The Israel/Palestine Conflict Mk. IV

Useless as "murderous weapons"...
A million marched against Iraq and nothing happened.
Thousands marched against student cuts and nothing happened.

The Iron Dome and Israelis taking cover are highly effective.
rs.

Israel knows how to protect Israelis. Hamas however doesn't.

There is only only one long term solution that will bring peace to the region and stop the bloodshed. That is Israel annexing Palestine, a single state solution in which both Israelis and Palestinians are given equal rights. Palestine would benefit massively from being part of Israel, there would be massive economic growth in the region and peoples lives would become much better.

Whilst I agree that in principle this is immoral as Israel has no right to annex Palestine, when judged by the outcomes, such a solution is the most humane and practical for delivering peace and prosperity to the region.

They are commiting war crimes, certainly.

But the death-toll is very, very, very, very small compared to pretty much any other major human rights breach in the past hundred years.

Hell ISIS have killed more Muslims in the past two months than Israel has killed in forty years. That's a massacre, Israel just has questionable war-tactics.

For the record, I am a huge Anti-Semite, I am not defending Israel.

Do you think tunneling oneself into Israel to kill or kidnap Zionist soldiers is cowardly?

Can anybody explain to me why a breach of a ceasefire necessitates a breakdown of said ceasefire?
Surely, given Iron Dome's modeling capabilities, capable of estimating where any mortar/rocket will land and thus whether to take action against it, it is also capable of working out where they cane from with pretty high reliability. It can take these coordinates and feed them into an Artillery battery, half a dozen shells down range and the problem is solved, the ceasefire can then resume for at least a few more hours until this happens again.
It in no way necessitates a continuation of full scale hostilities.

because an Israeli soilder was captured in a sneak attack by hamas ground forces, what is Israel to do? Not respond? Just allow hamas to capture and kill it's soilders and citizens? No of course not, it needs to respond it can't just allow Hamas to act as aggressors.

But Israel is a JEWISH state which means its a state for Jews (and no one else). It is not a nationality.

But Israel is a JEWISH state which means its a state for Jews (and no one else). It is not a nationality.

And this cannot wait for 72 hours until the ceasefire is over? After all, they know the soldier isn't likely to die.

Ceasefire

"a temporary suspension of fighting; a truce"

Hamas attacking and capturing an Israeli soldier is a breaking of the ceasefire, so the ceasefire is already over, Hamas broke the ceasefire.
Or was it Israel that broke it first? Has anybody independent of Israel or Hamas made an accusation? You're saying that Hamas broke purely because that's the official Israeli rhetoric, I assume.
And the breaking of a ceasefire isn't permanent, surely it's in Israel's interest to at least try to regain the moral high ground after the criticism they've been under. That means using proportional force to regain the peace, not disproportionate force to ensure a premature end.
Also worth noting that the Israelis tweeted saying that they had informed the UN that the ceasefire was over over half an hour before they made any claims to attacks against them, either that or the Hamas missiles are now equipped with anti-gravity devices.

How do they know another soldier won't die? They don't is the answer, in fact it is likely that Hamas would simply be emboldened to attack more if Israel was to not defend itself.

Your tax money is going to the Zionist forces to kill innocent civilians. You say you're a pacifist, but you pay to kill.

Yes, and not a wise decision.



Would you hide a rocket in your family's house? I wouldn't. First, I'm a pacifist and don't believe in fighting with weapons. Secondly, i love my family too much to put them in danger. Third, my government would have huge issues with rockets being in civilian neighborhoods.



The Qur'an is clear:
(I boldened some below.)

2:190 (Y. Ali) Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.
2:191 (Y. Ali) And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.
2:193 (Y. Ali) And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah. but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.

2:216 (Y. Ali) Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.

2:244 (Y. Ali) Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things.

3:167 (Y. Ali) And the Hypocrites also. These were told: "Come, fight in the way of Allah, or (at least) drive (The foe from your city)." They said: "Had we known how to fight, we should certainly have followed you." They were that day nearer to Unbelief than to Faith, saying with their lips what was not in their hearts but Allah hath full knowledge of all they conceal.
3:168 (Y. Ali) (They are) the ones that say, (of their brethren slain), while they themselves sit (at ease): "If only they had listened to us they would not have been slain." Say: "Avert death from your own selves, if ye speak the truth."
3:169 (Y. Ali) Think not of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead. Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord;
3:170 (Y. Ali) They rejoice in the bounty provided by Allah. And with regard to those left behind, who have not yet joined them (in their bliss), the (Martyrs) glory in the fact that on them is no fear, nor have they (cause to) grieve.

4:74 (Y. Ali) Let those fight in the cause of Allah Who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah,- whether he is slain or gets victory - Soon shall We give him a reward of great (value).
4:75 (Y. Ali) And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?- Men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will protect; and raise for us from thee one who will help!"

4:76 (Y. Ali) Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan: feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan.

4:77 (Y. Ali) Hast thou not turned Thy vision to those who were told to hold back their hands (from fight) but establish regular prayers and spend in regular charity? When (at length) the order for fighting was issued to them, behold! a section of them feared men as - or even more than - they should have feared Allah. They said: "Our Lord! Why hast Thou ordered us to fight? Wouldst Thou not Grant us respite to our (natural) term, near (enough)?" Say: "Short is the enjoyment of this world: the Hereafter is the best for those who do right: Never will ye be dealt with unjustly in the very least!

4:84 (Y. Ali) Then fight in Allah's cause - Thou art held responsible only for thyself - and rouse the believers. It may be that Allah will restrain the fury of the Unbelievers; for Allah is the strongest in might and in punishment.

4:89 (Y. Ali) They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-

4:95 (Y. Ali) Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-

8:38 (Y. Ali) Say to the Unbelievers, if (now) they desist (from Unbelief), their past would be forgiven them; but if they persist, the punishment of those before them is already (a matter of warning for them).
8:39 (Y. Ali) And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do.

8:65 (Y. Ali) O Messenger. rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers: for these are a people without understanding.
8:66 (Y. Ali) For the present, Allah hath lightened your (task), for He knoweth that there is a weak spot in you: But (even so), if there are a hundred of you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred, and if a thousand, they will vanquish two thousand, with the leave of Allah. for Allah is with those who patiently persevere.
8:67 (Y. Ali) It is not fitting for an apostle that he should have prisoners of war until he hath thoroughly subdued the land. Ye look for the temporal goods of this world; but Allah looketh to the Hereafter: And Allah is Exalted in might, Wise.
8:68 (Y. Ali) Had it not been for a previous ordainment from Allah, a severe penalty would have reached you for the (ransom) that ye took.
8:69 (Y. Ali) But (now) enjoy what ye took in war, lawful and good: but fear Allah. for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
8:70 (Y. Ali) O Messenger. say to those who are captives in your hands: "If Allah findeth any good in your hearts, He will give you something better than what has been taken from you, and He will forgive you: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."
8:71 (Y. Ali) But if they have treacherous designs against thee, (O Messenger.), they have already been in treason against Allah, and so hath He given (thee) power over them. And Allah so He Who hath (full) knowledge and wisdom.

8:72 (Y. Ali) Those who believed, and adopted exile, and fought for the Faith, with their property and their persons, in the cause of Allah, as well as those who gave (them) asylum and aid,- these are (all) friends and protectors, one of another. As to those who believed but came not into exile, ye owe no duty of protection to them until they come into exile; but if they seek your aid in religion, it is your duty to help them, except against a people with whom ye have a treaty of mutual alliance. And (remember) Allah seeth all that ye do.
8:73 (Y. Ali) The Unbelievers are protectors, one of another: Unless ye do this, (protect each other), there would be tumult and oppression on earth, and great mischief.

8:74 (Y. Ali) Those who believe, and adopt exile, and fight for the Faith, in the cause of Allah as well as those who give (them) asylum and aid,- these are (all) in very truth the Believers: for them is the forgiveness of sins and a provision most generous.

8:75 (Y. Ali) And those who accept Faith subsequently, and adopt exile, and fight for the Faith in your company,- they are of you. But kindred by blood have prior rights against each other in the Book of Allah. Verily Allah is well-acquainted with all things.

9:5 (Y. Ali) But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

9:13 (Y. Ali) Will ye not fight people who violated their oaths, plotted to expel the Messenger, and took the aggressive by being the first (to assault) you? Do ye fear them? Nay, it is Allah Whom ye should more justly fear, if ye believe!
9:14 (Y. Ali) Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers,

9:29 (Y. Ali) Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
9:30 (Y. Ali) The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

9:44 (Y. Ali) Those who believe in Allah and the Last Day ask thee for no exemption from fighting with their goods and persons. And Allah knoweth well those who do their duty.
9:45 (Y. Ali) Only those ask thee for exemption who believe not in Allah and the Last Day, and whose hearts are in doubt, so that they are tossed in their doubts to and fro.

9:81 (Y. Ali) Those who were left behind (in the Tabuk expedition) rejoiced in their inaction behind the back of the Messenger of Allah. they hated to strive and fight, with their goods and their persons, in the cause of Allah. they said, "Go not forth in the heat." Say, "The fire of Hell is fiercer in heat." If only they could understand!

9:82 (Y. Ali) Let them laugh a little: much will they weep: a recompense for the (evil) that they do.

9:83 (Y. Ali) If, then, Allah bring thee back to any of them, and they ask thy permission to come out (with thee), say: "Never shall ye come out with me, nor fight an enemy with me: for ye preferred to sit inactive on the first occasion: Then sit ye (now) with those who lag behind."

9:86 (Y. Ali) When a Sura comes down, enjoining them to believe in Allah and to strive and fight along with His Messenger, those with wealth and influence among them ask thee for exemption, and say: "Leave us (behind): we would be with those who sit (at home)."
9:87 (Y. Ali) They prefer to be with (the women), who remain behind (at home): their hearts are sealed and so they understand not.
9:88 (Y. Ali) But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper.

9:123 (Y. Ali) O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.

33:26 (Y. Ali) And those of the People of the Book who aided them - Allah did take them down from their strongholds and cast terror into their hearts. (So that) some ye slew, and some ye made prisoners.
33:27 (Y. Ali) And He made you heirs of their lands, their houses, and their goods, and of a land which ye had not frequented (before). And Allah has power over all things.

47:4 (Y. Ali) Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.

47:20 (Y. Ali) Those who believe say, "Why is not a sura sent down (for us)?" But when a sura of basic or categorical meaning is revealed, and fighting is mentioned therein, thou wilt see those in whose hearts is a disease looking at thee with a look of one in swoon at the approach of death. But more fitting for them-

48:15 (Y. Ali) Those who lagged behind (will say), when ye (are free to) march and take booty (in war): "Permit us to follow you." They wish to change Allah's decree: Say: "Not thus will ye follow us: Allah has already declared (this) beforehand": then they will say, "But ye are jealous of us." Nay, but little do they understand (such things).

48:16 (Y. Ali) Say to the desert Arabs who lagged behind: "Ye shall be summoned (to fight) against a people given to vehement war: then shall ye fight, or they shall submit. Then if ye show obedience, Allah will grant you a goodly reward, but if ye turn back as ye did before, He will punish you with a grievous Penalty."
48:17 (Y. Ali) No blame is there on the blind, nor is there blame on the lame, nor on one ill (if he joins not the war): But he that obeys Allah and his Messenger,- ((Allah)) will admit him to Gardens beneath which rivers flow; and he who turns back, ((Allah)) will punish him with a grievous Penalty.

59:2 (Y. Ali) It is He Who got out the Unbelievers among the People of the Book from their homes at the first gathering (of the forces). Little did ye think that they would get out: And they thought that their fortresses would defend them from Allah. But the (Wrath of) Allah came to them from quarters from which they little expected (it), and cast terror into their hearts, so that they destroyed their dwellings by their own hands and the hands of the Believers, take warning, then, O ye with eyes (to see)!
59:3 (Y. Ali) And had it not been that Allah had decreed banishment for them, He would certainly have punished them in this world: And in the Hereafter they shall (certainly) have the Punishment of the Fire.

59:4 (Y. Ali) That is because they resisted Allah and His Messenger. and if any one resists Allah, verily Allah is severe in Punishment.

61:4 (Y. Ali) Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure.


I thank God I'm not a sheik too. I couldn't be. I believe the Qur'an is not truly from God. I believe Muhammad is one of the false prophets that Jesus prophesied would come (Matthew 24:11; Matthew 24:24). I'm thankful to God for Jesus Christ and strive (though I'm not perfect; thank God for His amazing grace and love!) to obey Jesus' commands.



What is your interpretation of Jesus' command to love one's enemies (Matthew 5:44; Luke 6:27-37)? To me, Jesus' actions and commands are important. Jesus Christ did not kill anybody, nor did his followers who walked and talked with him.

Why would you put a flag foreign to you on your profile? You're not proud of your own country?