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The Israel/Palestine Conflict Mk. IV

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Original post by Pinzgauer
Seems to have worked. Did Hezbollah attack since 2006?


Interesting, so you spend all this time denying Israel's role in the intentional mass murder of civilians and then you claim it is justified. Mark Regev, is that you?
Original post by Bill_Gates
Oh Yes, Mohammed never had any conquests for land and power

LOL The hypocrisy of these Muslims is too much.


I'm an atheist lol.
Original post by UniOfLife
It would be pretty pointless to produce statistics that did not account for reality.


That's kind of my point. Yet people do this a surprising amount.
Israel are following The Hannibal Directive. simple as that. They would rather kill their own soldiers than have them captured by Hamas. captured soldiers are very valuable bargaining chips and thus Israel broke the ceasefire to kill the Israeli soldier and his captors. They have been doing this for over 30 years!

Posted from TSR Mobile
Excellent analysis.

Yet the palestinians have genocide of Israel in their charter.
Disapproving of the civilian casualties in the conflict, which are being disproportionately inflicted on Palestinian civilians, does not mean you have to support either Hamas or the Israeli government. This is something lots of people have trouble understanding.
I don't think corruption is the right word.

It's a case of factional divides in the UN hindering their efforts to achieve world peace.

I think the point on the UN human rights council is a good one. It's seen as an absolute moral authority when perhaps it should not, and it's true that the UN is turning a blind eye to lots of abuses throughout the world.
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
Disapproving of the civilian casualties in the conflict, which are being disproportionately inflicted on Palestinian civilians, does not mean you have to support either Hamas or the Israeli government. This is something lots of people have trouble understanding.


I don't think anyone has a problem with that.

It's the complete lack of objectivity. It's the willingness to accept casualty figures without seeing the manipulations behind the scenes.

It's the focus and scrutiny on Israel when there are very many other deadly conflicts in the region and indeed in Europe too.

How often in the news do we see a piece about Hamas tactics? all they say is that "Israel claims Hamas fires from civilian areas" - how about some proper journalism and investigate?

But they can't, because of fear from Hamas retribution. This is why journalists are afraid to tell the whole truth from Gaza about Hamas.
Original post by Clip
No, not at all.

Only the million-killing Iran-Iraq war, and getting heavily involved in Iraq and Syria in recent years.


But at least it has equality.
(edited 9 years ago)
So, at least this ceasefire has actually lasted a unit of time. I wonder why Israel agreed with it seeing as they totally want to commit genocide, right?
Original post by merrill
No idea, if you could quote me the figures I would be grateful because I don't actually know. They will be there, but probably hidden somewhere (proganda purposes obviously). An educated guess would be that Israel fires more artillery shells and bullets (certainly more bullets) whilst Hamas fires more mortar rounds and rockets.

And im more pro Israel, than pro Hamas, but this has been explained. Im certainly not pro killing civilians or anti Palestine.

This does not mean I wont be critical of Israel.

Posted from TSR Mobile


It seems like no one knows.

Israel complains about the media focus on the Palestinian casualties and rockets fired from Gaza but it never tells us how much munitions it's fired into Gazze.

Quite strange. One would almost think that they had something to hide...
Original post by Snagprophet
So, at least this ceasefire has actually lasted a unit of time. I wonder why Israel agreed with it seeing as they totally want to commit genocide, right?


Because they had egg on their faces from the "captured prisoner" debacle?
Original post by tsr1269
So there will still be civilian casualties?



A lot of people, especially those on the ground.

Does Israel control one half of the border? Are Egypt dancing to Israel's tune?

Did you ever consider that Egypt is not dancing to Israel's tune, but would rather keep its country as free of terrorist activity as possible? And that Gaza is run by a terrorist government which is why there is a blockade?

You can send 30 million tons of food. It'll all rot if Israel, or Egypt, does not allow it through.

That isn't true. There is food getting through as well as funds from various sources. Show me one source where it states that all humanitarian aid sent to Gaza rots in Israel and Egypt.

You want to hold HAMAS accountable like a government of a state but yet you refuse to recognise it and deal with them.d

I don't refuse to deal with them. Israel does. The point wasn't about their relations with Israel, however. The point was about what they do as a government for their people. Because, if no one else, at least their people consider them a legitimate government. It's disgusting that you try to excuse the fact that they haven't provided appropriate shelters and safety for civilians by the fact that Israel considers them terrorist.

Not the first time double standards have been employed..

Indeed.


If they are going to be killed either way, isn't it better that you get something major as a bargaining chip then just throwing your own life away on the cheap

I don't know, some would consider getting food and medicine back to what you claim to be an impoverished land much more major than blowing yourself up in a square and causing terror. Weren't you the one who said that Israel is trying to starve Gaza?



The only tangible link you've drawn is that they are "underground". I think that was pretty self-explanatory.

There is a reason why we call a shelter a shelter and a tunnel a tunnel. If you are confused, one is for "permanence" and one is simply to "move through". I'll let you decide which is which...

Yeah, no ****. But Hamas hasn't built shelters. They have built tunnels. They're not as safe as shelters, but safer than sitting on your house's roof while it gets bombed, I believe.



Could you give us a number?

Could you stop being so trivial? If you fire from the middle of an empty field rather than the middle of a busy city, then logically you will have far less civilian victims.

Then I urge you to pay a visit.

Have YOU been to Gaza? I know they organize 'camps' for Western extreme leftist university students in the West Bank and then show them through various methods of whining how difficult they have it. I wasn't aware they let just anyone go to Gaza, though.

But really, the major point which you have failed to address every single time is whether you believe that it's more important to place your crops at risk or your people at risk given that your crops are not going to be able to sustain your population anyway. You have failed to address it and have attempted to deflect from the original point by spouting ridiculous crap about how Gaza will not be able to be sustain itself if its crops are bombed and that's what Israel wants. Except, Gaza does not depend on its crops to sustain itself. It depends on Humanitarian Aid, anyway. So, address the point before you spout any more bull****, please.
Original post by UniOfLife
It doesn't matter how old they are. The fact remains that the number of dead Palestinians in Gaza is so small relative to the population that it has no effect on the life expectancy.


It kinda does when they are dead. I don't think you know how life expectancy is worked out...

People earlier in this thread claimed that the people of Gaza are not allowed food or basic medical supplies. Having established that this is not true, in what way is Gaza like a prison?


They are allowed the bare minimum in order to survive. They have to be dependent on the "goodwill" of the Israeli's (Jailers)...
Original post by Snagprophet
So, at least this ceasefire has actually lasted a unit of time. I wonder why Israel agreed with it seeing as they totally want to commit genocide, right?


:lol:

Sarcasm?
Original post by tsr1269
Because they had egg on their faces from the "captured prisoner" debacle?


I don't really get that. They thought one of their guys was prisoner, but now he's assumed dead. Why does this even matter? It's not as if their actions changed due to this.
Original post by miavdbt
Did you ever consider that Egypt is not dancing to Israel's tune, but would rather keep its country as free of terrorist activity as possible? And that Gaza is run by a terrorist government which is why there is a blockade?


Ironic when the now Egypt, was born out of terrorist activity.

That isn't true. There is food getting through as well as funds from various sources. Show me one source where it states that all humanitarian aid sent to Gaza rots in Israel and Egypt.


If Israel/Egypt does not let the goods through, can they be "sent back to sender"?

I don't refuse to deal with them. Israel does. The point wasn't about their relations with Israel, however. The point was about what they do as a government for their people. Because, if no one else, at least their people consider them a legitimate government. It's disgusting that you try to excuse the fact that they haven't provided appropriate shelters and safety for civilians by the fact that Israel considers them terrorist.


You are trying to hold them accountable like a government when no one else recognises them as a legitimate government.

You can't have double standards...

I don't know, some would consider getting food and medicine back to what you claim to be an impoverished land much more major than blowing yourself up in a square and causing terror. Weren't you the one who said that Israel is trying to starve Gaza?


Getting food/medicine for yourself = 1 brownie point.
Capturing a soldier = 1,000,000 brownie points.

You know you are hated when the "other side" would rather capture a soldier for all Palestinians than get food/medicine for themselves...

Yeah, no ****. But Hamas hasn't built shelters. They have built tunnels. They're not as safe as shelters, but safer than sitting on your house's roof while it gets bombed, I believe.


We've been over this.

It's Kind of redundant without any warning systems unless you advocate living in them permanently without any safe air supply. It'll be like the gas chambers...

Could you stop being so trivial? If you fire from the middle of an empty field rather than the middle of a busy city, then logically you will have far less civilian victims.


Let's try this another way:

If the Palestinians did as you suggested, how many casualties would have been inflicted by now instead of the 1,500 odd?

Have YOU been to Gaza? I know they organize 'camps' for Western extreme leftist university students in the West Bank and then show them through various methods of whining how difficult they have it. I wasn't aware they let just anyone go to Gaza, though.


It is difficult...

But really, the major point which you have failed to address every single time is whether you believe that it's more important to place your crops at risk or your people at risk given that your crops are not going to be able to sustain your population anyway. You have failed to address it and have attempted to deflect from the original point by spouting ridiculous crap about how Gaza will not be able to be sustain itself if its crops are bombed and that's what Israel wants. Except, Gaza does not depend on its crops to sustain itself. It depends on Humanitarian Aid, anyway. So, address the point before you spout any more bull****, please.


Listen fella:

The responsibility is Israel's to ensure that they do not kill civilians. It is not HAMAS's responsibility nor the responsibility of the Palestinians.

If Israel are so concerned about civilian casualties, they wouldn't carry out air strikes or a ground ops.
Original post by tsr1269
It kinda does when they are dead. I don't think you know how life expectancy is worked out...

They are allowed the bare minimum in order to survive. They have to be dependent on the "goodwill" of the Israeli's (Jailers)...


I don't think you know how statistics work. Even if all the dead died age 0 it would not affect the overall statistic because they would be outliers and overwhelmed by the sheer number of other data points.
Original post by Snagprophet
I don't really get that. They thought one of their guys was prisoner, but now he's assumed dead. Why does this even matter? It's not as if their actions changed due to this.


It did. They started pulling back their ground personnel...

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