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The Israel/Palestine Conflict Mk. IV

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Original post by The Right
Mate we tried in the Israel/Palestine Gaza thread to get a valid argument from tsr1269 but in 200+ Pages of debate it was never achieved. I have found out he is Muslim so clearly his only reason to be anti-Israeli and anti-Jewish is because every other Muslim/Islamic nation thinks so and he must be taught it.


I don't recall discussing my religious beliefs nor anything to do with the SS/Palestine Conflict with you. :confused:
Original post by yo radical one
Because it was a system for territories to be transferred from the control of one country to another

The territory was "Palestine", the country it was transferred from was the Ottoman Empire and the country it was transferred to, was the British Empire.


I don't think anyone has mentioned "control". In fact, it is only you who have brought up control bringing up concepts such as geopolitical entity and mandate, all concepts which are to do with the "control of a territory which may or may not be a country".

As it stands, Mandatory Palestine, regardless of the control exercised over it, was a country.


Go take your "control" argument somewhere else. It has no relevance to the current thread.
Original post by tsr1269
How so?

I don't understand what is so difficult about this.

British Mandate formed. British Mandate dissolved. Borders formed and this now includes Jordan and the SS.

From whose country are the Palestinians demanding a state from?

It can't be the SS because that has borders, it can't be Jordon because that has borders and it can't be Mandatory Palestine because that entity has been extinguished.

So I ask again, from whose country are the Palestinians demanding a state from?


The problematic bit is your claim that the British Mandate was a country or part of a country. Can you defend that statement please with a definition of the word "country"?

To date the definition you gave would suggest either that the land the Palestinians want for their state is part of the country of Israel or that Israel was not formed from part of a country.
Original post by tsr1269
I don't think anyone has mentioned "control". In fact, it is only you who have brought up control bringing up concepts such as geopolitical entity and mandate, all concepts which are to do with the "control of a territory which may or may not be a country".

As it stands, Mandatory Palestine, regardless of the control exercised over it, was a country.


Go take your "control" argument somewhere else. It has no relevance to the current thread.


You clearly don't understand, maybe you need to read my post again.


"Palestine" (the territory) was part of the Ottoman empire (a country) and was transferred to the British Empire (another country), is this really too difficult for you?
Original post by UniOfLife
The problematic bit is your claim that the British Mandate was a country or part of a country. Can you defend that statement please with a definition of the word "country"?


I already have. Check my earlier definition.

To date the definition you gave would suggest either that the land the Palestinians want for their state is part of the country of Israel or that Israel was not formed from part of a country.


How? When the Mandate dissolved, did the SS "inherit" the whole of the Mandate or part of the Mandate?

If the SS was not formed "from part of a country", from what was it formed from?
Original post by tsr1269
Have we met before? Could you show me where I have stated these things that you have claimed that I have stated?



Didn't I? See my excellent analysis in the Israel/Palestine Conflict thread.



I take it you don't support the IDF? You could have fooled me...:rolleyes:

I would have to spend hours searching through threads that go up to 200+, 300+ pages(this does not include the various ones deleted while the Gaza conflict was the hot topic) to have you deny again like you have done numerously. What do I get by showing you what you seem to forget and what everyone else knows?

To save time let's get things straight. You are pro-Palestine are you not? You dislike Israel right? And you are no fan of the west, correct?

We know you are Muslim, and the general consensus illustrates that Muslim populations and Islamic nations altogether dislike Israelis/Jews most compared to the rest of the world.

You can deny all you want but you quote the 1948 independence from British Mandatory Palestine often meaning your stigma with Israel stems before any conflict in the last 20 years. You once said the Jewish state should of been instated in Russia or Europe after WW2(you will probably deny that but i remember) so the whole transfer of powers to the Jewish population angers you somehow.

I have seen little condemnation from you regarding ISIS. I have followed the ISIS thread continuously as well as the Gaza thread. More Muslims have died at the hands of ISIS yet you still remain fixated on Israel and the jews which begs the question do you really care about Muslims? Or do you just hate Israel like mad?

You stand by the fact stores in the UK removed kosher products in response to the unplanned riots by Muslim protestors against the Israeli offensive yet you do not agree with the what is fair that Halal products should be removed in response to ISIS.

To finish things off on this exact thread I asked who you believe to be more dangerous towards UK citizens- the Islamic community or semitic community. Let's do the math. We had 7/7(plus the 1000s of bombings throughout the world), lee rigby was barbarically murdered in the name of Islam, 2013 11 Muslims were arrested during operation Pitsford for terrorist plots in Birmingham, 500+ British jihadist have fought alongside ISIS in Iraq and Syria, we had the likes of Abu Qatada radicalising Muslims over the country, we had 1400+ account of rape and sexual abuse recently reported in Rotherham by Pakistani Muslims, we have those girls last year acid attacked at their front door by muslims, we had the Trojan horse incident where Muslims were infiltrating schools in the midlands and consequently radicalising them, widespread Muslim sex grooming of children, I could do this all day. Plus you got the fact there were Muslim protests in some East London areas trying to impose shariah law.

What has the Semitic or Jewish population let's say done accept hit a racist, vile man.


you are very clearly an anti-Jewish person who will spend the rest of his life putting Jews and Israelis down.
Original post by yo radical one
You clearly don't understand, maybe you need to read my post again.


"Palestine" (the territory) was part of the Ottoman empire (a country) and was transferred to the British Empire (another country), is this really too difficult for you?


Seems like it's going to be quite long before this sinks in so let's start from the beginning:

Did Mandatory Palestine have borders?
Original post by tsr1269
I already have. Check my earlier definition.

How? When the Mandate dissolved, did the SS "inherit" the whole of the Mandate or part of the Mandate?

If the SS was not formed "from part of a country", from what was it formed from?


I could ask you the same question. If Palestine will not be formed "from part of a country", from what will it be formed from?

Your answer to that question is key to this discussion.
Original post by tsr1269
Seems like it's going to be quite long before this sinks in so let's start from the beginning:

Did Mandatory Palestine have borders?


Yes in the same way that Norfolk has borders, Yorkshire has borders etc
Original post by tsr1269
Have we met before? Could you show me where I have stated these things that you have claimed that I have stated?



Didn't I? See my excellent analysis in the Israel/Palestine Conflict thread.



I take it you don't support the IDF? You could have fooled me...:rolleyes:

I would have to spend hours searching through threads that go up to 200+, 300+ pages(this does not include the various ones deleted while the Gaza conflict was the hot topic) to have you deny again like you have done numerously. What do I get by showing you what you seem to forget and what everyone else knows?

To save time let's get things straight. You are pro-Palestine are you not? You dislike Israel right? And you are no fan of the west, correct?

We know you are Muslim, and the general consensus illustrates that Muslim populations and Islamic nations altogether dislike Israelis/Jews most compared to the rest of the world.

You can deny all you want but you quote the 1948 independence from British Mandatory Palestine often meaning your stigma with Israel stems before any conflict in the last 20 years. You once said the Jewish state should of been instated in Russia or Europe after WW2(you will probably deny that but i remember) so the whole transfer of powers to the Jewish population angers you somehow.

I have seen little condemnation from you regarding ISIS. I have followed the ISIS thread continuously as well as the Gaza thread. More Muslims have died at the hands of ISIS yet you still remain fixated on Israel and the jews which begs the question do you really care about Muslims? Or do you just hate Israel like mad?

You stand by the fact stores in the UK removed kosher products in response to the unplanned riots by Muslim protestors against the Israeli offensive yet you do not agree with the what is fair that Halal products should be removed in response to ISIS.

To finish things off on this exact thread I asked who you believe to be more dangerous towards UK citizens- the Islamic community or semitic community. Let's do the math. We had 7/7(plus the 1000s of bombings throughout the world), lee rigby was barbarically murdered in the name of Islam, 2013 11 Muslims were arrested during operation Pitsford for terrorist plots in Birmingham, 500+ British jihadist have fought alongside ISIS in Iraq and Syria, we had the likes of Abu Qatada radicalising Muslims over the country, we had 1400+ account of rape and sexual abuse recently reported in Rotherham by Pakistani Muslims, we have those girls last year acid attacked at their front door by muslims, we had the Trojan horse incident where Muslims were infiltrating schools in the midlands and consequently radicalising them, you've got nation spread Islamic sex grooming of children, I could go on and on. Plus what about the islam4uk political group which was stripped of its status and instead revealed to be linked to Al Qaeda. And you've got the Islamic groups who wanted to impose shariah law in East London towns.

Now you have the Semitic or lets say Jewish community who have hit a vile, racist man, I can barely find criticism anywhere for them.

How can you compare the 2. You are clearly a racist and hate the Israeli/Jewish people. You will spend all your time putting them down.
Original post by The Right
I would have to spend hours searching through threads that go up to 200+, 300+ pages(this does not include the various ones deleted while the Gaza conflict was the hot topic) to have you deny again like you have done numerously. What do I get by showing you what you seem to forget and what everyone else knows?


You get to not be called a liar or a falsifier of statements or a person who can back up his opinions?

To save time let's get things straight. You are pro-Palestine are you not?


I don't identify myself as such so that'll be a no.

You dislike Israel right?


Nope.

And you are no fan of the west, correct?


Nope again.

We know you are Muslim, and the general consensus illustrates that Muslim populations and Islamic nations altogether dislike Israelis/Jews most compared to the rest of the world.


You don't know anything about me. Why don't you try and prove that I am a Muslim?

You can deny all you want but you quote the 1948 independence from British Mandatory Palestine often meaning your stigma with Israel stems before any conflict in the last 20 years. You once said the Jewish state should of been instated in Russia or Europe after WW2(you will probably deny that but i remember) so the whole transfer of powers to the Jewish population angers you somehow.


I feel a great injustice was done, yes.

I have seen little condemnation from you regarding ISIS. I have followed the ISIS thread continuously as well as the Gaza thread. More Muslims have died at the hands of ISIS yet you still remain fixated on Israel and the jews which begs the question do you really care about Muslims? Or do you just hate Israel like mad?


Ah, whataboutery card yet again! Man, let your arguments stand up for themselves. Don't prop them up with whataboutery.

You stand by the fact stores in the UK removed kosher products in response to the unplanned riots by Muslim protestors against the Israeli offensive yet you do not agree with the what is fair that Halal products should be removed in response to ISIS.


I don't think I've ever said that but I'd love to see some of my own posts refute me.

To finish things off on this exact thread I asked who you believe to be more dangerous towards UK citizens- the Islamic community or semitic community. Let's do the math. We had 7/7(plus the 1000s of bombings throughout the world), lee rigby was barbarically murdered in the name of Islam, 2013 11 Muslims were arrested during operation Pitsford for terrorist plots in Birmingham, 500+ British jihadist have fought alongside ISIS in Iraq and Syria, we had the likes of Abu Qatada radicalising Muslims over the country, we had 1400+ account of rape and sexual abuse recently reported in Rotherham by Pakistani Muslims, we have those girls last year acid attacked at their front door by muslims, we had the Trojan horse incident where Muslims were infiltrating schools in the midlands and consequently radicalising them, widespread Muslim sex grooming of children, I could do this all day. Plus you got the fact there were Muslim protests in some East London areas trying to impose shariah law.


Right, okay.

What has the Semitic or Jewish population let's say done accept hit a racist, vile man.


Are you attempting to justify "Semitic" violence?

you are very clearly an anti-Jewish person who will spend the rest of his life putting Jews and Israelis down.


The "clearly" hasn't manifested itself in your posts...
Original post by UniOfLife
I could ask you the same question. If Palestine will not be formed "from part of a country", from what will it be formed from?

Your answer to that question is key to this discussion.


More whataboutery! Damn man, you make me cry....with laughter.

I shall repost and hope that you have the decency to answer:

"When the Mandate dissolved, did the SS "inherit" the whole of the Mandate or part of the Mandate?If the SS was not formed "from part of a country", from what was it formed from?"
Original post by Meenglishnogood
still some politicians have the odd good policies. he doesnt, he just panders to islamists to get the muslim vote. as i said hes a slimeball


As I have said, it is a popularity contest.

What is so difficult to understand?
Original post by tsr1269
As I have said, it is a popularity contest.

What is so difficult to understand?

only for the uneducated voter. i would never vote for someone simply because they supported some agenda run 7000 kms away in arabian lands
Original post by yo radical one
Yes in the same way that Norfolk has borders, Yorkshire has borders etc


I don't understand why you keep making comparisons. If you feel that the SS should exist on it's own merits, then make that argument. If not, then you have no argument.

Constant referrals to Norfolk or Yorkshire will not change the fact that Mandatory Palestine was a country. It may have been the territory of the British Empire but it was a country all the same, hence why it has borders.

I must say, looking back on that, you can use Norfolk all you want but it shall remain that Mandatory Palestine was a country within the British Empire, similar to how Norfolk and Yorkshire are counties within the UK and London is a city within the UK.
Original post by tsr1269
I don't understand why you keep making comparisons. If you feel that the SS should exist on it's own merits, then make that argument. If not, then you have no argument.

Constant referrals to Norfolk or Yorkshire will not change the fact that Mandatory Palestine was a country. It may have been the territory of the British Empire but it was a country all the same, hence why it has borders.

I must say, looking back on that, you can use Norfolk all you want but it shall remain that Mandatory Palestine was a country within the British Empire, similar to how Norfolk and Yorkshire are counties within the UK and London is a city within the UK.


How does your argument make Palestine a country?


It was a mandate, precisely because it wasn't a country, this is honestly like arguing with a retarded 10 years old's pet dog
Original post by tsr1269
More whataboutery! Damn man, you make me cry....with laughter.

I shall repost and hope that you have the decency to answer:

When the Mandate dissolved, did the SS "inherit" the whole of the Mandate or part of the Mandate? If the SS was not formed "from part of a country", from what was it formed from?


Israel was formed out of part of the Mandate.

Now, I don't consider the Mandate to be a country but you evidently do. But the definition of "country" that you have given so far would either mean that any state formed on the West Bank would be "from part of a country" or else you agree that Israel was not formed out of part of a country.

I realise you don't want to answer questions that expose your position to ridicule but I will try again:

If a state of Palestine is created in the West Bank would that be formed "from part of a country" or not?
Original post by tsr1269
But you would vote for a party who state in their election manifesto that they would "crush and kill all the Islamists" even though the Islamists may be 12,000km away, no?


very few would actually put that in their election manifesto, but if those islamists ultimatly tried to threaten the west, then i would support the policy, dependant on the economics behind it
Original post by yo radical one
How does your argument make Palestine a country?

It was a mandate, precisely because it wasn't a country, this is honestly like arguing with a retarded 10 years old's pet dog


Then please explain to me why the Mandate document is littered with the term "country"?

"The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion."

"An appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the establishment of the Jewish national home and the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of the Administration to assist and take part in the development of the country."

"The Administration of Palestine shall take all necessary measures to safeguard the interests of the community in connection with the development of the country, and, subject to any international obligations accepted by the Mandatory, shall have full power to provide for public ownership or control of any of the natural resources of the country or of the public works, services and utilities established or to be established therein. It shall introduce a land system appropriate to the needs of the country, having regard, among other things, to the desirability of promoting the close settlement and intensive cultivation of the land."

"The Administration may arrange with the Jewish agency mentioned in Article 4 to construct or operate, upon fair and equitable terms, any public works, services and utilities, and to develop any of the natural resources of the country, in so far as these matters are not directly undertaken by the Administration. Any such arrangements shall provide that no profits distributed by such agency, directly or indirectly, shall exceed a reasonable rate of interest on the capital, and any further profits shall be utilised by it for the benefit of the country in a manner approved by the Administration."

"The Administration of Palestine may organist on a voluntary basis the forces necessary for the preservation of peace and order, and also for the defence of the country, subject, however, to the supervision of the Mandatory, but shall not use them for purposes other than those above specified save with the consent of the Mandatory. Except for such purposes, no military, naval or air forces shall be raised or maintained by the Administration of Palestine."

"Subject as aforesaid and to the other provisions of this mandate, the Administration of Palestine may, on the advice of the Mandatory, impose such taxes and customs duties as it may consider necessary, and take such steps as it may think best to promote the development of the natural resources of the country and to safeguard the interests of the population. It may also, on the advice of the Mandatory, conclude a special customs agreement with any State the territory of which in 1914 was wholly included in Asiatic Turkey or Arabia."

"No antiquity may leave the country without an export licence from the said Department."

Please help just not me, but others as well, understand exactly what "country" it refers to in the document if not Mandatory Palestine?
Original post by Meenglishnogood
very few would actually put that in their election manifesto, but if those islamists ultimatly tried to threaten the west, then i would support the policy, dependant on the economics behind it


But that's you supporting something "7000km" away?

So is it only you who is allowed to support something 7000km away or do you just don't like Muslims?

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