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The Israel/Palestine Conflict Mk. IV

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Original post by Sic semper erat
I don't live far from the West Bank, but never bothered to visit. Much nicer places to see.


I agree. I hear Haifa and Eliat are not too bad this time of the year...
IDF "completes" tunnel objective.

*snorts*
Original post by Suetonius
No, it's simply meant to illustrate that saying that "Fight against terrorism" is 'universally used', in response to my point that you can't fight against terrorism (which is a tactic), means absolutely nothing. It is not 'universally' used, and my not using it quite clearly demonstrates that. In fact, a large number of educated people would - and do - find fault with such a concept.


Why are you on this thread? To discus illiterate quotes, spelling mistakes and lack of punctuation. We are having a debate and you have contributed next to nothing about it.
Original post by MASTER265
Why are you on this thread? To discus illiterate quotes, spelling mistakes and lack of punctuation. We are having a debate and you have contributed next to nothing about it.


Ok, you don't know what "universal" means.
Original post by tsr1269
But I thought Israel doesn't care about "international pressure", judging by some of the posts here by pro-Israeli's... ?


of course they care about international pressure- almost everyone does, apart form islamist terrorists, and humanity too. otherwise, could not israel just bomb gaza into complete dust without any concern of international reaction?
Original post by tsr1269

I don't think they have actually breached any ceasefires ?


they certainly did http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2014/08/02/us-condemns-hamas-for-ceasefire-breach.html

as well as refusing various attmepts for ceasefire - why?.
Original post by tsr1269

If you want to know why they "refuse them", then why don't you ask them?

im asking you, you are a self-proclaimed expert
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Suetonius
Ok, you don't know what "universal" means.

Of course I know what "universal" means for gods sake. In my context it does not mean every single soul on the planet has to use the term. Would you prefer "widely used and accepted"? I was presenting an argument and instead of you presenting your argument all you could do was highlight a technicality. I have heard politicians use it, academics, professors, directors, public speakers, comedians and almost every reporter yet no one comes on and says "I don't do/say/eat/watch...whatever...so it can't be universal". I mean't the majority, 99.9% as it were or however you like me to put it.
Original post by Meenglishnogood
of course they care about international pressure- almost everyone does, apart form islamist terrorists, and humanity too. otherwise, could not israel just bomb gaza into complete dust without any concern of international reaction?


they certainly did http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2014/08/02/us-condemns-hamas-for-ceasefire-breach.html

as well as refusing various attmepts for ceasefire - why?.

im asking you, you are a self-proclaimed expert


Without me searching through the pages am I right in thinking that the TSR guy believes Hamas has not broken any ceasefires?
Original post by Meenglishnogood
of course they care about international pressure- almost everyone does, apart form islamist terrorists, and humanity too. otherwise, could not israel just bomb gaza into complete dust without any concern of international reaction?


So the pro-Israeli's who say that "Israeli does not care about international pressure" are all liars?

they certainly did http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2014/08/02/us-condemns-hamas-for-ceasefire-breach.html

as well as refusing various attmepts for ceasefire - why?.


Yes, they also condemned HAMAS for "capturing an Israeli soldier" when all the time it turns out, they didn't.

I mean, if the US are issuing condemnations based on Israeli information, I'd be very wary.

Furthermore, I posted a link to an article which state the IAF bombed the strip a couple of minutes into the ceasefire. You can go and find it if you want...

im asking you, you are a self-proclaimed expert


No, I don't believe I've ever held myself out to be an "expert". Perhaps you'd like to direct me to such a post...
Original post by MASTER265
Without me searching through the pages am I right in thinking that the TSR guy believes Hamas has not broken any ceasefires?


I'm just asking him to substantiate his statements which coincidentally, a lot of pro-Israeli's have been unable to do.

Perhaps you'd like to have a bash at it after meenglishisnogood capitulates?
Original post by MASTER265
Without me searching through the pages am I right in thinking that the TSR guy believes Hamas has not broken any ceasefires?


yes indeed but then this is the same sage that doesnt think hamas is a terrorist organisation either, so it was almost predictable from him
Thanks guys, it has cleared up some of my confusion! Although I will have to read a lot of news articles from various sources to form an opinion on who is 'more wrong' than the other (as in, who is worse, Israelis or Palestinians). If I understand correctly, most of the western media will support the Israelis? (Although the BBC seems to share both sides of the story).

While there are conflicts in this post, it's clear that the suffering of innocent civilians needs to stop, regardless of who is 'right' and who is 'wrong'. Once again, thanks guys :smile:
Original post by MASTER265
Of course I know what "universal" means for gods sake. In my context it does not mean every single soul on the planet has to use the term. Would you prefer "widely used and accepted"? I was presenting an argument and instead of you presenting your argument all you could do was highlight a technicality. I have heard politicians use it, academics, professors, directors, public speakers, comedians and almost every reporter yet no one comes on and says "I don't do/say/eat/watch...whatever...so it can't be universal". I mean't the majority, 99.9% as it were or however you like me to put it.


You don't get to use key concepts in whatever way you please simply because it is "in [your] context" (whatever that means), or because of your appeals to authority (politicians, academics, professors etc.). Your whole point rested on the claim that it is "universally used", and I was simply illustrating that this isn't so. If you wished to make a separate point that accurately reflected your view then you ought to have done so initially.

If your point is that "fight against terrorism" is a valid concept because the majority (99.9%) use it then that is an argumentum ad populum and so is still meaningless/fallacious. You do actually have to argue for why you think it's a valid concept.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by tsr1269
So the pro-Israeli's who say that "Israeli does not care about international pressure" are all liars?...


i have no idea about other people, why dont you ask them. i only speak for myself here
Original post by tsr1269

Yes, they also condemned HAMAS for "capturing an Israeli soldier" when all the time it turns out, they didn't...
. didnt they?ok so they jsut killed him instead then?. i think youll find both killing and kidnapping serve to break a cease fire oh wise one....

Original post by tsr1269
I mean, if the US are issuing condemnations based on Israeli information, I'd be very wary. ?...
whos information should we be using- Islamists? Your personal blog?
Original post by tsr1269

Furthermore, I posted a link to an article which state the IAF bombed the strip a couple of minutes into the ceasefire. You can go and find it if you want......

i dont think anyone saw it, post it again, with the verified source

Original post by tsr1269

No, I don't believe I've ever held myself out to be an "expert". Perhaps you'd like to direct me to such a post...

i reckon youd like to think yourself so. but even if its a self-delusion, you still serve as an insight to the islamist manipulated mentality, which is sueful for us to examine in this conflict
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by tsr1269
I'm just asking him to substantiate his statements which coincidentally, a lot of pro-Israeli's have been unable to do.

Perhaps you'd like to have a bash at it after meenglishisnogood capitulates?


I am sorry I just thought this was a widely known fact. The UN published some reports on it did they not? A suicide bomber emerging from tunnels was known to of broke a UN ceasefire. No airstrike or artillery bombardment took place before the event and the ground offensive was dormant. There is sufficient evidence on that individual case amongst others
Original post by Suetonius
You don't get to use key concepts in whatever way you please simply because it is "in [your] context" (whatever that means), or because of your appeals to authority (politicians, academics, professors etc.). Your whole point rested on the claim that it is "universally used", and I was simply illustrating that this isn't so. If you wished to make a separate point that accurately reflected your view then you ought to have done so initially.

If your point is that "fight against terrorism" is a valid concept because the majority (99.9%) use it then that is an argumentum ad populum and so is still meaningless/fallacious. You do actually have to argue for why you think it's a valid concept.


I understand
Original post by Meenglishnogood
yes indeed but then this is the same sage that doesnt think hamas is a terrorist organisation either, so it was almost predictable from him


I do not understand. There is overwhelming evidence to support the fact Hamas broke the 72-hour ceasefire. A suicide bomber emerged from the tunnel network in Israeli territory, how can anyone dispute that. It proves not only they broke a ceasefire but in fact Hamas is a terrorist organisation.
Original post by MASTER265
I do not understand. There is overwhelming evidence to support the fact Hamas broke the 72-hour ceasefire. A suicide bomber emerged from the tunnel network in Israeli territory, how can anyone dispute that. It proves not only they broke a ceasefire but in fact Hamas is a terrorist organisation.


youll have to ask him - i do not try to rationalise the mindset of the islamist indoctrinate, i jsut commentate on it
Original post by Meenglishnogood
i have no idea about other people, why dont you ask them. i only speak for myself here


So in your opinion, Israel bows down to international pressure?

I assure you, this one will come back to bite you in the ass.

. didnt they?ok so they jsut killed him instead then?. i think youll find both killing and kidnapping serve to break a cease fire oh wise one....


It turns out that the IDF were moving deeper into Gaza. I don't think that was part of any ceasefire agreement, if it was indeed accepted...

whos information should we be using- Islamists? Your personal blog?


Qassam did state that they had lost contact with their troops and it was probably an artillery shell which pulverised Hadar Goldin.

Lo and behold! They turned out to be right...

i dont think anyone saw it, post it again, with the verified source


Times of Israel. Friday/Saturday's edition or whatever day the ceasefire was planned.

Get hunting...

i reckon youd like to think yourself so. but even if its a self-delusion, you still serve as an insight to the islamist manipulated mentality, which is sueful for us to examine in this conflict


I'm still hearing words like "think" and "self" and "like". I'm not hearing my own words being played back to me...
Original post by MASTER265
I am sorry I just thought this was a widely known fact. The UN published some reports on it did they not? A suicide bomber emerging from tunnels was known to of broke a UN ceasefire. No airstrike or artillery bombardment took place before the event and the ground offensive was dormant. There is sufficient evidence on that individual case amongst others


Depending on who you choose to believe, there were a couple of noteworthy incidents.

a) HAMAS stated that they never accepted the ceasefire.
b) In that case, the unilateral ceasefire by Israel was broken after the IAF bombed the strip just a couple of minutes after the ceasefire came into effect.
c) HAMAS's response was in relation to the IDF troops penetrating further into Gaza which everyone is just so damned confused about.

It'll be interesting to see your response...
Hamas are the terrorists they say
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