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Law degrees and being a lawyer is 100% overrated
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Original post by somethingunique
Wow which one? Did she have a lot of experience?
Nope.
1st from London Met and worked in a bank for 2 years before that. He went to university at the same time as me and is now for Allianz.
Original post by Sanctimonious
I didn't say you did. I specifically tackled this belief that university is becoming less important in legal recruitment. Perhaps you should re-read my response.
Where on earth did you get this?
you're not very on point when it comes to deciphering and understanding a point, are you?
Within a few sentences you have made two factual errors about my responses; while I was thorough and coherent you've failed again to properly engage with what I said.
Saying that what you're saying is 'the truth of the matter' doesn't make it more persuasive, it makes it seem like you're trying to compensate for talking nonsense. Where are there firms 'turning to' 3rd and 2:2 grads? What reason would they have to do that with a massive surplus of higher scoring graduates? Of course there are many businesses happy to hire grads from lesser institutions, but this statement has no connection to everything else you're saying.
Original post by Sanctimonious
Yes but I said less important by the day. I did not say it was not a factor. Considering you work in the legal world you're not very on point when it comes to deciphering and understanding a point, are you? The point is, many firms are now turning to 2:2 graduates and even those with 3rds. Thats the truth of the matter and whilst the top firms in the world may be very picky there are ample amount of businesses more than happy to take on graduates from less prestigious institutions.
You can believe what you like. He got a 1st at London Met and then at interview and assessment obviously did well enough to get the job. For many firms its what you do on assessment days and so on because thats when they can see you in action. Actually, very few jobs these days actually give you a job purely based on the interview alone and you often have to prove yourself - may be different for law but I know for finance and the tech industry that is the case.
You can believe what you like. He got a 1st at London Met and then at interview and assessment obviously did well enough to get the job. For many firms its what you do on assessment days and so on because thats when they can see you in action. Actually, very few jobs these days actually give you a job purely based on the interview alone and you often have to prove yourself - may be different for law but I know for finance and the tech industry that is the case.
Dat inferiority complex
Original post by Birkenhead
I didn't say you did. I specifically tackled this belief that university is becoming less important in legal recruitment. Perhaps you should re-read my response.
Where on earth did you get this?
Within a few sentences you have made two factual errors about my responses; while I was thorough and coherent you've failed again to properly engage with what I said.
Where on earth did you get this?
Within a few sentences you have made two factual errors about my responses; while I was thorough and coherent you've failed again to properly engage with what I said.
You can try to come across articulate all you like but the truth is below.
This is what you said.
'You clearly know very little about the world today if you believe that where you went to university does not have great influence over your chances in many industries.'
That implies I disagree when I don't.
Saying that what you're saying is 'the truth of the matter' doesn't make it more persuasive, it makes it seem like you're trying to compensate for talking nonsense. Where are there firms 'turning to' 3rd and 2:2 grads? What reason would they have to do that with a massive surplus of higher scoring graduates? Of course there are many businesses happy to hire grads from lesser institutions, but this statement has no connection to everything else you're saying.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/life/the-wiki-man/8953111/why-im-hiring-graduates-with-thirds-this-year/
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Arcadia Group - Retail Management “a degree in any subject”; Distribution “a degree in a numerate/analytical subject” ; Merchandising “a degree in a numerate or business-related subject”
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B&Q - Retail management programme. 2:2 gained within last 2 years
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Co-operative Group - Business Management & Finance programmes - no degree class specified
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CSC - Global information technology company. Graduate programmes in HR, Business, Finance and Consulting in addition to Technology. Applicants with a 2.2 and relevant experience encouraged.
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Enterprise Rent-a-Car– no degree class specified
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Gist - Operations, IT and HR. 2.2 minimum
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Jaguar Land Rover - Any discipline for Purchasing, HR, Marketing, Sales & Service. For Finance and IT vacancies, a relevant degree is “ideal but not essential”. Minimum 2.2
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Kerry Group - Graduate Development Programme including Finance; Commercial (Marketing and Sales); Supply Chain. 2.2 in any subject.
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Meta-Morphose - Sales training
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NHS - 2.2 minimum in any subject. Four schemes: Human Resources, Finance, Health Informatics or General Management
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Pareto - (Graduate sales careers) Any degree discipline/class
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RWE npower - Programmes include Business Analysis; Finance; Marketing; Sales; Customer Operations; Quantitative Risk. “We do not apply a minimum classification, however, your degree classification will be taken into consideration when assessing your application as a whole”.
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Siemens - Business related roles include Finance; Project Management; Operations Management and Sales. Minimum 2.2 in a relevant subject.
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Stagecoach group - degree in any discipline at 2:2 or above for the Operational programme.
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Yorkshire Water - Graduate Development Programme involving a number of structured placements. 2.2 minimum.
OK so many of the Graduate Schemes are closed to you because they require a 2:1 or above. But there are some schemes out there that are open to 2
degrees. Some examples that might help you get started:Loads even work as paralegals and then get a training contract.
Original post by ImagineCats
Isn't that the same with any other degree/career?
There was an article in the times this week about how difficult it was to get a training contract and the these "law schools" should be more discriminating about admissions - but they won't will they - it is a money making exercise
Original post by Mindless Behavior
Dat inferiority complex
For possessing a 2:1 in a STEM field? Yes, I am incredibly inferior to someone who likes to wear a wig to work and play Judge Judy IRL.
Most people who apply for Law know what they're getting into. I mean, we're hardly stupid thinking it's all glamorous. Of course it's hard work and dedication, some people actually want to go into Law because they enjoy it, find it interesting and are passionate about it. Who cares whether certain people think it's overrated? Big deal. You could say Oxford or Cambridge is 'overrated'.
Does it honestly matter?
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Does it honestly matter?
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Original post by Sanctimonious
For possessing a 2:1 in a STEM field? Yes, I am incredibly inferior to someone who likes to wear a wig to work and play Judge Judy IRL.
Maybe I was wrong actually. What I meant was:
su·pe·ri·or·i·ty com·plex
noun
an attitude of superiority that conceals actual feelings of inferiority and failure.
Original post by Mindless Behavior
Maybe I was wrong actually. What I meant was:
su·pe·ri·or·i·ty com·plex
noun
an attitude of superiority that conceals actual feelings of inferiority and failure.
su·pe·ri·or·i·ty com·plex
noun
an attitude of superiority that conceals actual feelings of inferiority and failure.
Original post by squeakysquirrel
I tell you what is over-rated - all these law degrees at rather low ranking unis. To make it as a lawyer you need to have
a) Good A Levels and we are talking at least AAA
b) Have gone to a top 10 university and got at least a 2:1 or preferably a first
c) Have done loads and loads of work experience, and lots of voluntary work - in the right areas
d) It helps if you have connections
e) To get a training contract you have to virtually prostitute yourself to these law firms
f) You have to do at least fifty applications and expect to receive rejections all along the way
There is no guarantee of success at the end of it - so it is all very overrated
a) Good A Levels and we are talking at least AAA
b) Have gone to a top 10 university and got at least a 2:1 or preferably a first
c) Have done loads and loads of work experience, and lots of voluntary work - in the right areas
d) It helps if you have connections
e) To get a training contract you have to virtually prostitute yourself to these law firms
f) You have to do at least fifty applications and expect to receive rejections all along the way
There is no guarantee of success at the end of it - so it is all very overrated
(a), (b) and (f) are not necessarily true. Also, I know numerous people with TCs at good City law firms who went to universities which were, frankly, average or worse.
Original post by Sanctimonious
For possessing a 2:1 in a STEM field? Yes, I am incredibly inferior to someone who likes to wear a wig to work and play Judge Judy IRL.
You went to ****ing London met lol, you probably could get into your degree with DDD
Original post by alevelzzz
Unless you're a top top student.
Discuss.
EDIT: Unless you go to one of the top 5 unis, chances are you're not going to land a top job paying a 'lawyer's' salary.
Also, very long hours, a lot of cases are incredibly boring.
Discuss.
EDIT: Unless you go to one of the top 5 unis, chances are you're not going to land a top job paying a 'lawyer's' salary.
Also, very long hours, a lot of cases are incredibly boring.
Disagree, at least for the solicitor route.
Beyond AAB at A-level and consistent 2.1 grades at degree level (preferably from a Russell Group university) academics are not paramount. Once that baseline is achieved, it is strong extra-curricular activities which take precedence, followed by work experience. A strong skill set outweighs stellar academics any day.
Original post by alevelzzz
You went to ****ing London met lol, you probably could get into your degree with DDD
I didn't go to London Met.
I go to Southampton University.
Original post by Sanctimonious
For possessing a 2:1 in a STEM field? Yes, I am incredibly inferior to someone who likes to wear a wig to work and play Judge Judy IRL.
You did ICT for goodness sake...
Original post by Birkenhead
You did ICT for goodness sake...
Computer Science != ICT.
Shows how much you know.
Original post by squeakysquirrel
I tell you what is over-rated - all these law degrees at rather low ranking unis. To make it as a lawyer you need to have
a) Good A Levels and we are talking at least AAA
b) Have gone to a top 10 university and got at least a 2:1 or preferably a first
c) Have done loads and loads of work experience, and lots of voluntary work - in the right areas
d) It helps if you have connections
e) To get a training contract you have to virtually prostitute yourself to these law firms
f) You have to do at least fifty applications and expect to receive rejections all along the way
There is no guarantee of success at the end of it - so it is all very overrated
a) Good A Levels and we are talking at least AAA
b) Have gone to a top 10 university and got at least a 2:1 or preferably a first
c) Have done loads and loads of work experience, and lots of voluntary work - in the right areas
d) It helps if you have connections
e) To get a training contract you have to virtually prostitute yourself to these law firms
f) You have to do at least fifty applications and expect to receive rejections all along the way
There is no guarantee of success at the end of it - so it is all very overrated
Yes, but, as many people go into law without the intention of being a lawyer, regardless of the uni a 2.1 or better in law looks brilliant on any CV, whatever you decide to go into. (Generally.)
Original post by Meeka96
My friend is going to study law , and she got terrible grades , including U in physics, she is going to one of the bottom unis. But still come on , that is just idiotic how people are able to get into such a prestigious couses with such a low grades.
Law isn't a prestigious course anymore; its the university that makes it prestigious.
The only courses that are prestigious regardless of institution are medicine dentistry and veterinary medicine.
Original post by alevelzzz
Unless you're a top top student.
Discuss.
EDIT: Unless you go to one of the top 5 unis, chances are you're not going to land a top job paying a 'lawyer's' salary.
Also, very long hours, a lot of cases are incredibly boring.
Discuss.
EDIT: Unless you go to one of the top 5 unis, chances are you're not going to land a top job paying a 'lawyer's' salary.
Also, very long hours, a lot of cases are incredibly boring.
I didn't go to a "top 5" uni- although it was a Red Brick/Russell Group uni and lots of my friends now have TC's at Magic Circle Law Firms and a couple even have pupillage! So I disagree with your comment. Also it's subjective- even if you aren't a "top top student" (whatever that means) if you want to work in a highstreet firm, study law to get into the police/politics/other careers or simply just do it because its prestigious then no, law isn't overrated- even at some lesser unis.
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- University: Law/international relations
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