Doctor Who - Discussion Thread III (no untagged future spoilers)
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Original post by Hype en Ecosse
I love, love, love Capaldi's Doctor...I hated everything else. It's like the show should be shifted to Cbeebies.
This was my thought, I actually liked Capaldi, and it's annoying that people are hating on him because the episode as a whole was pretty dreadful.
I'm not liking Madame Vastra and Jenny and Strax at all anymore, it seems like Moffat is trying to have his own loveable recurring characters (like there used to be with Captain Jack Harkness, Mickey, and Sarah Jane and the rest of the companions like Martha who randomly popped up after their time), which really isn't working for me, since he just seems to be shoving them down the viewer's throat.
And Clara seems to have gotten blander which is annoying, hopefully she gets a bit more development with Capaldi as the doctor hmph.
The plot/villains were actually okay though, fairly creepy if you looked at them away from the rest of the episode which was quite ridiculous, the bit about the promised land was all very creepy, but it was all just poorly executed.
Original post by Hype en Ecosse
I think Moffat episodes are usually spectacular - I always greatly enjoyed those he wrote for Eccleston, Tennant and Smith. And I actually enjoyed the later series of Doctor Who when he was head writer - S8E1 was just an abomination. Far too many attempts at cheap laughs; childish sound effects followed by rag-dolling actors; Strax went from "mild comedy relief" to "retarded sidekick where all he's good for is to laugh at"; even the camerawork had changed drastically and seemed more fit for an episode of the Chucklebrothers rather than a family sci-fi drama at some points.
Clara was written from an actually interesting, intelligent, confident character into a petty little girl for 90% of the episode. Madame Vastra went from "I've lived for centuries of history, so am understandably quite intelligent about extraterrestrial affairs, and am also quite empathetic" into "I'm a know-it-all bitch and I'm proud of it". Even their acting direction seems to have changed.
I think the "dwelling Doctor" was meant to be entirely on purpose to play up to the old trope of how "difficult" regeneration is, and it takes the Doctor a while to sort of "wake up" from it and accept himself. I don't expect we'll be getting much more of this in later episodes.
I really didn't like the episode at all - really seemed more like a kids' show at times as opposed to a family drama. Hope to see a turn around from this; hope it was just this one episode!
Edit: I disagree that Madame Vastra, Jenny and Straxx need to go - I usually greatly enjoy the characters, and especially enjoy the featuring of a homosexual relationship on primetime telly, but I think they were just extremely poorly written this episode.
Clara was written from an actually interesting, intelligent, confident character into a petty little girl for 90% of the episode. Madame Vastra went from "I've lived for centuries of history, so am understandably quite intelligent about extraterrestrial affairs, and am also quite empathetic" into "I'm a know-it-all bitch and I'm proud of it". Even their acting direction seems to have changed.
I think the "dwelling Doctor" was meant to be entirely on purpose to play up to the old trope of how "difficult" regeneration is, and it takes the Doctor a while to sort of "wake up" from it and accept himself. I don't expect we'll be getting much more of this in later episodes.
I really didn't like the episode at all - really seemed more like a kids' show at times as opposed to a family drama. Hope to see a turn around from this; hope it was just this one episode!
Edit: I disagree that Madame Vastra, Jenny and Straxx need to go - I usually greatly enjoy the characters, and especially enjoy the featuring of a homosexual relationship on primetime telly, but I think they were just extremely poorly written this episode.
At the very least they need to change what function those three have in the show - Vastra just takes over the Doctor's role, Jenny is perfectly fine, Strax has no use and just provides mild comic relief like throwing a newspaper at Clara.
A couple of negative points I saw in episode: The dinosaur was just placed in the episode for a few minutes and then just killed off, without much explanation of where it came from.. Unless they intend to show what happened during the gap between the series.
Also the number of times it was mentioned that Vastra and Jenny were in a relationship just seemed unnecessary, we get it and liked it in previous series, but it seemed like they spent an 1/8th of the episode just constantly mentioning it.. And the close up shot of their kiss
It just reiterates the point that they seem to be unnecessary characters in their current persona.I like the camera work, seems odd, much like the Capaldi's Doctor, he feels sort of ..distanced.
Daleks next week
Thoughts:
Capaldi is fantastic. He played it just the way I hoped he would, so I'm really excited to see how he develops the character.
The episode was ok, decent but not fantastic. I am bored of Vastra and her gang, although I do like the fact that they are occasional companions - I like it when there are characters that pop up from time to time without being in every episode (like Captain Jack used to do, for example). It makes the Doctor's world seem a little bigger than just companion + Tardis.
BUT I didn't like the ending. At all. I think it's pointing to a Moffat-style OH NO WHO IS SHE WHAT DOES IT ALL MEEEEEEEAN where there are no clues, just mystery that gets resolved 3 years later.
Which leads me to my final point - I want Moffatt to go. I am totally sick of his style, and I really wish that he'd left at the same time as Matt. As long as he stays then his foibles are going to stay - overly complex plots with no subtlety, and every female character being written the same way. Moffatt does "feisty" women, who have little else to their personality. I like women to be feisty, but not every woman is the same and it takes away from the immerse element of the show when the characters are too similar. Amy = River = Vastra = Clara = Jenny = all the others. They may have tiny differences, but the basic personality is the same each time and it's just too boring as a viewer.
Capaldi is fantastic. He played it just the way I hoped he would, so I'm really excited to see how he develops the character.
The episode was ok, decent but not fantastic. I am bored of Vastra and her gang, although I do like the fact that they are occasional companions - I like it when there are characters that pop up from time to time without being in every episode (like Captain Jack used to do, for example). It makes the Doctor's world seem a little bigger than just companion + Tardis.
BUT I didn't like the ending. At all. I think it's pointing to a Moffat-style OH NO WHO IS SHE WHAT DOES IT ALL MEEEEEEEAN where there are no clues, just mystery that gets resolved 3 years later.
Which leads me to my final point - I want Moffatt to go. I am totally sick of his style, and I really wish that he'd left at the same time as Matt. As long as he stays then his foibles are going to stay - overly complex plots with no subtlety, and every female character being written the same way. Moffatt does "feisty" women, who have little else to their personality. I like women to be feisty, but not every woman is the same and it takes away from the immerse element of the show when the characters are too similar. Amy = River = Vastra = Clara = Jenny = all the others. They may have tiny differences, but the basic personality is the same each time and it's just too boring as a viewer.
Original post by Feefifofum
Thoughts:
Capaldi is fantastic. He played it just the way I hoped he would, so I'm really excited to see how he develops the character.
The episode was ok, decent but not fantastic. I am bored of Vastra and her gang, although I do like the fact that they are occasional companions - I like it when there are characters that pop up from time to time without being in every episode (like Captain Jack used to do, for example). It makes the Doctor's world seem a little bigger than just companion + Tardis.
BUT I didn't like the ending. At all. I think it's pointing to a Moffat-style OH NO WHO IS SHE WHAT DOES IT ALL MEEEEEEEAN where there are no clues, just mystery that gets resolved 3 years later.
Which leads me to my final point - I want Moffatt to go. I am totally sick of his style, and I really wish that he'd left at the same time as Matt. As long as he stays then his foibles are going to stay - overly complex plots with no subtlety, and every female character being written the same way. Moffatt does "feisty" women, who have little else to their personality. I like women to be feisty, but not every woman is the same and it takes away from the immerse element of the show when the characters are too similar. Amy = River = Vastra = Clara = Jenny = all the others. They may have tiny differences, but the basic personality is the same each time and it's just too boring as a viewer.
Capaldi is fantastic. He played it just the way I hoped he would, so I'm really excited to see how he develops the character.
The episode was ok, decent but not fantastic. I am bored of Vastra and her gang, although I do like the fact that they are occasional companions - I like it when there are characters that pop up from time to time without being in every episode (like Captain Jack used to do, for example). It makes the Doctor's world seem a little bigger than just companion + Tardis.
BUT I didn't like the ending. At all. I think it's pointing to a Moffat-style OH NO WHO IS SHE WHAT DOES IT ALL MEEEEEEEAN where there are no clues, just mystery that gets resolved 3 years later.
Which leads me to my final point - I want Moffatt to go. I am totally sick of his style, and I really wish that he'd left at the same time as Matt. As long as he stays then his foibles are going to stay - overly complex plots with no subtlety, and every female character being written the same way. Moffatt does "feisty" women, who have little else to their personality. I like women to be feisty, but not every woman is the same and it takes away from the immerse element of the show when the characters are too similar. Amy = River = Vastra = Clara = Jenny = all the others. They may have tiny differences, but the basic personality is the same each time and it's just too boring as a viewer.
I preferred RTD's style of story telling- it was subtler, less in your face, more sneaky. Moffat goes all out, all the time. This works a lot of the time, but sometimes it gets too much. Having said that, moff has written some killer episodes in the past, so I really hope this series works for him!
Posted from TSR Mobile
Capaldi was brilliant! As great as he is at acting, I didn't have high expectations of him as the doctor but he seriously surpassed them!
I'm particularly excited about the 'Robot of Sherwood' episode
Tom Riley =
I'm particularly excited about the 'Robot of Sherwood' episode
Tom Riley =
Original post by Hype en Ecosse
I think the "dwelling Doctor" was meant to be entirely on purpose to play up to the old trope of how "difficult" regeneration is, and it takes the Doctor a while to sort of "wake up" from it and accept himself. I don't expect we'll be getting much more of this in later episodes.
I think the "dwelling Doctor" was meant to be entirely on purpose to play up to the old trope of how "difficult" regeneration is, and it takes the Doctor a while to sort of "wake up" from it and accept himself. I don't expect we'll be getting much more of this in later episodes.
That's true - The Christmas Invasion featured the Doctor being asleep for half the episode, but that wasn't a bad episode at all. It's somewhat more reasonable that a guy who's just undergone a major transformation and used a lot of energy is probably going to be a bit tired/weird/dysfunctional for a bit.
Tell you what, they're playing the Dalek card very early this series.
Original post by timeywimey
I swear everyone thinks a new mysterious character that appears in Doctor Who is the Master
If she is though... that will be so amazing. 
Original post by Feefifofum
Thoughts:
Capaldi is fantastic. He played it just the way I hoped he would, so I'm really excited to see how he develops the character.
The episode was ok, decent but not fantastic. I am bored of Vastra and her gang, although I do like the fact that they are occasional companions - I like it when there are characters that pop up from time to time without being in every episode (like Captain Jack used to do, for example). It makes the Doctor's world seem a little bigger than just companion + Tardis.
BUT I didn't like the ending. At all. I think it's pointing to a Moffat-style OH NO WHO IS SHE WHAT DOES IT ALL MEEEEEEEAN where there are no clues, just mystery that gets resolved 3 years later.
Which leads me to my final point - I want Moffatt to go. I am totally sick of his style, and I really wish that he'd left at the same time as Matt. As long as he stays then his foibles are going to stay - overly complex plots with no subtlety, and every female character being written the same way. Moffatt does "feisty" women, who have little else to their personality. I like women to be feisty, but not every woman is the same and it takes away from the immerse element of the show when the characters are too similar. Amy = River = Vastra = Clara = Jenny = all the others. They may have tiny differences, but the basic personality is the same each time and it's just too boring as a viewer.
Capaldi is fantastic. He played it just the way I hoped he would, so I'm really excited to see how he develops the character.
The episode was ok, decent but not fantastic. I am bored of Vastra and her gang, although I do like the fact that they are occasional companions - I like it when there are characters that pop up from time to time without being in every episode (like Captain Jack used to do, for example). It makes the Doctor's world seem a little bigger than just companion + Tardis.
BUT I didn't like the ending. At all. I think it's pointing to a Moffat-style OH NO WHO IS SHE WHAT DOES IT ALL MEEEEEEEAN where there are no clues, just mystery that gets resolved 3 years later.
Which leads me to my final point - I want Moffatt to go. I am totally sick of his style, and I really wish that he'd left at the same time as Matt. As long as he stays then his foibles are going to stay - overly complex plots with no subtlety, and every female character being written the same way. Moffatt does "feisty" women, who have little else to their personality. I like women to be feisty, but not every woman is the same and it takes away from the immerse element of the show when the characters are too similar. Amy = River = Vastra = Clara = Jenny = all the others. They may have tiny differences, but the basic personality is the same each time and it's just too boring as a viewer.
Moffat wrote The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances, The Girl in the Fireplace and Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead. He is capable of great stories. He is a fantastic writer.
However, he cannot write a series.
Original post by vee_wuvshugs
I swear everyone thinks a new mysterious character that appears in Doctor Who is the Master If she is though... that will be so amazing.
If she is though... that will be so amazing. Moffat confirmed the master wouldn't be making a return as he thought doctor who was ''done with the master'' so chances are it is definitely not the master
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by alpen
Moffat confirmed the maser wouldn't be making a return as he thought doctor who was ''done with the master'' so chances are it is definitely not the master
Oh Moffat. The love/hate relationship we have is definitely a strong one. I really wish RTD returned to write for the 12th Dr. That's never going happen though.
Original post by vee_wuvshugs
Oh Moffat. The love/hate relationship we have is definitely a strong one. I really wish RTD returned to write for the 12th Dr. That's never going happen though.
Yeah it's a shame, but honestly I thought deep breath was better than most of the standalone episodes in series 7 (perhaps apart from time of the doctor, 50th anniversary and time of the doctor and the angels ep). It was miles better than the opener for Clara tbh
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by alpen
Yeah it's a shame, but honestly I thought deep breath was better than most of the standalone episodes in series 7 (perhaps apart from time of the doctor, 50th anniversary and time of the doctor and the angels ep). It was miles better than the opener for Clara tbh
I didn't bother watching the first half of season 7 when Clara became his companion when it aired. Moffat isn't suited to writing a whole series but damn he can make a good standalone plot. I guess that's why Sherlock is so good. I have to agree, this first episode was brilliant. I loved all the sly comments about the old Doctors
"The girl in the fire place" is one of my favourite episodes so I really appreciated the (near) continuation of the plot. I feel a new side of the Dr was revealed when he abandoned Clara and I think we'll be seeing a lot more of it. This was definitely Jenna's best performance to date!! And the call though...(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by snowyowl
I have to respectfully disagree with you. I'm GLAD there won't be any romance. It's about time! Romance between the Doctor and anyone else just kills the show for me.
I can see where you're coming from but the dynamic between her and Smith was really good - flirty but developing pretty organically into a deeper and clearly mutual affection. I agree that romance should not distract from the rest of the story/characterisation but done well I think it can definitely add to the depth of the character and create engaging plots. The girl in the fireplace is, in my opinion, one of the best episodes ever and romance is absolutely central to the emotional significance of that.
You could fit two whole extra episodes in all the *******s in Doctor Who these days!
What happened to light hearted, throwaway, one-off stories?
Now it's all so epic and "meaningful", and they keep shoehorning romance in all over the place.
Capaldi is good though.
What happened to light hearted, throwaway, one-off stories?
Now it's all so epic and "meaningful", and they keep shoehorning romance in all over the place.
Capaldi is good though.
I thought Missy could of been another reincarnation of the Tardis.
I think Peter Capaldi is a great actor and is brilliant at being the Doctor but I'm not too sure on the episode
It felt kind of boring to me unfortunately.
I think Peter Capaldi is a great actor and is brilliant at being the Doctor but I'm not too sure on the episode
It felt kind of boring to me unfortunately.
Original post by katiiiiie
I thought Missy could of been another reincarnation of the Tardis.
I think Peter Capaldi is a great actor and is brilliant at being the Doctor but I'm not too sure on the episode It felt kind of boring to me unfortunately.
I think Peter Capaldi is a great actor and is brilliant at being the Doctor but I'm not too sure on the episode
It felt kind of boring to me unfortunately.Spoiler
Original post by Jean-Luc Picard
Spoiler
Maybe so, I also thought during the episode it would of been River Song but when I thought about it further I kinda got to the whole Tardis reincarnation thing. Just because of the way Missy presented herself, quite like Idris did. I hope we get to find out soon enough though
Original post by katiiiiie
Maybe so, I also thought during the episode it would of been River Song but when I thought about it further I kinda got to the whole Tardis reincarnation thing. Just because of the way Missy presented herself, quite like Idris did. I hope we get to find out soon enough though
I imagine we'll have to wait for the season finale for most of the answers tbh, they like to make us wait lol
Original post by Feefifofum
Thoughts:
Capaldi is fantastic. He played it just the way I hoped he would, so I'm really excited to see how he develops the character.
The episode was ok, decent but not fantastic. I am bored of Vastra and her gang, although I do like the fact that they are occasional companions - I like it when there are characters that pop up from time to time without being in every episode (like Captain Jack used to do, for example). It makes the Doctor's world seem a little bigger than just companion + Tardis.
BUT I didn't like the ending. At all. I think it's pointing to a Moffat-style OH NO WHO IS SHE WHAT DOES IT ALL MEEEEEEEAN where there are no clues, just mystery that gets resolved 3 years later.
Which leads me to my final point - I want Moffatt to go. I am totally sick of his style, and I really wish that he'd left at the same time as Matt. As long as he stays then his foibles are going to stay - overly complex plots with no subtlety, and every female character being written the same way. Moffatt does "feisty" women, who have little else to their personality. I like women to be feisty, but not every woman is the same and it takes away from the immerse element of the show when the characters are too similar. Amy = River = Vastra = Clara = Jenny = all the others. They may have tiny differences, but the basic personality is the same each time and it's just too boring as a viewer.
Capaldi is fantastic. He played it just the way I hoped he would, so I'm really excited to see how he develops the character.
The episode was ok, decent but not fantastic. I am bored of Vastra and her gang, although I do like the fact that they are occasional companions - I like it when there are characters that pop up from time to time without being in every episode (like Captain Jack used to do, for example). It makes the Doctor's world seem a little bigger than just companion + Tardis.
BUT I didn't like the ending. At all. I think it's pointing to a Moffat-style OH NO WHO IS SHE WHAT DOES IT ALL MEEEEEEEAN where there are no clues, just mystery that gets resolved 3 years later.
Which leads me to my final point - I want Moffatt to go. I am totally sick of his style, and I really wish that he'd left at the same time as Matt. As long as he stays then his foibles are going to stay - overly complex plots with no subtlety, and every female character being written the same way. Moffatt does "feisty" women, who have little else to their personality. I like women to be feisty, but not every woman is the same and it takes away from the immerse element of the show when the characters are too similar. Amy = River = Vastra = Clara = Jenny = all the others. They may have tiny differences, but the basic personality is the same each time and it's just too boring as a viewer.
Agreed. Also the whole "we must make it super clear they are lesbians, and of course emphasis that really Clara is in love with the Doctor and useless without him as what are women without men? Unless of course they are transspecies lesbians and therefore have a shock factor..."
Did anyone else notice when Clara holds here breath She doesn't hold her nose?-the clockwork droids may be idiotic but that doesn't explain why She collapsed because it is easy to simply close your mouth and you can't stop yourself breathing without your nostrils being closed and they weren't during the scene.
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