Father's educational achievements strongest indicator of childrens' academic success

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How do people who are arguing this is due to culture, parental encouragement, and parental wealth respond to the result of twin studies that show the success of children more strongly correlates to that of the biological parent than the adoptive parents? Is it not more likely to be merely the result of inherited intelligence?

I don't dispute this at all, but I have doubts that people can intuitively know complex mathematics and ideas like 'democracy' that people didn't know for centuries without assistance.

Reply 81

Observatory

Original post by DErasmus

I don't dispute this at all, but I have doubts that people can intuitively know complex mathematics and ideas like 'democracy' that people didn't know for centuries without assistance.

Intelligence is roughly a measure of the speed at which people acquire new knowledge, and the maximum complexity of that knowledge. Being born with a higher intelligence does not mean being born with all the knowledge that it could one day be used to acquire.

Reply 82

Xenorebrem

Original post by Observatory

I would say its more learning and understanding rather than acquiring. Memory is a small component of overall intelligence.

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Reply 83

DErasmus

Original post by Observatory

Social factors will effect that though won't they?

Reply 84

Observatory

Original post by Xenorebrem

I would say its more learning and understanding rather than acquiring. Memory is a small component of overall intelligence.

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I didn't say anything about intelligence being limited to memory.

DErasmus

Social factors will effect that though won't they?

If you think so, is that because you have measured them and excluded alternative causations, or is it just a dogma? The evidence I have seen suggests that intelligence is predominantly genetic.

Reply 85

bahonsi

My dad got good grades ( American Equivalent) Studied economics and is now an IB

My mum I would say is the most academic of the pair all A's in O Level and A Level. 1st in her Med degree, she's now a physiatrist.

I would say they both influenced me to work hard academically, I applied for Med School didn't get in far from perfect grades, then decided to go down the IB route and study Economics and Accounting.

But then my older sister is the only one who despite going to a Private school Failed her GCSEs and didn't progress onto A Levels got married and now lives happily in a big house with a wealthy man, so I guess women do tend to marry up, and men would prefer to marry down, I presume it makes them feel more superior as they like the role of the breadwinner. so despite my sister not making it academically the ideology both parents invoked onto me and my siblings about success is the main reason we all work hard everyday.

Reply 86

Xenorebrem

Original post by bahonsi

Lol the last sentence doesn't fit in at all with the rest of the story I'm afraid.

Reply 87

bahonsi

Original post by Xenorebrem

Lol the last sentence doesn't fit in at all with the rest of the story I'm afraid.

Haha, am just saying despite having both Parents with great academical success, not all children follow in the footsteps. So there are anomalies. In my case my sister. Maybe out of rebellion who knows but parents do have an impact on their children's academical choices but that's not always the case.

Edit: And something as simple as values is worth more, that what grades your parent had. You could have a parent without Olevels but a success with their children academically as a result of simple values they live by, in our case "there are many Roads to the top of the mountain" in theory you can become rich one way or the other.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 88

Xenorebrem

Original post by bahonsi

Yes understand what you said about values. It's the working hard bit that was confusing. I'm sure that if your sister had intended to do well, she would have worked hard and passed.

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Reply 89

Xenorebrem

Btw I can sort of relate as my parents passed those values onto me and my sibling, it turned out fine for me but... :dontknow:

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 90

bahonsi

Original post by Xenorebrem

That's exactly what I thought, she just didn't show effort in her studies, but she got there in the End. Besides everyone's priorities are different. And yes Values are more important then stick with you and pretty much guide you, but that is also subjective.

Reply 91

Noble.

Not really that surprising (although the difference between mother/father is) although, personally, I found my dad living in a council flat on benefits pretty good motivation to not end up in the same situation :lol:

Reply 92

Felicity Smoak

Neither of my parents have qualifications but both are successful entrepreneurs and I am now a postgraduate student. My father is incredibly intelligent but he's just not academic smart. He rarely went to school as he found it boring and not challenging so would instead go and work for people whilst getting taught at home.

Reply 93

Felicity Smoak

Original post by Observatory

Many argue intelligence in the way many people believe doesn't even exist. Others argue multiple intelligences exist and that is why different people excel in different areas because they're more intelligent in one area than another. All of this is open to debate as they're nothing more than theories.

Reply 94

SuperHeroStudent

Considering the fact that neither of my parents were university educated and lived and I grew up on low income, I'd have to disagree that this is a universally true theory. I am studying at the University of Kent, a respected university, and have already worked in Parliament and my local council as part of my ambition to one day become an MP despite my - to say the least - modest upbringing. I think it more of a holistic thing when you consider a child's success. Area they live in, parent's income and occupation, how many siblings, cultural and social factors such as bullying and other psychological factors such as attractiveness (which play a part in confidence and employer's desirability of you). In short, there are way too many variables. Just my take on it.

Reply 95

scrotgrot

Original post by ChaoticButterfly

Well my dad was a science grad that worked in a science based industry. I'm somewhat emulating him. It's a case of if he can do it then so can I.

I think this might be a factor, if not with academic attainment (girls value that more) then with job/salary. I certainly feel keenly that I will have wasted my privilege and failed the family if I don’t do better than my dad. If I do worse, I will have been riding on his coat-tails, and will be deserving of no respect for my position in life, even if it is still fairly good in absolute terms.

I often take hints from the aristocrats on thinking about your role in the family's long-term success; they're the experts, their entire business model is based on it. If this "outdo your dad" philosophy were applied three or four generations in a row, imagine how the family's star could rise.

Reply 96

Noble.

Original post by SuperHeroStudent

Obviously it's not a universally true theory, that isn't how statistics works. The article says children are 7.5 times less likely to succeed if their father failed to succeed, not that children categorically do not succeed if their father failed to succeed (which would also make the "7.5 times less likely" statement completely nonsensical).

Reply 97

lamp-y

inb4 "mum left school at 13 with half an O-Level in textiles, dad worked on a building site from the age of 18 months, I'm off to do maths at Cambridge with 8 A*s at A-Level, I'm special"

(I would point out that this website is called "The Student Room" – it's hardly surprising that most people on here are bright, motivated students.)

Thanks to Puddles the Monkey for telling us about this report – a beautiful example of how time spent on TSR isn't necessarily wasted.

And the contents of the report are very interesting indeed: I think the father/mother gap is down to the man's breadwinner status in the family and the woman marrying upwards socially. Is society sexist or is this the natural order of things? Probably a bit of both.

Reply 98

lamp-y

Original post by Rinsed

For someone apparently going to Cambridge, this is basically unreadable.

Well said.

Original post by King of Evil

Just because you are too dense to read what I have carefully typed out does not make me a poor communicator. **** off.

I'm afraid Rinsed is right, you communicate poorly through writing. I'm not sure that syntax and punctuation are really your problem, it's more that your tone is a bit 'off' and you don't write lucidly. Here are a couple more sentences that you have mangled; each is followed by a superior version of my own:

"I took a disliking to the idea that most people view my circumstances and expect very little from me as a result."

("I don't like the fact that many people expect less of me academically because of my background")

"It's almost as if human reasoning based on specious generalisation is too hastily applied..."

(It really took me a few seconds to work this one out, but here we go: "I'm really special")

I just hope you're doing a STEM subject at Cambridge – I'll see you there in half a week!

Reply 99

lamp-y

Original post by ziu

The statement probably only applies to everyday, banal, WASP families.

I find that quite offensive. You seem to be implying that white, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant families are banal – why?

My dad comes from a remote Indian village where no-one had even completed school up to the age of 15. He holds a master's in economics (from the UK), a fellow Chartered Accountant. I'm hoping to work in pure mathematics and theoretical physics and do part time poetry/philosophy. My father has only influenced my education in this way: "Do what you want, provided you don't get below D grades, I'll be happy". Never has he sat down with me, paid for tutors or anything of that kind. Maybe we're all different like each grain of sand.

Ramanujan, perhaps the greatest pure mathematician of the 20th century who compiled thousands of dazzling theorems came from a family of village workers (his granddad had work as a clerk in a clothes shop). Carl Friedrich Gauss, the prince of Mathematics was born to illiterate parents who didn't even have the ability to write down when he was born. Gauss is probably in the top 3 Mathematicians to have ever lived.