which attempts to suggest that the opponent's argument should be ignored because there are more important problems in the world, despite the fact that these issues are often completely unrelated to the subject under discussion.
A well-known example of this fallacy is the response "but there are children starving in Africa," with the implication that any issue less serious than that is not worthy of discussion; or the common saying "I used to lament having no shoes, until I met a man who had no feet."


From wikipedia.

Explain how we have engaged in whataboutery under this definition.

Israel is a sovereign state created by the UN. Nobody immigrated illegally anyway. The indigenous people have included both Arabs and Jews. The Arabs and Jews were both given the right to their own state under the UN partition plan.

Hamas was created by Israel!

Think of it, Hamas would not exist if there was no Israel.
Think of it, who benefits from Hamas's rocket attacks? Israel does! Israel gets an excuse to do some more killing! Israel and Hamas are best buddies. They both have the same goals, and those are to wipe out each other! Who benefits from these goals? Israel! Because Israel can accomplish its goal and Hamas can't.
Think of it, they're both always using religious rhetoric, the only difference is that Hamas uses Islamic rhetoric and Israel uses Jewish rhetoric.

The Hamas-Israel conflict is riddled with circular arguments.
Israel attacks Palestine because Hamas rockets Israel, and it's Hamas's fault that Israel kills innocent Palestinian babies.
Hamas attacks Israel because Israel is not lifting the blockade on Gaza, so it's Israel's fault that Israeli civilians are in danger of Hamas rocket attacks.
The only one not benefitting from Hamas is Palestinians. Israel IS benefitting from Hamas.
Palestinians are being killed by Israel! Israel has an excuse in Hamas to kill Palestinians!

Conclusion: Israel created Hamas.

Well, a couple of reasons:

Firstly, there's often a kind of 'familiarity focus' in the media towards countries that, depending on how cynical you are, are more liberal/'Western'/white.

Secondly, focus on any issue is a vicious circle; when people are more interested in an issue, it gets more media attention, and so more people are interested, and so on.

To a large extent the media has always given disproportionate attention to this conflict, but the Palestinian side got almost no attention until the First Intifada, by which time an interested audience already existed.

'Fact' here meaning 'hyperbole'.

Tbh, I cook up all my mince if it's about to go off.

I have...

I was the one who told you about there never being a sovereign Palestinian state because the land was under the Ottoman Empire, and never under Arab rule. Once it was under the Roman Empire, and once it was ruled by Jewish people.

Here is a brief history:

Ancient Israel, The United and Divided Kingdom

It's important to note this particular statement before you attempt to twist this source from purdue.edu to serve your Hamas propaganda:

Our knowledge of the ancient history of Israel is largely based on one source, the Old Testament...As we have already seen with respect to the Stele of Merneptah, when external source material does survive it tends to confirm the general historical outline of the Old Testament; it certainly offers nothing to contradict it

EDIT: TSR IS AN ARDENT HAMAS SUPPORTER BUT CAN'T EXPLAIN WHY. I guess they don't program their robots with reasoning skills, all they can do is say: Hamas...good, Israel...bad, Hamas...good, Israel... bad. Yes, master!