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Are Medicine, Dentistry and Vet Med the only courses that matter?

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Original post by DErasmus
You would just learn medicine or some **** on the side, not that difficult and quite frankly a degree in medicine is pointless. It just means that you are incapable of learning it yourself.


Butt hurt much?
Reply 81
Avatar for Mansun
Mansun
8
Original post by alevelzzz
Im relatively sure all medical graduates get a job...
Student numbers are controlled for medicine/dentistry/vetmed.


Medicine is the only one of the three which has a big oversupply of medical graduates, for which there are not enough jobs. Pharmacy is also heading down that road now, as they too opened lots of new schools in the UK. Same problem with physiotherapists, far too many trained and some have had to stack shelves before they get a proper job. I blame it mostly on Labour for wasting NHS resources on oversupply of medical graduates to make them look good, ''Look we have too many, not too few, doctors under a Labour government'' etc. Bloody fools.
Original post by Charlizarddd
Butt hurt much?


Considering all I did was replace medicine with languages i'd say it was you who was butthurt.
Perhaps because you don't have the intellect to study a STEM course that you cannot fathom to see that it was you who replied to me.
Original post by Mansun
Not all medical graduates will become doctors. Some will go into medical research, where prospects are very good as many older professors are retiring, and not that many taking up research.

Why would you train for that long as a doctor.......... then to go into ressearch and never use all those years training as a doctor?
You could study any sciene degree and then go into medical ressearch.
Also many older professors are retiring in every field, so what's your point?
Original post by Mansun
I heard several years back medical graduates were being headhunted by City firms. But have they ever become a CEO at a top firm? There are definitely too many medical graduates these days, and not enough jobs to go straight into. 66% of new medical graduates don't get a job for a good while.


I'd like to think that the interview process weeded out the money grubbing type. The type that goes to study medicine is usually different from the type that goes to study business. Medicine tends to attract the smart but introverted types who wouldn't make it in business anyways.

This may be a while back but Charles Tupper was a medical grad and he became PM of Canada.

Hastings Banda was a medical grad and became the 1st PM of Malawi.

Samuel L Mitchell, George Logan and Henry Latimer all medical grads were US Senators.

Thomas Tudor Tucker, a medical grad and presidential physician was the longest serving US Treasury Secretary.

I'm already omitting a number of lesser political titles in this list but there are more.

The biotech firm Biogen worth 9.6 billion was founded by a medical prof.

The firm Jardine Matheson with revenue of 57.3 billion was also founded by a medical grad

The Medical Research Council CEO is Sir John Savill who is currently a head of medicine.

I got these all of these from Edinburgh Medical School alone, so there are bound to be countless more.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Edinburgh_Medical_School

I know that most of these are "long dead alumni" but then again I refer to my 1st point, that medicine doesn't attract the type that want to be CEOs.
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 86
Avatar for Mansun
Mansun
8
Original post by Temporality
Why would you train for that long as a doctor.......... then to go into ressearch and never use all those years training as a doctor?
You could study any sciene degree and then go into medical ressearch.
Also many older professors are retiring in every field, so what's your point?


If you want to become a professor in Medicine to teach medical students, you must be a medicine graduate first with clinical training. A biomedical science graduate cannot take up this role. The point is that because the process in becoming a lecturer to teach medical students is a long one and not appealing to the masses, it is easier for those to get there quicker if they take up the option. I think this was the masterplan for training too many graduates in the first place.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by ChickenMadness
Well i meant in terms of becoming a doctor tbh. Getting difficult in the UK atm with all the NHS cuts.

It's a lot easier for dentists because most are private.


No they're not, you have no idea what you're talking about.
Original post by Mansun
If you want to become a professor in Medicine to teach medical students, you must be a medicine graduate first with clinical training. A biomedical science graduate cannot take up this role. The point is that because the process in becoming a lecturer to teach medical students is a long one and not appealing to the masses, it is easier for those to get there quicker if they take up the option. I think this was the masterplan for training too many graduates in the first place.


That is 100% not true. A great number of our professors did not study medicine. Many have biomedical PhDs.
Reply 89
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Mansun
8
Original post by Okorange
That is 100% not true. A great number of our professors did not study medicine. Many have biomedical PhDs.


That is exactly what I heard several years back, and universities don't want science graduates from other disciplines teaching medicine when they aren't even medically/clinically trained, it is lunacy to have a medical school with no medical doctors teaching the degree. I didn't say they will not have SOME biomedical trained graduates teaching the course (medicine involves biochemistry, genetics etc), but in the key areas where medical training is essential, it will be a doctor with a PhD who does the teaching, along with Consultant doctors.

Can you name me one Professor of Medicine who was not medically and clinically trained? Given that Medicine branches out with biomedical sciences, biochemistry, genetics etc I think you are getting confused and mixing the appointments up. A Biomedical PhD cannot be a professor of Cardiovascular Medicine, for example.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Mansun
That is exactly what I heard several years back, and universities don't want science graduates from other disciplines teaching medicine when they aren't even medically/clinically trained, it is lunacy to have a medical school with no medical doctors teaching the degree. I didn't say they will not have SOME biomedical trained graduates teaching the course (medicine involves biochemistry, genetics etc), but in the key areas where medical training is essential, it will be a doctor with a PhD who does the teaching, along with Consultant doctors.

Can you name me one Professor of Medicine who was not medically and clinically trained?


I guess its not that stupid for SOME preclinical stuff. Although, It'd be as ridiculous as somebody without a dentistry degree teaching dentistry lol
Original post by Mansun
That is exactly what I heard several years back, and universities don't want science graduates from other disciplines teaching medicine when they aren't even medically/clinically trained, it is lunacy to have a medical school with no medical doctors teaching the degree. I didn't say they will not have SOME biomedical trained graduates teaching the course (medicine involves biochemistry, genetics etc), but in the key areas where medical training is essential, it will be a doctor with a PhD who does the teaching, along with Consultant doctors.

Can you name me one Professor of Medicine who was not medically and clinically trained?


Apologies, didn't read your post fully. You mentioned professor of medicine. I read it as medics don't have any profs who are PhDs only. Yes, you will never be a professor of medicine without at least having done a MB ChB or MBBS, most will have a MD or PhD in addition.

Medics will tend to encounter more and more physician-scientists in their clinical years.
Reply 92
Avatar for Mansun
Mansun
8
Original post by alevelzzz
I guess its not that stupid for SOME preclinical stuff. Although, It'd be as ridiculous as somebody without a dentistry degree teaching dentistry lol


I just edited my answer above, but I think you get what I mean. The big appointments like Professor of Forensic Medicine, Professor of Cardiovascular Medicine etc are always medically/clinically trained doctors who have earned a PhD and substantial research experience.

PS I am not a doctor, but I do work in medical research, currently doing my second MSc with UCL.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Mansun
If you want to become a professor in Medicine to teach medical students, you must be a medicine graduate first with clinical training. A biomedical science graduate cannot take up this role. The point is that because the process in becoming a lecturer to teach medical students is a long one and not appealing to the masses, it is easier for those to get there quicker if they take up the option. I think this was the masterplan for training too many graduates in the first place.


To be honest with you a lot (but not all) of the skills you need to be a great teacher/lecturer are the same as those you need to be a doctor, and I imagine that a lot of doctors who are really interested in what they are doing and genuinely care about it would also feel passionate about teaching the subject maybe at the same time as their practice or at some point in their careers as doctors anyway. Those are the kind of medical students and doctors I would expect to end up in medical lecturing.

When it comes to the medical ressearch thing, I still don't think people who want to go into medical ressearch should go through a medical degree because it's of no relevance to them. I was talking about was people who have hardly any of the necessary skills to be doctors and are in it for all the wrong reasons - quite often these would make bad lecturers and great doctors alike - though they may make great ressearchers. I'm talking about either those types who don't know or care about how to relate to people but are great in a lab, or I'm talking about people whose heart isn't in being a doctor but scientific (be it medical) ressearch or equally those smarmy types that get into medical school and aren't suited to it. Quite often these people could do a Physics, Chemistry or Biology degree and then go into medically related ressearch.
Reply 94
Avatar for Mansun
Mansun
8
Original post by Okorange
Apologies, didn't read your post fully. You mentioned professor of medicine. I read it as medics don't have any profs who are PhDs only. Yes, you will never be a professor of medicine without at least having done a MB ChB or MBBS, most will have a MD or PhD in addition.

Medics will tend to encounter more and more physician-scientists in their clinical years.


There aren't that many medical graduates coming forward to take on a career in medical research and aim to be a Professor in Medicine, which is about as good as being a Consultant Doctor, so well worth aiming for. The problem is it takes ages to get a good salary. Most just want to be a GP and get the easy 80-90k money asap. I think you get 10 times more status as a Professor of Medicine though, one for the really gifted perhaps.
Original post by Mansun
There aren't that many medical graduates coming forward to take on a career in medical research and aim to be a Professor in Medicine, which is about as good as being a Consultant Doctor, so well worth aiming for. The problem is it takes ages to get a good salary. Most just want to be a GP and get the easy 80-90k money asap.


And the single most ignorant comment of the day goes toooooooo

You do realise there is a shortage of medical graduates wanting to going into GP training? Please don't speak on matters you have absolutely NO knowledge on...
Every train, plane, car or bus you've ever used was designed by an engineer.

If you every encounter legal issues, you''l rquire the services of a lawyer.

Cures to cancer are not found by people with medical degrees.

Veterinarians may not have the political knowledge require to run the country.

CEOs of top firms probably did not study medicine, dentistry of vet med.

To put it simply, not medicine, dentistry and vet med are NOT the only courses that matter.
Reply 97
Avatar for Mansun
Mansun
8
Original post by alevelzzz
And the single most ignorant comment of the day goes toooooooo

You do realise there is a shortage of medical graduates wanting to going into GP training? Please don't speak on matters you have absolutely NO knowledge on...


I didn't mean to cause offence. Having got family and friends who work in the profession, that is what I often hear. They try hospital medicine, and find the hours and conditions don't suit them. They do find life as a GP easier and better paid.

I am entitled to express valid opinions, it isn't your thread, and you don't make the rules. I think you should apologise for being arrogant.
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 98
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em.d_4
17
Original post by Marky Mark
HELP.


:tongue:


Clearly not... Society would be a bit of a mess if we trained 7000 doctors, a year a few hundred vets, and a few thousand dentists and everyone else did jack ****!
Most degrees have relevance and a place in society. There are one or two which I question the need for a degree in (the jobs have relevance but a 3 year degree seems wasteful) eg physical theater or golf course management you have to really wonder with those...

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Original post by Mansun
I didn't mean to cause offence. Having got family and friends who work in the profession, that is what I often hear. They try hospital medicine, and find the hours and conditions don't suit them. They do find life as a GP easier and better paid.


Im not offended, Im applying for dentistry.
But Im telling you, right now, categorically - GP is NOT a desired specialism for the majority of medicine graduates.
As I said, there is a shortage of people going for GP training right now in medicine.

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