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Mental Health Support Society Mk XIV

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I have literally spent hours today sitting on my bed. It took me until 16:00 to get off and eat something, despite being really hungry. If my sister hadn't insisted we go for lunch, I don't know if I would have eaten today. :s-smilie: I don't know why it is so hard to do something simple like get up and feed myself. It's scary that my lack of motivation was much greater than my hunger after almost 24 hours with no food. :sad:
Original post by Porridge510
Hate where I live, wish I could move to another town. :frown:


Me and you both, brother.

Hell, I just wish I didn't live with my mother. She really is impossible but it makes a little easier to hold certain facts back from her. Like I'm going up to my university town on Saturday for 2 weeks for resits. On the one hand, it'll be nice to get away from her. On the other, resits. And other stuff. I'm not really allowed to operate like a real adult under her roof.
Original post by alexs2602
Me and you both, brother.

Hell, I just wish I didn't live with my mother. She really is impossible but it makes a little easier to hold certain facts back from her. Like I'm going up to my university town on Saturday for 2 weeks for resits. On the one hand, it'll be nice to get away from her. On the other, resits. And other stuff. I'm not really allowed to operate like a real adult under her roof.



I'm so sorry to hear that, I hope things improve soon. I'm always here if you want to chat. :smile:
I feel like I'd be so much happier if I moved to another town/city. I know I'd still have bad health and it wouldn't help that, but i don't want to move for health reasons I just hate where i live so much. It's always busy and loud.
Original post by Star-girl
:jumphug:

Is there anything we can do to cheer you up?


thanks for the offer but I don't think so. Just ranting really; it's been 8 years now and things are still troublesome - it's the same pattern over and over. I take meds, the voices quieten then gradually get louder and louder so my psychiatrist increases the dose and the cycle repeats. I'm on two antipsychotics at pretty high doses so there is no longer much room for maneuvering. :frown:
Original post by Sabertooth
thanks for the offer but I don't think so. Just ranting really; it's been 8 years now and things are still troublesome - it's the same pattern over and over. I take meds, the voices quieten then gradually get louder and louder so my psychiatrist increases the dose and the cycle repeats. I'm on two antipsychotics at pretty high doses so there is no longer much room for maneuvering. :frown:


:frown: I hope you feel better soon. Did the chat last night at least cheer you up a bit?
Original post by Star-girl
:frown: I hope you feel better soon. Did the chat last night at least cheer you up a bit?


Yeah it did actually, took my mind off things for a few hours. :smile:


How're you doing today?
Original post by Sabertooth
Yeah it did actually, took my mind off things for a few hours. :smile:


How're you doing today?


Good. :smile:

Up and down as usual. I don't understand how I can go from one extreme of emotion to the other in such a short space of time. I can be really excited and happy and then all of that is gone in an instant and replaced by the gloominess I am feeling now. It's bad because when I feel good, I get a false sense of security like I don't have any MH issues at all or that they are all gone and then I come crashing back down to reality.

I am usually either really happy or really unhappy and I wish it was a bit more regulated.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Star-girl
Good. :smile:

Up and down as usual. I don't understand how I can go from one extreme of emotion to the other in such a short space of time. I can be really excited and happy and then all of that is gone in an instant and replaced by the gloominess I am feeling now. It's bad because when I feel good, I get a false sense of security like I don't have any MH issues at all or that they are all gone and then I come crashing back down to reality.

I am usually either really happy or really unhappy and I wish it was a bit more regulated.


I think that's quite common with mental health conditions. I know quite a few times in the past I've had the false sense of security you mention but then MH issues come back and I go crashing down again. So yeah, you're not alone with that. Although I'm afraid I don't really know how to help. Have you told this to your doctor?
Original post by Sabertooth
Spent most of the day in bed again. When I'm not sleeping I'm listening to the voices being *******s scaring me. I'm fed up of this, I really really am. Seeing my psychiatrist on friday and I already know how things are gonna go down - I'll explain how ****ty I feel, she'll apologize that I feel so bad and will then increase my meds. I know there isn't anything else reasonable she can do but I hate this pattern. Why can't they **** off and stay off?


Has any non-medication stuff worked for you at all in the past? What with it being 8 years, i guess you've tried more or less everything. Have any of the things you've tried attempted to confront the voices, as opposed to making them go away? I may be speaking out my arse here, just trying to be helpful, somehow.

------

Had the first bath for a long time, don't have one at my normal place but at my mum's currently. It was so hot i thought i was gonna fall asleep/pass out! :fan: Hands were shaky and legs were giddy when i got out x] So worth it though.

Yes I do shower on a regular basis, i'm not that dirty :tongue: A bath is a luxury for me.
Original post by Sabertooth
I think that's quite common with mental health conditions. I know quite a few times in the past I've had the false sense of security you mention but then MH issues come back and I go crashing down again. So yeah, you're not alone with that. Although I'm afraid I don't really know how to help. Have you told this to your doctor?


I am on holiday but I will when I get back. I am sick of this and clearly my efforts at "fixing myself" have so far been not as effective as I had hoped - I've only managed to get worse over the years and there is a limit to how much self-help you can do. I am so crap at asking for help though and that is what got me in such a mess. :colonhash: :colonhash: :colonhash: :colonhash: :colonhash: :colonhash:
Original post by Star-girl
People like that aren't real friends. You are a lovely person, Socks and you will meet people deserving of your company. :hugs:



:jumphug:

Is there anything we can do to cheer you up?


Thanks :hugs: everyone here is so nice to me and I don't deserve it :/


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It is so much effort to get off my bed and change into my pyjamas. Should I even bother? What's the point - will I even sleep? I don't even feel directly tired even though I really should be exhausted by now. :nothing: I had good news today and although it cheered me up a bit, I still feel dull. I want to cry and I want to have a shower and/or a cup of tea but I can't make myself get up and my feelings don't make any sense. :nothing:
Original post by Odd socks
Thanks :hugs: everyone here is so nice to me and I don't deserve it :/


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You are welcome. :hugs: You do deserve it - you are supportive of us too. :hugs:
Sorry for the ranting. I feel so grumpy.
Original post by lauraaaaa
hahah no don't stop! I know! Whenever I'm sending an email to a teacher, i have to refrain from ':smile: xx' :lol: and haha nah I'm strictly a black pen person! I don't like much colour either, always looks messy to me!
hahaha I've only ever reversed out of the drive once! It went fine mind...still its a bit dodgy reversing out my drive because I'm right on the corner so you have to be super careful when watching for people walking round and stuff, it's always a bit scary, so usually my mom pulls it off the drive :tongue:
yes! I'm getting ready to go out as we speak! I'm SO ready for this....i can see it ending in being sick (eeeeh) but it almost seems worth it rn :redface: I've had a good week so I'm going out with a bang hahah. I'm calling it 'uni prep' :wink:
yeah i can't wait to start uni now! Ooh, my dads job is moving to warwick next year so he might be on campus too :tongue: and aw, well spend extra time with him now then :smile:
ooh i like the perks of being a wallflower! haven't seen it in a while though. Emma watson hnnnnnng, i would! :colondollar: id probably get a ready meal, i can't cook hahah I'm gonna die at uni!
I'm just getting ready to go out but I'm in a super good mood at the moment! I'm hoping tonight will be a good night :biggrin: glad you're feeling well! any plans for tomorrow? :smile:

Haha, I'm glad I'm not the only one then :tongue: (Though I don't use x's :pierre:) But pretty colours!!! :eek:
Ah fair enough :redface: Our road's quite quiet, so not too much trouble with people, just confusingness with reversing :tongue: Parking against the side of the road today - turned the car on and off/getting in and out what must've been at least 5 times :lol:
I'm really sorry it wasn't great :frown: :hugs: Hope you've had lots of you-time today :redface:
Oh cool! Warwick's the place to be :wink: :biggrin: and glad you're looking forward to it :smile: I really liked the look of york/also put it down as one of my options! :smile: Yeah will try to :redface: thanks
Was so good!!!! :love: Was tempted to watch it again tonight, but I think I'm too tired :tongue: Eyelid slightly twitching as I type! Maybe tomorrow. Haha, me too :lol: :teehee: :colondollar: :hide: Yeah got some ready meals for the next few days :smile:
Haven't done much today, woke up at 1pm (:eek:) and then just lazed a bit/got the house in a tidy-ish state, and then this afternoon/evening been talking to Auntie + Co.
I'll tell you what was shocked at my cousin though - there was a 1p on my floor and he just picks it up and says "I found some money!" and then we walk round to the next room (doing a slight tour when they arrived) - I ask for it back because, even if it's only 1p, that's just not what you do if you find money in someone's house - and it takes many asks/a parent behind him for him to give it back :unimpressed: Maybe I'm being unfair, I was just shocked that he'd take money from someone's house like that so guilt-free/self-justified "well I found it" I don't know... :colondollar: :s-smilie:

Original post by jft18
Especially if it's a movie with Jack Black in it :yep:

Umm, I dunno really - I kinda feel like I'm losing control of everything and things are falling apart again. Really struggling today :frown:
Nothing major though, I'll be fine.

Hope you're doing okay, and that you've had a good day :smile:

:hugs:

Which one? :biggrin: I haven't watched a ton - just nacho libre and school of rock I think :smile:

:frown: I hope yesterday/today have been okay for you :console: If you're sure - do see your GP if you think things are getting much worse, and also here if you ever need to vent/need someone to PM :redface:

Thanks :smile: been okay today I think, had plenty to do - this evening's a bit tired-y/bored, but oh well :redface: :hugs:

Original post by IDukem
It brightened up, the sunset was awesome and went for a run. I don't fully on go "race" mode or whatever, I go at my own pace and sometimes to the beat of the song if it fits.
I'm doing okay recently thanks and nooooo I've not made that many plans cause I'm going to my home-town Uni (well...one of them) so I don't need accommodation plans etc haha. I got some pens, a notepad and ambition :teehee: How are you? :smile:

Yays :biggrin: I wish I could run :colondollar: Yeah that's the problem with music when I'm walking :tongue: never sure whether to fit strides to the beat or not :lol: It's either I end up walking with stupidly slow strides or stupidly quick strides :tongue:
aaah, okay :biggrin: That makes things a lot less stressful then I guess :smile: (and cheaper! :colondollar:)
Looking forward to it? :smile: What are you studying? (if you don't mind me asking - completely fine if you ignore it :redface: :colondollar: :smile:)
I'm okay thanks - tired, so difficult to tell mood - but I think I'm okay :redface: Had a really fun night last night with scrabble and such, and an awesome film, and diary writing :smile:

Original post by Jean-Luc Picard
thanks, today's been okay so far thankfully, went to my mums which helped this afternoon :smile:

very, hopefully be able to go next year though, they have like a Spring one as well, plus other stuff so isn't the end of the world just a bummer tbh. definitely :biggrin: yeah was good, had a cuppa and some food and caught up with her :smile:

:hugs: hope you feel better soon, you got plans after the summer or?

Hope having gf's brothers been okay today too :smile: Glad the day with mum was good!
Thanks :redface: Had a great evening yesterday so that was nice - not really, got camping with friends in a couple of weeks, then Uni. After Summer I don't know :s-smilie:

Original post by Porridge510
Sorry had to delete the rest of your replies because I kept getting confused.
The appointment was great. My doctor was like making jokes, funny ones. Like, you have to give your sleep to the sleep god and these new meds will make you cool as a cucumber.
Thank you so much :hugs: I'm on citalopram and this other one beginning with p. I don't know what it is. I have looked at it, but its a tricky name. Oh its propanol. My boyfriend told me to google it because he remembered the name just now.
don't be sorry, its not your fault! :smile:
Thank you, it made me happy. because i feel like theyre giving me a chance. I didn't get on the A level online course as they told me to try a full time course at college. But as my health is getting worse, i feel really uncomfortable and don't feel ready to go out and go to college most days.
Yes, we skype all the time when hes not with me. :smile: it'll make me sad seeing him over a computer screen again though. because we've been together all summer.
Chips with salt and vinegar or grounded pepper. Yum yum. :biggrin:
I hope you feel better soon, if you ever feel lonely ill always be here if you want to chat. :smile: Have a nice dinner. :smile:

That's okay! Sorry that this'll probably be long too :colondollar: Feel free to just delete all of it :redface:
Haha, I don't think I could see mine making jokes at all :tongue: :lol: Cool as a cucumber indeed :yep: :biggrin: I want your doctor :tongue:
Ah :smile: I think I remember seeing something about propanol as a drug yeah - I hope they work well for you :smile:
Yeah definitely! and well done again on the english course! And good luck for clearing things :woo: Sounds really encouraging and awesome :biggrin:
That's nice - Glad you've had a good summer together :smile:
Just salt for me - and ketchup :biggrin: I can't really stand vinegar I'm afraid :tongue: :colondollar:
Thanks :smile: You too if you ever need a chat :yep: :hugs:

Original post by Porridge510
I don't know if it quoted but i did reply. I didn't want you to think i was ignoring you or anything. x

Haha thanks yeah I saw it :smile: :redface:

Original post by DebkoX
Thank you, Phil.
I don't really tell anyone, partly because no one really cares :smile: whenever I do open up, no one can find the right words so its a case of me having to handle it. I'm mostly here because thankfully my low-times are very common, but very minor. Just typical teenage sadness is all. I do admit, I have a deep desire to feel loved by someone other than family but that's nothing.

I'm sure people would care! :redface: I mean I'm just a stranger on the internet and I care! :eek: I guess can be difficult to respond sometimes - I never know what to say that's helpful myself :s-smilie: But I guess partly it can just be quite helpful just to talk to someone about things that are a-happening/how you are - even if they can't really say anything to help? I've found it sort of therapeutic/cathartic to do so, anyway :redface:
I guess I'm quite similar with that - though I also know that it's quite easy to downplay how things affect your life? Can be difficult to distinguish/tell when the low mood/depression-ness is affecting stuff. I don't know :s-smilie:
If your low moods are very common - then not typical teenage sadness at all :redface: :dontknow:
Sorry, I'm telling you off lots in this reply :tongue: But it's not nothing - it's important, and I really hope you feel better soon :hugs: Are you at school/Uni - could you see a counsellor to talk things over? I found it quite helpful last term, even if just a bit.

Original post by furryface12
Star Trek is yet another series (?) I've never seen, I need to watch these! Yeah, can be annoying with shops closing, always seems to be when we run out of things too! Charity shops can be good, on the other hand they can be just full of scary old women that seem to think you're just there to steal everything though- need to work out which are which!

Might go and have a look tomorrow anyway and see if there are many people about, not been in ages so could be worth a try :smile: Hopefully having to walk all the way round the edge of the (very big!) field will have put some people off.

It is :yep: Although I don't really remember much of it, just that it seemed good at the time despite me having to keep asking the others what was going on :colondollar:

Yeah hopefully retakes should sort it, will have to reapply this year although I don't know where, might just apply to the same choices again although that seems a bit of a waste :redface: Need to think about that!

I know what you mean! You could just have the parent company but not the annoying bits? Probably a good plan about the escapey bits for when other people are with you though, could be helpful :tongue:

Mood's been a bit more level today, although a lot more down than up if that makes sense. I need to go see GP but I hate going, and last time I saw this horrible scary one instead who was completely useless so that's kind of out me off even more :frown: I'm away next week so will go when I'm back if things haven't improved- probably can't get there before Thursday anyway :s-smilie:

Yeah it's a TV series, with films too - The Next Generation is the best series (imo) and has Jean Luc Picard (Patrick Stewart) :biggrin: (like Jean Luc Picard on here/MHSS :tongue: :biggrin:) I'm not sure it's necessarily a necessity - if you like sci-fi stuff/star wars and things then I guess I'd recommend it though :smile:

Exactly! The one time at Uni you always needed something was a sunday after 4pm - the one time the 24 hour Tesco was closed :tongue: :lol: I always get scared that shopkeepers/people will think I'm shoplifting :colondollar: Never sure how to make it clear I'm not - to make eye contact with them? Say bye? Dawdle a bit on the shop entrance so that you're not just rushing away suspiciously? (Yes I do this :colondollar:)

Were there people there?! :eek:

Haha :colondollar: Tbh I can't remember much of it :tongue: I remember us getting a free "making of" VHS in Safeways or something when I was younger - watched it lots of times as we didn't have many videos :redface:

Ah yeah :smile: I suppose if you applied to anywhere below ABC last time then you needn't include them this time round maybe? (Apply to warwick! :tongue: We have a whole Warwick TSR MHSS crew we discovered last night :teehee: (Even if some of them aren't here any more/one is only just coming...!))

That would be perfect :tongue: Yes :redface: Been quite nice having them today though sort of :smile: Though also when I spend time with them feel as though I'm intruding on their holiday a bit :s-smilie: Plus not really in touch/similar to Auntie/her friend enough to hang with them, nor my cousin/his friend :colondollar: Will probably keep to myself more now that they've settled in/now that I don't need to show them where everything is :redface: :smile:

Sorry you've been more down than up :frown: :hugs: Oh no :/ Can you go back to your regular one now though? :s-smilie: oo hope you have fun :smile: and I hope that things will have improved too :redface:

Original post by Meaty_man

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Original post by samba
Good evening that was, cheers guys :smile:

Indeed :yep: :woo: Thanks Samba + Everyone :smile:

Original post by Jean-Luc Picard
decided I am just gonna flat out ask my GP for a change of meds or to stop them altogether, they aren't helping my mood anymore at all and looking up the side effects online I am now just convinced they are actually just making me other things worse (my vision/balance/vertigo/headaches, all can be ****ing side effects of it so wtf)

I guess all meds will be similar or something but seriously this is just useless, been on max dose of Venlafaxine for nearly two years now and I am pretty sure my mood improving for a while had nothing to do with it now, so just need to stop with them.

found my diazepam as well so gonna take one of them later, my girlfriends brother is visiting and am basically ****ting myself that he won't like me or something :/

also my GP said I could take them everyday and I basically only take them when I am really anxious about something, maybe if I just ask him if I can take them more often and just stop the Venlafaxine? I don't think meds are gonna solve my depression if they all do the same thing as the ones I've had and that anyway.

need to call LIFT as well for my therapy with them, hoping to get that and also my social worker is gonna see about me getting therapy through them which would be someone who would do home visits (which helps cause with my anxiety going out all the way to the hospital they work at would be a nightmare as is like 3 buses!) and they work with people with aspbergers so hopefully would like understand that as well, kinda hoping the two combined might help me anyway.

don't really know why I chose to write this at 6am but hey-ho :/



Original post by Star-girl
You too! I am used to getting by on very little sleep (not necessarily well though). :tongue:

We outlasted everyone else and got up the earliest. :colone:

:lol: What time were you guys up to?! I went to sleep at 5 and got up at 1pm :eek: :tongue:
Glad your sister helped with food-ness, can understand you staying in bed after being up so late :colondollar: Hope tomorrow's better :hugs:

No need to apologise for the rant btw! I'm sorry today's been rubbish/still feeling rubbish :frown: Perhaps get into pyjamas and watch something for a bit, til you're more sleepy? I think a shower can help you feel sleepy too possibly (?)

Original post by thatsthebadger93
Hey how is everyone? I'm currently on a section 3 in hospital so it's going well :P Best advice I've been given so far is before doing anything to yourself draw up a pros and cons list and be honest with yourself when you write it, I've been finding it kinda helpful so far :smile:

Hey :smile: Sorry to hear you're in hospital, but hope it's helping sort of and not too bad? :hugs:
I think I need to make more pro/con lists :redface: I think that's part of CBT possibly? I remember seeing it in a book but I never got round to actually reading it :colondollar: (was a DIY CBT book thing)
Sending :hugs:!

Original post by Meaty_man
Interviews are all about lying through your teeth anyway, pretending to be something you're not. Even when they say "i want you to be honest", it's a trick question imo. You'll be ok :hugs:

:eek: This scares me a bit :s-smilie: I'm not sure I can really lie in an interview or anything :s-smilie: Is this what all interviews will be like? I think I'd rather be actually honest/be modest, though also try and be honest/not sell myself short. Hmm. Scary though :s-smilie:

Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd
My dad handed me a letter he found for me yesterday - turns out that after I missed last week's CBT, they had rescheduled it for today :eek: Thank goodness I saw it in time!

Went for the session and set 3 goals. We're going to discuss therapy options more next week but for the moment it looks like I'll be having 6 weeks of ACT (Acceptance and Commitment Therapy), with the chance of more sessions afterwards if I feel it is helping :h:

That's lucky! :eek:
Glad it was helpful :smile: :hugs:

Original post by lauraaaaa
so i find out that I'm the only person in my school to get an A* in psychology :') it seems a small thing to be proud of, and kinda big headed, but it makes me feel good :biggrin: my teacher is being too nice to me!

:woo: Go Laura! :awesome:

Original post by Meaty_man
It's quite common for us to tie certain events to certain songs. A band i listened to when i had a car accident, i can't listen to anymore because it always reminds me of that accident...Thankfully they weren't a fave band of mine :tongue:

I even associate some memories with certain smells; certain perfumes or cologne, food, etc.

Do this a lot :redface: Got a fair few albums/songs I can just associate with periods of life, particularly the last year and a half, to be honest :colondollar: I also have the problem of playing sad music when I'm low :tongue: Partly just because pretty much all of my favourite music is melancholic :colondollar:

Never had the smell thing :eek: (I don't think? :holmes:) That's cool though :biggrin:

Glad the bath was good :biggrin: I never really like them unless there's lots of nice hot water :redface: Haven't had one in ages either :eek: Yeah of course you shower - We believe you :wink: :tongue: :ninja:

Original post by jft18
Didn't make it to my appointment again today, oops. :s-smilie:

:console: Can you make another one for soon? :smile:
Original post by PandaWho
Feel kinda numb to the fact that tomorrow is the last time ill see my brother for another year.
Kinda numb to alot of things at the moment

:hugs: Hope it's been nice having him round :smile: Have a great day tomorrow! then can have a rest too :redface:

Original post by Sabertooth
Spent most of the day in bed again. When I'm not sleeping I'm listening to the voices being *******s scaring me. I'm fed up of this, I really really am. Seeing my psychiatrist on friday and I already know how things are gonna go down - I'll explain how ****ty I feel, she'll apologize that I feel so bad and will then increase my meds. I know there isn't anything else reasonable she can do but I hate this pattern. Why can't they **** off and stay off?

Sorry voices are being rubbish at the moment :frown: Not sure what to say or suggest, but :hugs:

(Also - found out today that jerma a tf2 youtuber has had depression in the past :redface: Sorry I know that that isn't really news :tongue: I just find it sorta sobering when someone you know (well, I don't know him..) has had stuff like that in the past :s-smilie:) (or I'm just being super-tf2-fanboy or something here.... :hide: :getmecoat:)



-------------------------------------


Had a fantastic evening yesterday :redface: Watched a great film, wrote in diary, and had fun times on chat/with scrabble with MHSS peeps :ahee:
Today's been more relaxed/slow, but feeling more comfortable with Auntie and people here definitely :redface: Not sure what to do tomorrow, might go to cinema or something :smile:
Sounds as though they're going to be having early starts/before 10-11ish (my wake up time), so won't be getting breakfast/getting in their way or anything :redface:
Original post by purple-duck


:lol: What time were you guys up to?! I went to sleep at 5 and got up at 1pm :eek: :tongue:
Glad your sister helped with food-ness, can understand you staying in bed after being up so late :colondollar: Hope tomorrow's better :hugs:

No need to apologise for the rant btw! I'm sorry today's been rubbish/still feeling rubbish :frown: Perhaps get into pyjamas and watch something for a bit, til you're more sleepy? I think a shower can help you feel sleepy too possibly (?)


Went to sleep at ~06:00 and got up at 09:30. I wasn't in bed, I was on my bed. I hope tomorrow's better too. :smile:

OK. I have managed to go from being on the bed to kneeling besides the bed. I am half way to getting off the bed. I will put on some relaxing music. I don't think I am going to make it to the shower.
Original post by purple-duck


Had a fantastic evening yesterday :redface: Watched a great film, wrote in diary, and had fun times on chat/with scrabble with MHSS peeps :ahee:
Today's been more relaxed/slow, but feeling more comfortable with Auntie and people here definitely :redface: Not sure what to do tomorrow, might go to cinema or something :smile:
Sounds as though they're going to be having early starts/before 10-11ish (my wake up time), so won't be getting breakfast/getting in their way or anything :redface:


That's really great! I enjoyed the scrabble/chat too! :ahee: I made a big mistake not bringing my diary with me on holiday and now I have to subject you guys to my ranting. I didn't realise how useful it is for destressing until I didn't have it. :s-smilie:
Seeing a new doctor tomorrow, kinda scared. I need to ask about a letter for mitigating circumstances, something to help with anxiety, and stuff for my eczema.

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Boring update: I finally got changed into my pyjamas and am in my bed. Plus while changing I noticed that my weight loss efforts have been working and so I am feeling a bit better. :smile:

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