The Israel/Palestine Conflict Mk. IV

What? You have already given yourself away -- there's no point in trying to hide behind a cloak of respectability now. You are clearly very emotionally invested in this issue:

I understand entirely what you are saying. To clarify I 100% stand by what I say, if I was a Palestinian, I would be killing every single Israeli, in fact, every single Jew I could, that's just how I would feel.

Conversely, if I was an Israeli, I wouldn't care in the slightest about all the civilians who die in the pursuit of safety for myself and the Israeli people. Both sets of people live in fear. If I was a civilian in either populace, I would completely be in favour of what my government (whatever side that may be) is doing. This is EXACTLY where all of the issues stem from.

If I was to declare my personal position, I would find myself more in favour of the Palestinians based purely on a humanitarian basis, but I understand entirely 100% why the Israelis would do what they are doing. They are surrounded by enemies and have no choice but to be ever vigilant, a Jewish homeland MUST exist, and that sometimes requires lethal force.

The results of this poll are utterly shocking. There is NO excuse for chanting profanity, whatever the situation.

I'm not sure I agree with that. Israel is in an incredibly difficult situation, Hamas places their military assets in civilian areas, and civilian casualties have always been a feature of war. The number of Palestinians who have died in the present 3 week conflict with Israel is about the same number of people that have died every single week for the last 3 years in the Syrian Civil War. But I don't hear quite the same amount of outrage about that. I wonder if it has something to do with the fact that it is Je... I mean, Israelis, doing the killing.



You're absolutely right, so I find it really hard to fathom how you understand the geopolitical and diplomatic presures Israel and the IDF is under, and yet can call them the things you have. By the way, in the Pacific War, the Allies killed 100,000 Japanese civilians in a single night, in the firebombing of Tokyo (not the nuclear bombs, just the dropping of incendiaries on Tokyo on 8/9 March 1945. And General Sherman, after being begged not to by the citizens of Atlanta, burned the city to the ground in the American Civil War, after telling the citizens "War is cruel. War is cruelty". And that's what it is, he was right. There's no getting around it, and there's no way to fight a clean war)

Well, if I was in Shujaiya and i received one of these leaflets saying the IDF was coming in force, and to leave, I'd go anywhere but where I already was. Whether that means escaping to the rural fields of Gaza (of which there are many, it's not just one big city), or moving to another town and sleeping on the street.



Can it really be said to be a moral failing of Israel that they have managed their country and their situation better, and more wisely, than their opponents?



I question the assessment "through no fault of their own". In 1948, the UN partitioned the Levant into a Jewish State and an Arab State. Instead of accepting that, the Arabs chose to try to destroy the Jewish state (with significant support from the British). They failed. They tried again in 1967 and failed. You can't be the first resort to violence, and then complain about the outcome when you lose.]

Furthermore, in 1967 Israel begged King Hussein of Jordan (Jordan controlled the West Bank at that time) not to intervene in the war and fight with Syria and Egypt. Israel said that if Jordan stayed their hand, so would Israel. Jordan chose to attack, and as a result the West Bank came under Israeli control. Israel did not seek, nor did they want that territory.



Fair enough I take your point about discussing it at length and productively, I was just a bit taken aback about your comment about "the Jews will never forget the holocaust" and them being baby killers and so on. Those are very harsh and emotive words, and I don't think they take into account the complexities and the history (like, for example, the point I mentioned above htat ISrael didn't even want the West Bank, and tried to prevent the war in which they conquered it). Anyway, point taken.

In simple terms, a lot of people are dying, needlessly,

'UN spokesman cries on camera after Gaza school attack'

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/31/un-spokesman-chris-gunness-cries-gaza

'How can journalists be objective when writing about dead children'

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2014/aug/01/journalists-objective-writing-dead-children

'UN spokesman cries on camera after Gaza school attack'

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/31/un-spokesman-chris-gunness-cries-gaza

'How can journalists be objective when writing about dead children'

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2014/aug/01/journalists-objective-writing-dead-children

7

I agree that it's needless; if Hamas had not commenced a rocket bombardment of Israel, then no Palestinians would be dying now.



I should have thought the effective media war is being waged by Hamas, given the majority of sympathy is with them and most of the media images we see are of dead Palestinians. Why is it we've never seen the media being allowed to film Hamas firing rockets?



I know. Isn't it deplorable that Hamas base their rocket launchers next to the houses of people who have nothing to do with their campaign, knowing it will result in them being killed?



For me, the difference is that Assad has killed something like 100,000 Syrians, compared to 1500 Palestinians? Doesn't that seem relevant? And doesn't it seem relevant that the West has killed more civilians in Afghanistan than Israel has killed Palestinians?



Presumably you would agree that as far as the Muslim world goes, though, that *is* the case. They get far more worked up about 1000 dead Palestinians than they do about 100,000 dead Muslims, if those Muslims were killed by other Muslims?

PRSOM. ****ing spot on.

I genuinely believe that the "open prison" issue has actually made it get to the point where it is actually better to die fighting than a prisoner, the Palestinians are at best second class citizens in peace.

Most of the media images are of dead Palestinians because most of the dead are... Palestinians... It's a media war that truly is of the modern day, both sides throwing everything they can at the cameras.

And 100% yes, the Hamas basing their rocket sites alongside civilian sites is ENTIRELY part of the PR war, it is absolutely disgusting, absolutely shameful and it makes me feel sick, BUT it doesn't remove the fact that these people haven't done anything. Imagine the image of the tank, with the person in the way, do you think that tank should have run that man over to achieve it's goal?

And yes, without a doubt, the world gets more worked up about Israel killing Palestinians than Muslim on Muslim war, and I say this with some hesitation, but genuinely believe this, the world largely does not expect more from these muslim dictatorships, as a largely "Western" democracy, we have higher standards placed on countries like Israel, if anything they are a victim of their own westernised culture!

No doubt anyone that criticises what Israel does from a British/American perspective can only say so whilst being aware of the amazing levels of hypocrisy, but that doesn't make it any more right.

You sound like you're suggesting Israel is the victim. Anyways, you forgot the part where Israel do not want to sign the ceasefire?

+1 rep if I could, I've been a bit of a green gem whore today

Pahaha I love you, I am actually getting in trouble with my girlfriend because I spend more time talking to you than her recently!!!!! :P

So guys !! What do you think about the war in Palestine? you are with which side and why?