Douglas Murray delivers incredible speech on immigration

He speaks very well. I've just started watching but i'd have to call him out on something. He says there was a very clear group of people living in Britain, I don't think this is true at all, England had the Saxons, Romans, Vikings, various other tribes, Normans, the Glorious Reaction put a Dutch monarch on the throne and then of course we have the can of worms of the Hanoverian ancestory of our monarchy. Not to mention the country was split into Protestants and Catholics who had fundamental disagreements, there are probably hundreds of other minor groups I haven't pointed out but these are the main ones.

Reply 4

samba

6

If that's incredible, I hate to think of the effect a 4/10 girl would have on you.

Reply 5

I just finished the speech and thought he did a good job answering the questions, I have no objections other than the above.

Reply 6

Original post by Dunax

I stopped when he said mass immigration didn't happen in the 50s/60s rather the 90s, that is just such blatant misinformation. news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/uk/2002/race/short_history_of_immigration.stm

Lol you've got him wrong. He later points out how Huguenots immigrated to Britain over a long period, he's simply pointing out that the speed and amount of immigration isn't comparable to the 1950s. Look at the census which is released every 10 years if you want evidence of this.

Reply 7

SophiaLDN

13

So much hysteria over 'immigration' because they don't want what they did to Australia/ the Aboriginals to happen here. :rolleyes:

You know when you do something bad and you're paranoid that everyone is going to do the same to you... yeah, that.

Reply 8

Original post by SophiaLDN

So much hysteria over 'immigration' because they don't want what they did to Australia/ the Aboriginals to happen here. :rolleyes:

You know when you do something bad and you're paranoid that everyone is going to do the same to you... yeah, that.

Is this the standard of debate in Britain? We have social institutions that teach children to attack the foundations of our society, it's no wonder we have so many problems.

Reply 9

Original post by Dunax

I'm not talking about Huguenots or 1600s, there was plenty of mass-immigration in 1950s/60s/70s that happened within a pretty small time-period. He even acknowledged the mass immigration of Ugandan Asians within the spam of less than two months so why is he fixated on the 90s? Probably just so he can bash "new labor" and blame everything on them (I'm a conservative but I just hate people who love to lump all societal problems on new labor).

Why not just look at the census... It's clear for anyone who wants to look he's not exaggerating at all; immigration increased massively under New Labour. It's a fact.

Reply 10

Original post by Dunax

Also, this. This is just very small pittance to all the trouble British/European colonialism has caused around the world from Africa to Middle east to South east Asia. And just lol at any apologist who tries to bring up some bull**** about foreign aid as though spending less than 1% of GNI is such a burdening thing or tries to talk about all the good aka technological developments that the British brought, that's like a rich dude beating you up and then dropping their Iphone and can't be bothered/sees no need to get it back so expect you to be grateful that you at least now have a Iphone.

British have and still are massively benefiting from colonialism/imperialism. People acting as though British society is on the brinks of complete societal collapse when that's just pure fear-mongering and a result of living such empty lifestyles that you focus on immigration/problems of British society and can't see all the beauty and stability around you.

- Colonialism was a universal phenomena and was a colonise or be colonised situation, if Britain did not expand, France would, if France did not expand, Germany would ad infinitum, disgusting yes but hardly limited to Britain. Not to mention the history of the world according to Mussolini has been one of 'perpetual warfare', he was right about that!

- The problem with foreign aid is not that it costs Britain so much but that it's not used in the interests of the people but is used by corrupt governments who enrich themselves or worse.

- Britain did bring technological advancement to its colonies.

- Britain has had greater political stability than most for a very long time, we benefit from colonialism mainly through protectionist policies that prevent developing nations from competing due to lack of technology among other things but these are consequences of colonialisation not continuation of it.

- Britain has decling social institutions because we've lost our identity, we have material propserity (or most of us) but this is all we've experienced so we're entitled gits, the educated generation (teaching professionals) grew up as radicals and we're paying for it.

Reply 11

SophiaLDN

13

Original post by Dunax

Also, this. This is just very small pittance to all the trouble British/European colonialism has caused around the world from Africa to Middle east to South east Asia. And just lol at any apologist who tries to bring up some bull**** about foreign aid as though spending less than 1% of GNI is such a burdening thing or tries to talk about all the good aka technological developments that the British brought, that's like a rich dude beating you up and then dropping their Iphone and can't be bothered/sees no need to get it back so expect you to be grateful that you at least now have a Iphone.

British have and still are massively benefiting from colonialism/imperialism. People acting as though British society is on the brinks of complete societal collapse when that's just pure fear-mongering and a result of living such empty lifestyles that you focus on immigration/problems of British society and can't see all the beauty and stability around you.

+100000!!! "You've already rated a post by this user recently!" :frown:

I don't understand how people cannot grasp this, its so simple.
I think its pretty incredible how its one rule for them, and another for everyone else. They refer to themselves as 'expats' only yet everyone else is an immigrant. Interesting.

Reply 12

Spoken like a true clown, no one takes him seriously and the Spectator and Telegraph keep trying to push this person into public life and the public keep dismissing him.

He has a small cult following on the net but 0 influence on popular culture or political debate in the UK

Reply 13

Original post by James222

Spoken like a true clown, no one takes him seriously and the Spectator and Telegraph keep trying to push this person into public life and the public keep dismissing him.

He has a small cult following on the net but 0 influence on popular culture or political debate in the UK

Any chance of you actually refuting his views?

Reply 14

Original post by Malorys ballsack

Any chance of you actually refuting his views?

No need, people like Douglas like to say controversial things abit like fake viral videos created by ad companies on youtube to get attention. The best way to respond to them is change the game not play the game Douglas wants you play. In this case exposing the context in which the statements are being made allowing the reader to understand the lens through which to judge douglas.

Reply 15

Original post by James222

No need, people like Douglas like to say controversial things abit like fake viral videos created by ad companies on youtube to get attention. The best way to respond to them is change the game not play the game Douglas wants you play. In this case exposing the context in which the statements are being made allowing the reader to understand the lens through which to judge douglas.

I don't understand what you mean. It sounds to me like you're refusing to engage in a discussion of the matter and are instead brushing him off as an extremist. I watched the speech and pulled him up on a few things I disagree with, but he seemed to reason with facts at least and quite well at that.

By brushing him off it only makes you look like you don't have an answer. This isn't some guy promoting aether as an alternative to the theory of relativity he's demonstrated a few sound points concerning immigration. It's intellectually dishonest not to address them.

Are you a Labour supporter? You sound like you're being partisan. (I'm a Conservative voter).

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 16

Original post by Malorys ballsack

I don't understand what you mean. It sounds to me like you're refusing to engage in a discussion of the matter and are instead brushing him off as an extremist. I watched the speech and pulled him up on a few things I disagree with, but he seemed to reason with facts at least and quite well at that.

By brushing him off it only makes you look like you don't have an answer. This isn't some guy promoting aether as an alternative to the theory of relativity he's demonstrated a few sound points concerning immigration. It's intellectually dishonest not to address them.

Are you a Labour supporter? You sound like you're being partisan. (I'm a Conservative voter).

Douglas Murray isnt a tory. Yes I am refusing to engage in a discussion with a extremists, instead I want to lay a context so people can judge what Murray says with those facts.

whilst its tempting to engage in debate on every single point which is quite easy to refute, Murray thrives not off intelligent debate but dragging islams name through the mud and hoping to generate headlines on page 1 and refutations on page z.

It may look like I dont have a answer or it may look like watch with a pinch of salt.

Reply 17

Original post by James222

Douglas Murray isnt a tory. Yes I am refusing to engage in a discussion with a extremists, instead I want to lay a context so people can judge what Murray says with those facts.

whilst its tempting to engage in debate on every single point which is quite easy to refute, Murray thrives not off intelligent debate but dragging islams name through the mud and hoping to generate headlines on page 1 and refutations on page z.

It may look like I dont have a answer or it may look like watch with a pinch of salt.

Sorry there's only one person who looks like an extremist here and it's not Murray. Your refusal to debate even though you have consistently said how easy it is gives me no confidence in your ability and understanding of the issue. As for dragging Islams name through the mud, it's done an excellent job at this by itself, pointing out problems in Islam is not 'islamophobia' it's rationality.

Reply 18