Should the next government abolish tuition fees?
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(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by swan stardust
I believe that the government should pay for public education.My opinion is that education in all levels should be without tuition for the students. 
There would be a huge incentive for professional students. People never leaving academia simply because it's free.
Look how many postgrads there are today, when you have to pay for it - can you imagine if it were free?
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(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by swan stardust
I can understand what you're talking about.On the other hand,i think that what happens with education in Finland,Norway,Sweden,Denmark as well as France,Italy and Spain(i think education in these last three countries is either completely for free or with very low fees)is positive and there are no tuition fees for university.
Ok - France, Italy and Spain have low fees - yet attendance rates are about the same as UK or lower. There are also generally higher rates of general taxation.
The issue we have here is the "university or bust" culture and the idea that it benefits everyone. People go whether it's good for them or not.
It's not beyond anyone's imagination that if fees here went down, university attendance would soar. If we went back to the old days of grants and no fees - there would be no disincentive for everyone to go.
where would you take the money from?
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(edited 9 years ago)
There is a very simple reason not to. Can you please post a link to the claim that the balck hole will be 330bn, or even that it is 30bn because I think I already know where it's coming from, but now on to the reason we shouldn't:
If there aren't any tuition fees then the government will still be paying, however, if they pay it outright they lose the income from the loan repayments, of course there is still the benefit from higher income, from higher income tax and economic growth. Although, a graduate tax scheme probably would also recuperate losses, and likely more effective than the current system. Of course, the nice thing about the current system is it allows those on a high enough income to not get dragged into the long term loss from the loan/graduate tax.
Governments should be looking at universities, but not their funding, rather their attendance (ie, push people down other avenues instead) and standards (stop calling the old polys that let anybody in universities) and tackle any alleged financial issues that way. Not everybody needs to go to university.
If there aren't any tuition fees then the government will still be paying, however, if they pay it outright they lose the income from the loan repayments, of course there is still the benefit from higher income, from higher income tax and economic growth. Although, a graduate tax scheme probably would also recuperate losses, and likely more effective than the current system. Of course, the nice thing about the current system is it allows those on a high enough income to not get dragged into the long term loss from the loan/graduate tax.
Governments should be looking at universities, but not their funding, rather their attendance (ie, push people down other avenues instead) and standards (stop calling the old polys that let anybody in universities) and tackle any alleged financial issues that way. Not everybody needs to go to university.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by swan stardust
Regarding the ''university or bust'' comment,i agree that it would be good for people who go to university,to have given a lot of thought to the reasons they want to go and to have made sure it would benefit them in some way othewise they may get disappointed
I'm not really sure about that to be honest.I may have misunderstood,but would it be bad for (almost) everyone to attend university?I see it as a positive thing because if one wants to go to university,to learn about something they love,money shouldn't be in the way and they should have the opportunity to do.
UK is a very popular country for students from all over the world.Students who are not eligible for a student loan miss the opportunity to study in the country which has some of the best universities worldwide.
Also,when someone either from the UK or EU wants to do a second BA degree or a MA they have to fund it themselves which from my point of view,is unfair because-as in the first situation-they cannot do it due to the tuition fees.
I'm not really sure about that to be honest.I may have misunderstood,but would it be bad for (almost) everyone to attend university?I see it as a positive thing because if one wants to go to university,to learn about something they love,money shouldn't be in the way and they should have the opportunity to do.
UK is a very popular country for students from all over the world.Students who are not eligible for a student loan miss the opportunity to study in the country which has some of the best universities worldwide.
Also,when someone either from the UK or EU wants to do a second BA degree or a MA they have to fund it themselves which from my point of view,is unfair because-as in the first situation-they cannot do it due to the tuition fees.
Wait, what?
Are you suggesting that:
1. Everyone should be allowed to go to university, regardless of their actual ability to do read a subject?
2.Students from all countries should be able to study at UK universities free?
3. It is unfair that second and subsequent degrees are not funded?
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(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by swan stardust
1)From my point of view,people who want to go to university should have the opportunity to do so.Of course they should be intellectually capable of the course they have chosen.The criteria for their entry on the course should remain the same they are now.
If you make something free- everyone will want to do it. There are many more universities than there used to be and many more university places than there used to be. The institutions will make sure that there is a course for every person, regardless of their ability, and regardless of whether there is any practical need or benefit.
The natural outcome of this is very high levels of tertiary education, and no jobs for these people. You would end up with most people in traditionally low-skilled jobs holding degrees.
2)I know it's not practically possible for students from all countries to study for free in the UK.However,my personal views about the educational system i consider ideal,would allow that.
How is it ideal for the taxpayers of one country to pay for the people of every other country in the world to come and be educated for free?
Additionally, everyone in the world would want to come. There would be no space at university.
3)In general,i think it's unfair the fact that in order to get a university education (whether it's a first or second degree) you have to pay-even if you have the opportunity to not pay right away.
The student loan is great because you don't have to pay the fees immediately.However,i think it would be better if tuition fees hadn't been introduced.
The student loan is great because you don't have to pay the fees immediately.However,i think it would be better if tuition fees hadn't been introduced.
There is never going to be a situation where money is unlimited. Something has to give, and somebody has to pay.
Original post by 06shawm
No, it would simply not be sustainable for universities not to charge tuition fees. Universities offer a product, it is up to that person to do their research to see if they feel that product is a worthwhile investment. If they feel it isn't, don't go to university. Simple.
The problem is that people don't pay for it, that take loans that they never pay back.
Original post by swan stardust
I believe that the government should pay for public education.My opinion is that education in all levels should be without tuition for the students.
So, if this were to be introduced in 10 years time you'd be happy to pay more tax for tens of thousands of pensioners to do degrees which cost £15k/year (in todays money) for shizz and gigs...?
Original post by joker12345
The problem is that people don't pay for it, that take loans that they never pay back.
Under this model yes.
Theres nothing to stop the Govt/universities going back to mortgage style loans.
Original post by TheBBQ
Most of Europe has very low or even free tuition at a very similar level of quality.
The UK's higher education is a failure in comparison.
The UK's higher education is a failure in comparison.
Most of Europe has higher taxes.
Either you pay 'loans' (which are effectively a tax) after graduation, or you pay more in tax after graduation.
I don't see how its a failure, fees have made higher education more popular in the UK.
Original post by Llamageddon
where would you take the money from?
Taxes? Like it used to?
Reduced public spending in other areas?
Borrowing?
Take your pick really.
Original post by Jubz1
Perhaps abolished for worthwhile subjects.
Also, perhaps some charges if they drop out/perform bad?
Also, perhaps some charges if they drop out/perform bad?
Define worthwhile. Golf management has a 90% employment rate.
Rather than having the state define what's worthwhile it may be better to only give tuition fees for courses with a 50% employment or further education rate.
I don't think they should, since the costs do need to be covered. Higher education isn't exactly a necessity in life like primary and secondary are. I'd love free higher education, but I don't think it's possible at the moment in terms of practicality.
To be fair, the current system angered me at first, but I actually think it's not that bad. I will probably have to pay about £29000 (inc. year abroad), but this figure will most likely never be reached, unless I end up in a very successful career. Even then, I will simply treat it like a monthly bill. Paying £50 a month for the best years of your life, is a lot better than paying £50 for a mobile phone contract.
The good thing is that is you don't earn over a certain amount, you don't pay back. So basically, if you higher education fails you, it's no big.
Also I disagree that they should abolish fees for certain subjects. All that will do is influence people, particularly the less affluent, to study 'free degrees' over a subject they are passionate about and would do well in. So although you would get a higher intake, you also get a lower pass rate and more drop-outs, which is just more wasted money.
To be fair, the current system angered me at first, but I actually think it's not that bad. I will probably have to pay about £29000 (inc. year abroad), but this figure will most likely never be reached, unless I end up in a very successful career. Even then, I will simply treat it like a monthly bill. Paying £50 a month for the best years of your life, is a lot better than paying £50 for a mobile phone contract.
The good thing is that is you don't earn over a certain amount, you don't pay back. So basically, if you higher education fails you, it's no big.
Also I disagree that they should abolish fees for certain subjects. All that will do is influence people, particularly the less affluent, to study 'free degrees' over a subject they are passionate about and would do well in. So although you would get a higher intake, you also get a lower pass rate and more drop-outs, which is just more wasted money.
(edited 9 years ago)
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