Best intelligence agency in the world
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Original post by ronmack
**** war, why can't we ****ing move on? Trading would be a good start dam
It doesn't help when Pakistan can't go a day in a year without violating the ceasefire, or can't go extended periods of time without sending terrorists into India to just clock up as many kills as they can.
Refer to the ISI handler of 26/11.
I believe India is waiting on Pakistan for a more favourable trading status.
Original post by Darth Stewie
MI6 and the CIA/Mossad are not the same type of groups. the CIA and Mossad are more akin to paramilitary organizations while MI6 have the job of collecting data and passing it on through the appropriate channels. to put it in simple terms the CIA and Mossad do what combined MI6/MI5/Special Branch/various military intelligence agencies do thus they are more effective because they have a much broader job description, have vastly more capabilities than MI6 and are much better funded. To put this in perspective the UK is estimated to spend around 3 billion dollars on all our intelligence services while the CIA alone had a budget of 14.3 billion dollars in 2013 also keep in mind the US has 17 active intelligence agencies compared to our 3. Mossads funding is classified however it would probably be the same as the CIA's if not more.
The NSA would be above all others (especially in funding) however unfortunately it is not on either list provided probably due to it mainly dealing with the internal security of the US as oppose to global intelligence gathering which seems to be the focus of both lists
The NSA would be above all others (especially in funding) however unfortunately it is not on either list provided probably due to it mainly dealing with the internal security of the US as oppose to global intelligence gathering which seems to be the focus of both lists
I agree with almost everything you've said here.
I think big budget does not mean "best" as I don' think americas intelligence is as frugal or effective as it could be. I think mossads budget is smaller than america just due to the economy of israel and israel not having the same amount to spend as america. unless you mean % of budget in which case i'd say israel spends more on its intelligence than america by proportion.
Original post by Ggmu!
It doesn't help when Pakistan can't go a day in a year without violating the ceasefire, or can't go extended periods of time without sending terrorists into India to just clock up as many kills as they can.
Refer to the ISI handler of 26/11.
I believe India is waiting on Pakistan for a more favourable trading status.
Refer to the ISI handler of 26/11.
I believe India is waiting on Pakistan for a more favourable trading status.
If both countries will keep playing blaming game then nothing will get done and everyday poor people die in both countries because of some retard who can't get their head straight.
Original post by ronmack
If both countries will keep playing blaming game then nothing will get done and everyday poor people die in both countries because of some retard who can't get their head straight.
So you're telling me that ISI being involved in 26/11 isn't a big deal? Are you ****ing crazy?
It's one party that doesn't want peace; Pakistan.
India can play nice but what will happen? Pakistan will send their terrorists, suicide bombers etc and keep killing us. India has been playing very nice, considering India hasn't obliterated it for the hundreds of ceasefire violations, beheading of one soldier and mutilation of another. Not to mention their occupation of OUR state. Oddly enough, it's Indians who are disgustingly sympathetic to the evil aims of the Islamist wannabe nuclear state.
Original post by Ggmu!
So you're telling me that ISI being involved in 26/11 isn't a big deal? Are you ****ing crazy?
It's one party that doesn't want peace; Pakistan.
India can play nice but what will happen? Pakistan will send their terrorists, suicide bombers etc and keep killing us. India has been playing very nice, considering India hasn't obliterated it for the hundreds of ceasefire violations, beheading of one soldier and mutilation of another. Not to mention their occupation of OUR state. Oddly enough, it's Indians who are disgustingly sympathetic to the evil aims of the Islamist wannabe nuclear state.
It's one party that doesn't want peace; Pakistan.
India can play nice but what will happen? Pakistan will send their terrorists, suicide bombers etc and keep killing us. India has been playing very nice, considering India hasn't obliterated it for the hundreds of ceasefire violations, beheading of one soldier and mutilation of another. Not to mention their occupation of OUR state. Oddly enough, it's Indians who are disgustingly sympathetic to the evil aims of the Islamist wannabe nuclear state.
aight stop with that. srs. Imagine if India spend the nuclear money in it's economics, we would not have one hungry child in India.
Original post by ronmack
aight stop with that. srs. Imagine if India spend the nuclear money in it's economics, we would not have one hungry child in India.
Do you even logic?
India already has enough money to feed everyone ten times over. Corrupt government officials with access to public projects is what keeps people hungry. We even have a wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_black_money
I don't think you know anything about India-Pakistan conflict or economics, as evidenced by your statements.
Now I know your sympathy is with Pakistan because it's a Muslim country, pretty obvious. Also funny how you criticise India there, a superpower with every right to nuclear power, but not Pakistan, a country that almost USED it on us.
Inter service intelligence (ISI), Pakistan
they're scared of india. probably play russia and britain off each other since britain and russia have both been cock measuring over neighbouring afghanistan for almost two centuries. but pakistan along with india has fallen to chinese intelligence and political pressure.
Research and Analysis Wing (RAW), India
basically the same as pakistan but better funded and takes more initiative. pakistan v india, india comes out on top every time.
india is also more willing to learn. whereas pakistan is more arrogant but is a little more suited at playing people off of each other. however due to pakistans constant playing both sides off of each other nobody knows where pakistans loyalties are and thus won't share info as allies in the same way the west does.
Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS), Canada
Australian Secret Intelligence Service (ASIS), Australia
both pretty similar. both off shoots of british intelligence. canada has pretty much 3 cities to its name whereas australia is still a little closer to britain in terms of military and cooperation. canada can surprise but they surprise for a reason. australia is more active in South East Asia. the steaks in SEA are more fruitful for british intelligence to share than what canadian intelligence can offer on the U.S.
The Bundesnachrichtendienst's (BND), Germany
don't know much about current german intelligence. but certainly they weren't to mess with during the Red Army Faction days. certainly germany is very intelligent economically and has historically proven itself time and time again to be a power house of intelligence and military.
Direction Generale De La Securite Exterieure (DGSE), France
france has been on similar levels to britain on and off. france certainly has a different style of doing things to england and it could be argued that they are not as good. however france did rise from wwii with a more aggressive agenda has climbed rapidly economically arguably better than england after wwii and has similar colonial links. however britain does have much more favourable territories like panama, egypt, kenya, nigeria, south africa, oman, yemen. so the uk has much higher control over the seas and trade links whereas france has more links across north africa and perhaps djibouti. but i think frances issues with such large immigrant populations has lead to better anti terror and surveillance and increasingly conflicting interests with america can, i imagine, have caused france to beef up its counter espionage.
Central Intelligence Agency, CIA, United States
the CIA is a neanderthal and a bully of other more sophisticated intelligence agencies. there is a review around the corner for the CIA since they have proven less effective than the FBI. proving budget does not always mean superior, training, technique or tactic. americas aggressive approach has caused it to become alienated intelligence wise. that does not mean they do not work with people. but for example when Vasili Mitrokhin turned against russia he went to the less violent nation of Britain with his Archive of files.
The Institute For Intelligence and Special Operation (MOSAD), Israel
Mosad are just a continental CIA. they are very good as a paramilitary force. but in terms of espionage and intelligence gathering are still not on parr with britain. they burn bridges almost as soon as they build them and get caught on numerous operations that they simply don't care about having made public. such as the assassination in dubai for one thing. they seize their first opportunity far too often and don't look far ahead enough.
Secret Intelligence Services/MI6, United Kingdom
one of the best. they have their fingers in a lot of pies. they are also very good at disposing of unneeded sources without burning bridges.
for example they had informants in the IRA and when they were done would often purposefully let them be exposed as an informant so that the IRA killed them. it would also mean that they don't have to pay them that "if it gets too hot we'll move you and your family out the country and put you in protection and we'll pay you a lump sum to live off as compensation plus payment for your efforts" money. they stand to be more effective than france. less messy than mosad and more diplomatically appealing than america. however even britains intelligence has not been a total winner. the IRA have proven themselves quite nifty against MI6. the IRA did after all fire an RPG at the ministry of defence from a park in 2000. and got away with it.
Federal Security Services (FSB), Russia
decrepit and malfunctioning. not what it used to be. resources are more increasingly going into GRU while FSB is being shrunk. the FSB is essentially the domestic GRU similar to what britains MI5 is the domestic MI6.
Main Intelligence Directorate (GRU), Russia
this is russias answer to the CIA. it is russia's big cock (as in rooster) on the block. while america might be more powerful in terms of brute force. russia is simply more creative and intelligent. where it lacks in budget it focuses on quality rather than quantity. its intelligence services have proven very robust against america during its height of power and also more increasingly guarding itself from its ever hungry neighbour china aswell as the british over in the pashtun region and northern middle east areas near the black sea.
so russia has a lot on its place and for what it needs to do does it very well. while america may be the white chess piece that always makes the first move, russia is the black chess piece that always makes an equally cunning response. while russia currently may be clashing with britain in regards to EU vs Russian Federation it has always had a frienemy relationship with Britain which we see with the Mitrokhin Archive and the Litvinenko assassination. it also seems that despite russias cold reputation it actually follows its bargains through and looks after its informants. whilst not necessarily very well, it still doesn't feed them to the lions like britain and america.
Ministry of State Security (MSS), China
the most silent of the giants in the intelligence world. and the most cunning, antagonistic and probing of the superpower that is america.
china is also sinking its fingers into india, singapore, japan, korea, taiwan, russia and africa. it leaves the least trace of the above intelligence agencies and as a communist nation also favours quality over quantity due to its limited budget.
most of the intelligence attacks on america are done by china. it has left a much smaller trace than russia (see litvinenko and mitrokhin) britain (see gibralta assassination, omagh bombing and loads more basically just IRA) and mossad (see dubai assassination).
they're scared of india. probably play russia and britain off each other since britain and russia have both been cock measuring over neighbouring afghanistan for almost two centuries. but pakistan along with india has fallen to chinese intelligence and political pressure.
Research and Analysis Wing (RAW), India
basically the same as pakistan but better funded and takes more initiative. pakistan v india, india comes out on top every time.
india is also more willing to learn. whereas pakistan is more arrogant but is a little more suited at playing people off of each other. however due to pakistans constant playing both sides off of each other nobody knows where pakistans loyalties are and thus won't share info as allies in the same way the west does.
Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS), Canada
Australian Secret Intelligence Service (ASIS), Australia
both pretty similar. both off shoots of british intelligence. canada has pretty much 3 cities to its name whereas australia is still a little closer to britain in terms of military and cooperation. canada can surprise but they surprise for a reason. australia is more active in South East Asia. the steaks in SEA are more fruitful for british intelligence to share than what canadian intelligence can offer on the U.S.
The Bundesnachrichtendienst's (BND), Germany
don't know much about current german intelligence. but certainly they weren't to mess with during the Red Army Faction days. certainly germany is very intelligent economically and has historically proven itself time and time again to be a power house of intelligence and military.
Direction Generale De La Securite Exterieure (DGSE), France
france has been on similar levels to britain on and off. france certainly has a different style of doing things to england and it could be argued that they are not as good. however france did rise from wwii with a more aggressive agenda has climbed rapidly economically arguably better than england after wwii and has similar colonial links. however britain does have much more favourable territories like panama, egypt, kenya, nigeria, south africa, oman, yemen. so the uk has much higher control over the seas and trade links whereas france has more links across north africa and perhaps djibouti. but i think frances issues with such large immigrant populations has lead to better anti terror and surveillance and increasingly conflicting interests with america can, i imagine, have caused france to beef up its counter espionage.
Central Intelligence Agency, CIA, United States
the CIA is a neanderthal and a bully of other more sophisticated intelligence agencies. there is a review around the corner for the CIA since they have proven less effective than the FBI. proving budget does not always mean superior, training, technique or tactic. americas aggressive approach has caused it to become alienated intelligence wise. that does not mean they do not work with people. but for example when Vasili Mitrokhin turned against russia he went to the less violent nation of Britain with his Archive of files.
The Institute For Intelligence and Special Operation (MOSAD), Israel
Mosad are just a continental CIA. they are very good as a paramilitary force. but in terms of espionage and intelligence gathering are still not on parr with britain. they burn bridges almost as soon as they build them and get caught on numerous operations that they simply don't care about having made public. such as the assassination in dubai for one thing. they seize their first opportunity far too often and don't look far ahead enough.
Secret Intelligence Services/MI6, United Kingdom
one of the best. they have their fingers in a lot of pies. they are also very good at disposing of unneeded sources without burning bridges.
for example they had informants in the IRA and when they were done would often purposefully let them be exposed as an informant so that the IRA killed them. it would also mean that they don't have to pay them that "if it gets too hot we'll move you and your family out the country and put you in protection and we'll pay you a lump sum to live off as compensation plus payment for your efforts" money. they stand to be more effective than france. less messy than mosad and more diplomatically appealing than america. however even britains intelligence has not been a total winner. the IRA have proven themselves quite nifty against MI6. the IRA did after all fire an RPG at the ministry of defence from a park in 2000. and got away with it.
Federal Security Services (FSB), Russia
decrepit and malfunctioning. not what it used to be. resources are more increasingly going into GRU while FSB is being shrunk. the FSB is essentially the domestic GRU similar to what britains MI5 is the domestic MI6.
Main Intelligence Directorate (GRU), Russia
this is russias answer to the CIA. it is russia's big cock (as in rooster) on the block. while america might be more powerful in terms of brute force. russia is simply more creative and intelligent. where it lacks in budget it focuses on quality rather than quantity. its intelligence services have proven very robust against america during its height of power and also more increasingly guarding itself from its ever hungry neighbour china aswell as the british over in the pashtun region and northern middle east areas near the black sea.
so russia has a lot on its place and for what it needs to do does it very well. while america may be the white chess piece that always makes the first move, russia is the black chess piece that always makes an equally cunning response. while russia currently may be clashing with britain in regards to EU vs Russian Federation it has always had a frienemy relationship with Britain which we see with the Mitrokhin Archive and the Litvinenko assassination. it also seems that despite russias cold reputation it actually follows its bargains through and looks after its informants. whilst not necessarily very well, it still doesn't feed them to the lions like britain and america.
Ministry of State Security (MSS), China
the most silent of the giants in the intelligence world. and the most cunning, antagonistic and probing of the superpower that is america.
china is also sinking its fingers into india, singapore, japan, korea, taiwan, russia and africa. it leaves the least trace of the above intelligence agencies and as a communist nation also favours quality over quantity due to its limited budget.
most of the intelligence attacks on america are done by china. it has left a much smaller trace than russia (see litvinenko and mitrokhin) britain (see gibralta assassination, omagh bombing and loads more basically just IRA) and mossad (see dubai assassination).
Surely anyone who is actually informed about this is not allowed to talk about it?
Original post by TimmonaPortella
Surely anyone who is actually informed about this is not allowed to talk about it?
Intelligence services are government agencies, you can submit requests for information just like you can for pretty much any other government agency. Obviously sensitive information can't be obtained but information on how they run, what their responsibilities are, general financial information and general activities is all freely available. If you are really nice you can even get them to give you a tour of the SIS building although you can't take pictures but that's the same for a lot of government and military organizations that handle sensitive and classified data.
The whole cloak and dagger thing is really just Hollywood trying to sell films, European intelligence agencies in particular are no where near as dodgy as people think they are. The CIA is not as open but you can still find abundant amounts of information on what their responsibilities are and their past activities and they have a virtual tour of their Langley office on their website, certain parts are also open to physical tours however from my understanding you need to be an American citizen and also go through various security checks to do so. The museum is meant to be really cool, they have artefacts showing the history and development of the CIA including old spy plane and tech prototypes that were never introduced into the field. they also have a big memorial section where they put a star for someone who died in the line of duty and have a big garden dedicated to them.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Darth Stewie
Intelligence services are government agencies, you can submit requests for information just like you can for pretty much any other government agency. Obviously sensitive information can't be obtained but information on how they run, what their responsibilities are, general financial information and general activities is all freely available. If you are really nice you can even get them to give you a tour of the SIS building although you can't take pictures but that's the same for a lot of government and military organizations that handle sensitive and classified data.
The whole cloak and dagger thing is really just Hollywood trying to sell films, European intelligence agencies in particular are no where near as dodgy as people think they are. The CIA is not as open but you can still find abundant amounts of information on what their responsibilities are and their past activities and they have a virtual tour of their Langley office on their website, certain parts are also open to physical tours however from my understanding you need to be an American citizen and also go through various security checks to do so. The museum is meant to be really cool, they have artefacts showing the history and development of the CIA including old spy plane and tech prototypes that were never introduced into the field. they also have a big memorial section where they put a star for someone who died in the line of duty and have a big garden dedicated to them.
The whole cloak and dagger thing is really just Hollywood trying to sell films, European intelligence agencies in particular are no where near as dodgy as people think they are. The CIA is not as open but you can still find abundant amounts of information on what their responsibilities are and their past activities and they have a virtual tour of their Langley office on their website, certain parts are also open to physical tours however from my understanding you need to be an American citizen and also go through various security checks to do so. The museum is meant to be really cool, they have artefacts showing the history and development of the CIA including old spy plane and tech prototypes that were never introduced into the field. they also have a big memorial section where they put a star for someone who died in the line of duty and have a big garden dedicated to them.
You definitively cannot tour the SIS building. I'm curious as to where you got that information; even those trying to get into MI5/MI6 are treated as hostile on assessment days. I doubt random members of the public would be treated better and let in.
Original post by Ggmu!
Do you even logic?
India already has enough money to feed everyone ten times over. Corrupt government officials with access to public projects is what keeps people hungry. We even have a wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_black_money
I don't think you know anything about India-Pakistan conflict or economics, as evidenced by your statements.
Now I know your sympathy is with Pakistan because it's a Muslim country, pretty obvious. Also funny how you criticise India there, a superpower with every right to nuclear power, but not Pakistan, a country that almost USED it on us.
India already has enough money to feed everyone ten times over. Corrupt government officials with access to public projects is what keeps people hungry. We even have a wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_black_money
I don't think you know anything about India-Pakistan conflict or economics, as evidenced by your statements.
Now I know your sympathy is with Pakistan because it's a Muslim country, pretty obvious. Also funny how you criticise India there, a superpower with every right to nuclear power, but not Pakistan, a country that almost USED it on us.
Pakistan has more nukes then India so chill the **** out on war. UK, USA etc are all corrupt, if you think they are not corrupt then your delusional.
In future read your own source
Original post by ronmack
Pakistan has more nukes then India so chill the **** out on war. UK, USA etc are all corrupt, if you think they are not corrupt then your delusional.
In future read your own source
In future read your own source
Pretty sure they don't. But even if they do, India doesn't need that many, how big is Pakistan? Number of missiles is irrelevant. Look at the damage one unsophisticated bomb did in hiroshima. Imagine what one would do now.
Nice pro Pakistani support though. I didn't even bring up war, I brought up nuclear capability. Which Pakistan cannot be trusted with. As I said, they threatened to use it on India. So your family would probably have been affected somehow by your beloved Pakistan.
Yes they are corrupt... How is that even relevant though?
Posted from TSR Mobile
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Ggmu!
Pretty sure they don't. But even if they do, India doesn't need that many, how big is Pakistan? Number of missiles is irrelevant. Look at the damage one unsophisticated bomb did in hiroshima. Imagine what one would do now.
Nice pro Pakistani support though. I didn't even bring up war, I brought up nuclear capability. Which Pakistan cannot be trusted with. As I said, they threatened to use it on India. So your family would probably have been affected somehow by your beloved Pakistan.
Yes they are corrupt... How is that even relevant though?
Posted from TSR Mobile
Nice pro Pakistani support though. I didn't even bring up war, I brought up nuclear capability. Which Pakistan cannot be trusted with. As I said, they threatened to use it on India. So your family would probably have been affected somehow by your beloved Pakistan.
Yes they are corrupt... How is that even relevant though?
Posted from TSR Mobile
http://www.businessinsider.com/nine-nations-have-nukes--heres-how-many-each-country-has-2014-6
wtf makes you think I'm supporting pakistan? If pakistan cannot be trusted so is india. Srs your talking about damage it could do to other countries. wow well done.
Original post by ronmack
http://www.businessinsider.com/nine-nations-have-nukes--heres-how-many-each-country-has-2014-6
wtf makes you think I'm supporting pakistan? If pakistan cannot be trusted so is india. Srs your talking about damage it could do to other countries. wow well done.
wtf makes you think I'm supporting pakistan? If pakistan cannot be trusted so is india. Srs your talking about damage it could do to other countries. wow well done.
What's wrong with you, why are you talking about nuclear bombs? That's so messed up.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Ggmu!
What's wrong with you, why are you talking about nuclear bombs? That's so messed up.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Posted from TSR Mobile
I don't support nuclear weapons, there is nothing wrong with talking about it.
Original post by SarcasticMel
BND is trash. From the bits and pieces journalists manage to figure out it's a bunch of amateurs.
For an intelligence agency there's nothing better than being underestimated. The BND has produced a lot of high quality information, in a paper dated a couple of years ago the GCHQ expressed admiration for the BND's capabilities.
Original post by ronmack
I don't support nuclear weapons, there is nothing wrong with talking about it.
So why are you acting as if I'm advocating war?
I could just follow your tactic and continue telling you war is terrible (not that you said it's good) because I don't want to respond to your points. That's what you've been doing in every post of mine. Ignoring the content and replying non related posts. Like 'who has more nukes' (nice to see who you were batting for) when the number of nukes isn't important. I tried explaining why and you took that as some kind of advocacy for war.
But I'm glad to know, a fellow Indian doesn't mind their aggressive neighbour state having nukes which can be used on his family and countrymen. Not to mention they have once been on the brink of it and continue to shoot at our border...
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Sir Fox
For an intelligence agency there's nothing better than being underestimated. The BND has produced a lot of high quality information, in a paper dated a couple of years ago the GCHQ expressed admiration for the BND's capabilities.
Have you heard of the NSU trial? The BND ****ed up so bad with this one...
Original post by SarcasticMel
Have you heard of the NSU trial? The BND ****ed up so bad with this one...
Verfassungsschutz, not BND.
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