The Spanish Football Thread

How did Moreno play

Moreno didn't play. Navarro played.

Ronaldo loves a tap in

He's actually the most underrated player in the world. I think I will cry when he stops playing football.

Anyway I came in the thread to ask if anyone has seen much of that Sanchez lad at Elche, the Colombian? Malevolent, qua?

We are close to signing him.

Bale's cross was magnificent.

It's fairly evident Madrid have the best squad in the world, best player in the world and best manager in the world, not to mention Don Perez.

The mighty Madrid are going to kill Barca this season. It will be so one-sided the Catalans will be crying into their Escalivada for years to come.

Agree with the bold for Howedes.

I agree with Bojan not being able to cope with the pressure, but I read around his youth career a while ago, and it was along the lines of 'the greatest youth player I've ever seen', 'broke every single la Masia goalscoring record at all levels', 'better than Messi was until the first team', which would make it seem the hype was justifiable? Why was he prematurely (in your view) promoted then?

Decent signing if true. Didn't watch too many Elche games last season but he's quite physical, has good workrate and speed. His technique isn't the best and I remember him being quite sloppy with his passing (e.g. in the last game vs Barça, apart from that great game though), but in Elche's system that wasn't a problem as they don't play the Spanish pass & move game anyway; his role in the team is just to sit in front of the back four, provide tackles & then bomb forward in possession. So not really a typical la liga midfielder, but a good player that I can see doing well in the PL. (He was the one who "conceded" that fake 94th-minute penalty on Pepe in their first game vs Real btw , probably the most memorable moment from him for me )

'the greatest youth player I've ever seen' - Tbh it's easy to say that as Bojan emerged when the RFEF discovered the internet more & Youtube started to get popular, so he probably was just more publicised than others before him. From what I saw of him back then, which admittedly isn't too much (plus I had a noob football understanding), he was good to amazing, but he never impressed me more than players like Thiago, Deulofeu, Adama or as much as players like Halilovic (to name only FCB players). On top of that his performances were in the Segunda B, whereas players like Thiago all played in the Liga Adelante.

'broke every single la Masia goalscoring record at all levels' - I know that's a myth going around the internet, but I've never seen any official source backing it up.

'better than Messi was until the first team' - I suppose people say that referring to him scoring more goals than Messi in the same amount of games for the B team (10 vs 6 in 22) and not because they actually watched both play at youth level & compared them as players. Personally, while his goal tally was nice and he had a good technique, I don't think Bojan ever showed the qualities Messi had even when very young, his vision, dribbling, ball control at full speed etc.

As for why he was promoted, that was down to Rijkaard, who believed he was ready, while both Quique Costas and Pep (Barcelona B coaches back then) thought it was too early. I suppose the promotion was jusifiable as Bojan was great at the B/youth teams, but not urgent, so a 50/50 decision. Had he bulked up more and developed better mentally, it could just as well have worked out. But then Deulofeu or Thiago could have been promoted much earlier with the same arguments on their side.

And yes, the hype about him as a good talent was justifiable, since he was, but the hype about him being the next Messi or even close to him was just plain stupid.

Messi was riding the crest of the first Youtube wave as well though, so that argument isn't completely fair.

Messi was already in Barca's first team by the time Youtube blew up, I was in college round 2005/6 when it took off and can fully remember him playing for Barcelona then and watching them on SS3. Messi was being hyped at the time, everyone in my college was excited over him but it wasn't because of Youtube, it was because he was playing with Ronaldinho in the Champions League and La Liga.

Bojan didn't play for the first team until 2007. Youtube phenomenons = players like Kerlon.

Messi was riding the crest of the first Youtube wave as well though, so that argument isn't completely fair.

Youtube wasn't even online when Messi playing for the youth teams (and we're talking about 'youth players'), so it's impossible that people followed him through that when he was still a youth player. That wasn't even the point though, why the focus on Messi and Youtube? I said "he probably was just more publicised than others before him", meaning that e.g. it was much easier to get to know about and follow youth Bojan than it was to follow/watch youth Iniesta (e.g.) play. You're mixing this up with the thought that implied that the people who say this about him were "old random retards" making their opinions off fancy Youtube vids (in a judgmental, negative sense, without knowing much else). It's similar to how I said that Alex Grimaldo was more publicised than Manquillo, even though they're not far apart in terms of talent/quality of performances.



Yep, but I haven't seen any club source publish the exact numbers, so was a bit sceptibal and preferred to not use that as an argument, which is, if you go back to what I wrote, all I was saying. I didn't say it was 'implausible'. And even if we assume it's accurate, which it may be, it's not an entirely convincing argument for saying he's the "new Messi" in my eyes; there is much more to their respective games than that, which is why I was mentioning other qualities.




...as does every other player discussion unless we decide to just throw stats around, so well spotted.



To be able to say "he was better than Messi until the first team" without merely referring to the numbers that I quoted or go by "personal opinion and recollection" (which is apparently not distinguished enough for you) based of videos etc, you would need to have followed both players at the youth level. For Messi that was between 2000 and 2003 and for Bojan it was a couple of years later. Don't see what's wrong in saying that.



Why don't you just refer to what I said then? I said: "And yes, the hype about him as a good talent was justifiable, since he was, but the hype about him being the next Messi or even close to him was just plain stupid", "Bojan was great at the B/youth teams", and also "Had he bulked up more and developed better mentally, it could just as well have worked out". I also said, in the original post that you were quoting, that his "failure" was mostly down to his mentality; by your logic I would have said that his failure was mostly down to a lack of talent. I like/d Bojan, it's just the "new Messi" hype that I don't agree with, which is fair imo, so you can back off.



...that Bojan has never been on Messi's level? Yeah, most agree.

oh and



Great, we can look eye to eye then x

Youtube wasn't even online when Messi playing for the youth teams (and we're talking about 'youth players'), so it's impossible that people followed him through that when he was still a youth player. That wasn't even the point though, why the focus on Messi and Youtube? I said "he probably was just more publicised than others before him", meaning that e.g. it was much easier to get to know about and follow youth Bojan than it was to follow/watch youth Iniesta (e.g.) play. You're mixing this up with the thought that implied that the people who say this about him were "old random retards" making their opinions off fancy Youtube vids (in a judgmental, negative sense, without knowing much else). It's similar to how I said that Alex Grimaldo was more publicised than Manquillo, even though they're not far apart in terms of talent/quality of performances.



Yep, but I haven't seen any club source publish the exact numbers, so was a bit sceptibal and preferred to not use that as an argument, which is, if you go back to what I wrote, all I was saying. I didn't say it was 'implausible'. And even if we assume it's accurate, which it may be, it's not an entirely convincing argument for saying he's the "new Messi" in my eyes; there is much more to their respective games than that, which is why I was mentioning other qualities.




...as does every other player discussion unless we decide to just throw stats around, so well spotted.



To be able to say "he was better than Messi until the first team" without merely referring to the numbers that I quoted or go by "personal opinion and recollection" (which is apparently not distinguished enough for you) based of videos etc, you would need to have followed both players at the youth level. For Messi that was between 2000 and 2003 and for Bojan it was a couple of years later, so not exactly easy for non-locals to do that. Don't see what's wrong in saying that.



Why don't you just refer to what I said then? I said: "And yes, the hype about him as a good talent was justifiable, since he was, but the hype about him being the next Messi or even close to him was just plain stupid", "Bojan was great at the B/youth teams", and also "Had he bulked up more and developed better mentally, it could just as well have worked out". I also said, in the original post that you were quoting, that his "failure" was mostly down to his mentality; by your logic I would have said that his failure was mostly down to a lack of talent. I like/d Bojan, it's just the "new Messi" hype that I don't agree with, which is fair imo, so you can back off.



...that Bojan has never been on Messi's level? Yeah, most agree.

oh and



Great, we can look eye to eye then x