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Germany tell UK to leave EU if they want to control immigration

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Original post by nulli tertius
I agree that this is impressionistic. The examples I selected were to make a clear point. UKIP and its supporters simply play the numbers game with trade whilst the real issue is about what trade is likely to be untouched by any change in ours status with the EU and what is likely to be significantly affected (either by relocation of production or by tariff and non-tariff barriers to trade). The whole history of the EU is of jockeying for position to exploit any trade advantages. The sheer size differential between the UK and the EU makes it more likely that we would be the loser in any trade war.


I agree that is what the EU is about. I don't agree that:

1. the players actually understand what they are doing

or that

2. the consequences of any practicable actions they may take are likely to be significant

The clear evidence of the world as it stands is that countries with similar internal institutions but very different trade arrangements all converge on about the same level of prosperity.
This is the real reason why UK wont leave the EU and cameron won't do that.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9810334/Barack-Obama-Britain-should-stay-in-the-EU.html

bow to your master! peasants.
Good, let us leave....provides us with no benefits at all.

People will say "trade"...but hmm...yeah. I'd think Frau Merkel would stop Siemens or BMW from selling stuff here.....
Original post by Reluire
Not really because the UK knew what it signed up to when it joined the EU. The UK has no more right than any other member of the EU to demand special privileges under the guise of reform. If reform is to be made on immigration, it has to be across the whole of the EU and not just in the UK. That, or the UK leaves the EU. There isn't an in-between; we're either completely in or completely out.

When the UK joined the EU when it was the EEC back in 1973, it was long before the freedom of movement directives had been introduced.
Then it's sorted, UKIP is the only route out of this German run federal joke that is the EU
Original post by pinkteddyx64
When the UK joined the EU when it was the EEC back in 1973, it was long before the freedom of movement directives had been introduced.


Nope. Free movement was established in the 1957 Treaty of Rome. For the UK, we gained free movement in 1973.

The difference is that back then the EEC largely contained just western European countries. Before 1973 we also had some kind of agreement with Australia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_movement_for_workers
Original post by nulli tertius
Clearly we do not have the same outlook as Germany on freedom of movement. What you are doing is choosing the things that ought to be important to you if you are Germany. However, it is Germany that will choose what is important to it.

On trade the key issue is not the present volume of trade but how much of it will remain if Britain leaves the EU. How many Brits will still buy BMWs if they come with a heavy import duty? How many Germans will switch to Irish rather than Scotch whisky?

How does Britain wishing to prevent immigrants affect Germany?

Answer: it doesn't/they'll get more

So it's fine for us to have all the immigrants, but not germany.....
Original post by The_Last_Melon
So this is the democracy of the EU, if an entire nation wants different policies they have to leave?


No less democratic than individual Britons deciding they want their own laws.
Original post by GnomeMage
This is the real reason why UK wont leave the EU and cameron won't do that.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9810334/Barack-Obama-Britain-should-stay-in-the-EU.html

bow to your master! peasants.


Meh, it's not just America. Britain also represents a gateway to European trade for a lot of Asia - but only so long as it remains part of the EU.
Original post by billydisco
How does Britain wishing to prevent immigrants affect Germany?

Answer: it doesn't/they'll get more

So it's fine for us to have all the immigrants, but not germany.....


The last stats I saw showed that Germany was the most popular destination when it came to EU migration.
Original post by TurboCretin
No less democratic than individual Britons deciding they want their own laws.

well isn't that the point of democracy...people vote in politicians who change the law for the favour of the people
Original post by TurboCretin
Meh, it's not just America. Britain also represents a gateway to European trade for a lot of Asia - but only so long as it remains part of the EU.


If you think that trade agreements are the important factor rather than internal institutions, how do you explain Singapore being a bigger financial centre than anywhere in India or the PRC? Bigger even than Tokyo!

If you think that being part of a Big Bloc is what produces prosperity, Singapore should be one of the poorest countries in the world when in fact it's about the richest.
Original post by InnerTemple
The last stats I saw showed that Germany was the most popular destination when it came to EU migration.

Then what business is it of Germany's?
Original post by billydisco
Then what business is it of Germany's?


Because, to simplify it colossally, there are plenty of British engineers in Munich or Stuttgart, and plenty of German bankers in the City.

They believe it is mutually positive that our populations can work in each other's country, and the other 25 MS, without restrictions. If we want out of that, that's fine, but you can't expect to be allowed to play if you won't play by the rules.
Incorrect. The UK comes third in the ranking of Germany top trading partners. On the other hand Germany is the main importer of UK goods and so this shows how UK in terms of balancing their trade balance are more dependent than Germany.It would be foolish to undermine UK's role in the EU by stating that Germany would be content and not negatively affected by the exit of the UK it but I'm sure that UK would be more negatively impacted than Germany. :smile:
We can have our wealth built on the imperial profits made from our British empire which exploited several countries of its natural resources and labour. We can have multinational firms installed in developing countries exploiting low paid workers and often depleting local communities from their own natural resources which once they used to survive. We can call these 'foreigners' to reconstruct Britain after the world war II and many doctors and nurses who have come to Britain to aid this country recover from the shortage of Labor. We can move freely to other countries without a job offer.

There are so many things we can do and so many things we have benefited from others, but when these people are of no use we discard them Britain was built of others country wealth and often not democratically.


Original post by The_Last_Melon
well isn't that the point of democracy...people vote in politicians who change the law for the favour of the people


Emphasis on individual Britons. The UK wanting to change one of the fundamental principles of an institution with 28 member states isn't enough by itself.
Original post by Observatory
If you think that trade agreements are the important factor rather than internal institutions, how do you explain Singapore being a bigger financial centre than anywhere in India or the PRC? Bigger even than Tokyo!

If you think that being part of a Big Bloc is what produces prosperity, Singapore should be one of the poorest countries in the world when in fact it's about the richest.


I am simply reporting. You can question the wisdom of the Chinese, but questioning whether they in fact think what they say they think is another matter.
Original post by Le Nombre
Because, to simplify it colossally, there are plenty of British engineers in Munich or Stuttgart, and plenty of German bankers in the City.

They believe it is mutually positive that our populations can work in each other's country, and the other 25 MS, without restrictions. If we want out of that, that's fine, but you can't expect to be allowed to play if you won't play by the rules.

This isnt about engineers and bankers and you know it- its about unskilled Eastern and Southern Europeans leaching from our system and putting massive burden on education, housing and NHS.
Original post by fabio micolo
We can have our wealth built on the imperial profits made from our British empire which exploited several countries of its natural resources and labour. We can have multinational firms installed in developing countries exploiting low paid workers and often depleting local communities from their own natural resources which once they used to survive. We can call these 'foreigners' to reconstruct Britain after the world war II and many doctors and nurses who have come to Britain to aid this country recover from the shortage of Labor. We can move freely to other countries without a job offer.

There are so many things we can do and so many things we have benefited from others, but when these people are of no use we discard them Britain was built of others country wealth and often not democratically.



Exactly- we do what is best for ourselves. Dont like it? Sod off.

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