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Doctor Who - Discussion Thread III (no untagged future spoilers)

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No no, I GOT that bit, but Clara was told to "Find his parents" and it's like "How?"

I don't think she's done it yet: I thought that's what she was building up to tell the Doctor about at the end. Was going to ask for his help, but backed out after hearing about Gallifrey.

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Reply 4301

Dalek1099

Original post by Hype en Ecosse

This takes a bit of NuWho history to explain! We're led to believe that between the 8th and 9th incarnations of the Doctor, he was forced to use a weapon that destroyed Gallifrey, Skaro, the Daleks and the Time Lords in order to save the universe. These events became "time locked" (you couldn't revisit their history by travelling through time and changing things). Turns out, as we saw in the 50th anniversary, the Doctor with his incarnations managed to save Gallifrey from destruction and transport it off into another dimension.

The last we saw of the Master, he was killed in the series 4 finale. Thanks to Gallifrey not actually being destroyed an earlier/later (wibbly wobbly timey wimey, we're not sure how this works), the Master is still kicking about on that planet in another dimension (hence he was never actually killed). He hijacks a TARDIS, finds his way out of that dimension and into our one, and boom! He's back.

Regeneration has its limits. It seems that if you vaporize a Time Lord, they can't regenerate, which you'd expect since they're now a pile of dust. :tongue:

If the shot just killed her (no vaporisation), she would've regenerated, unless you shot her again during the regeneration process.

We still don't know how the Master was able to stop dying though because The Master was half dead and half alive and literally splitting himself apart not even the Gate which could change whole worlds could save him so we don't know how The Master was able to cure himself and regenerate,surely since the Master died in The Last of the Timelords all of his regeneration energy should have died with him so no regenerations left and not even regeneration would solve the half dead or alive thing or The Master would have regenerated in The End of Time to stop it.Its clear that Moffat forgot most of what happened in The End of Time, you could tell that through how he handled the 50th Anniversary because from The End of Time we know that The Doctor wouldn't save the Timelords because they had become too corrupted and dangerous and were trying to destroy the universe again Moffat's forgot about this and tried to pretend the Timelords are nice.

Reply 4302

The_Internet

Original post by Snagprophet

Also, unless they're lying about people being concious while dead, that concept makes no sense. People feel pain because of their nervous system. If their nerves have rotted, decomposed or disconnected due to the body being dead, then how does someone feel pain? Also how are the people in the matrix thing able to maintain a connection to their bodies? I know Doctor Who uses fictional and/or questionable concepts and actions but this just sounds incredibly retarded.

That depends on the religion you follow. ie: In Islam, the soul can feel pain like a living person (which is why cremation is USUALLY banned), though we'd be going on a slight religious tangent instead there!

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 4303

Kool_Panda

Original post by Hype en Ecosse

I'm fairly sure she was building up to tell the Doctor about Danny not coming back. The boy would have been a side product of the conversation but that clearly wasn't the most troubling issue on her mind.

Reply 4304

paddyman4

I did really like Missy, she was hilarious and chilling and tragic all in one.

I do think the two-parter was constructed a little messily though. I would have found it interesting to explore the doctor/master relationship a bit more. Have some flashbacks to them as children to emphasise the friend-turned-enemy theme. Or it would be amazing to have a little scene at the start of the second part that shows John Simm escaping Gallifrey and regenerating into Missy in the process (probably as the time lord tried to stop him). They could have accommodated this by removing some of the filler - the doctor being kidnapped and then nicely asked to be leader made no sense, for example, and the lava scene in part 1 was great until it felt a bit insulting when you realised none of it happened.

I also wasn't sure I liked how quickly the doctor was ready to kill the Master, in stark contrast to Tennant's doctor trying to save the Master after everything. He's just thrown away an army because he doesn't trust he has the right to make those kind of decisions, and then immediately makes one of those decisions.

I'm a bit sick of Clara now, they've turned her into a very unsympathetic character this series. Threatening the doctor to save Danny, threatening to hit the doctor if he speaks for her, forcing the doctor to kill, telling the doctor to immediately come and kill Danny or otherwise basically go to hell...I know they briefly mentioned her being a control freak but it really makes me stop rooting for her. Also the reason for Missy putting her and the doctor together seemed pretty flimsy.

Reply 4305

St. Brynjar

Personally I really enjoyed that. Let's be honest, packing a finale into an hour that can match Dark Water is impossible, and it showed - the Cybermen being little more than toys grated on me, as did Missy not actually having a rule-the-world plan. But compared to other series (*cough* Teselecta *cough*) it was heart-wrenching, furiously exciting and vigorously entertaining. Capaldi and Gomez were exceptional, I may have to concede that I prefer Capaldi to Eccleston as the Doctor, and that's high praise indeed from me. He just encapsulates the tragic hero perfectly.

Danny's death was handled well, if a little too long. To everyone complaining: imagine if he'd lived. He died and the woman who loved him had to watch.

+1 for the Lethbridge-Stewart reference, they've been subtle with him in a fair few episodes now so allowing him to take centre stage and get a proper goodbye as part of the storyline is pleasing.

Reply 4306

mrfletch

Why did Missy try to kill the Doctor with the whole blowing up the plane thing if the plan was to give him an army?

Reply 4307

Jean-Luc Picard

very cleverly done, really liked it, wonder if we have truly seen the last of the master though, they always return somehow! Gallifrey must be out there as well, how else could the master/missy have got back to earth? will Clara and the Doctor get back together as well? they both lied before they parted, both thinking the other was about to do the same, so sad!

Spoiler

Reply 4308

Andy98

Original post by de_monies

Think I've said before I do quite like emotion in TV/movies (Whatever that might be - pain, love, whatever - the acting seems a little more "real")

Yeah me too, but the last time anything on a screen got to me like that was Mufassah dying

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Reply 4309

cryptixla

One problem for me is I can't tell the difference between Missy and Moriarty (I don't think moff can either). And Danny, he had so much potential for the first few episodes but he just turned out to be something Moff use to point out that 'Oh the Doctor is dark and quite abit of a douche..HE'S DIFFERENT.'. The entire series has been on/off frustration..But the times when Capaldi was written properly and given the chance to shine - magic.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 4310

greeneyedgirl

Original post by Hype en Ecosse

It could've been explored a little beyond "The Master lied/was wrong", though. Missy pointed out how the Doctor hadn't bothered to look for Gallifrey, and there was no indication given that he intended to go out and find out - I would've liked at least a slight prod in that direction. Rather than "oop, well, it's not there, better go lie to Clara so she has no incentive to travel with me any more." It was heartwrenching seeing his anguish and anger, but it would've been nice to see some form of intention come out of that!

I had a quick look up at that series' finale, and it makes sense to me again, after you grant a bit of artistic liberty. :tongue:

I do think the relationship was fantastic, but it could've been explored so much more. We got a great insight into the Master's view of her relationship with the Doctor and there was great interaction between the two, but we didn't get as much exploration in the other direction.

Simm's came back because of the whole Gallifrey resurrection. I feel like it's a bit cheap if they create another loophole to bring them back! That's why I'm hoping that one the poster's above is right, and she was actually teleported rather than disintegrated (after all, since when has a Cyberman shot instantly disintegrated a Time Lord?), otherwise it's just a bit disappointing.

I was thinking on this whole Nethersphere as well - how does the clockwork automaton from episode 1 end up there without mind or soul? Are we seriously trying to say that animate objects have conscious minds (esp. after all this stuff about basic programming)/souls? Or are we saying that it has acquired the mind/soul via the harvesting of human flesh??

Urgh that made me miss Tennant so much!

Original post by getfunky!

better late than never

I've found the next companion:

Spoiler

Sorry, it's a complex process putting a new poll up so easier to just do it series by series :yep:

Original post by Tillybop

Oh here she is - the biggest Doctor Who fan, always missing trains because you fantasise about the Peter Capaldi :shakecane:

shadowdweller

burstedbubbles

axe

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 4313

BurstingBubbles

Life & Style Forum Helper

Original post by getfunky!

Oh here she is - the biggest Doctor Who fan, always missing trains because you fantasise about the Peter Capaldi :shakecane:

Axe

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Reply 4314

syrettd

Pretty sure Missy is still alive. The flash of light was blue, that's teleportation. Whether the Doctor did it intentionally or not, I don't know.

I'm going to be in the incredibly tiny minority here and say that Danny should have forgotten about that damn kid and just come back. I started to really like Danny! He was cool and calm and could handle anything. Also really wish Kate had died. I don't like her and I was so happy when she fell out of the plane.

Reply 4315

Andy98

Original post by syrettd

You're not alone there

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Reply 4316

Miladrises

I think moffat has destroyed doctor who. If i dealt with the 2 parters then i would.

-Make danny die still
- Have the doctor refuse to save danny
- Clara leaves the doctor in an epitomy of anger
- missy reveal herself as clara in the future
- Missy(clara) fights the doctor
- Doctor defeats missy (clara) and realises what having someone travel with him do and thus no longer has a companion
- Leading to a lonely dark doctor who is nearly as monstrous as the master and he meets the master in season 9

Reply 4317

Andy98

Original post by Miladrises

Now that would be good!

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Reply 4318

Teddysmith123

Original post by Miladrises

And they go in search of gallifrey together. Now that would be an epic season!

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Reply 4319

Feefifofum

I thought that was a good finale, though there was too much packed into it. I liked having the Brigadier return, and Gomez was a great choice as the Master. Even if her body was disintegrated at the end we all know the Master will come back someday, somehow - this is Doctor Who. I was sad that the bespectacled UNIT scientist was killed, I liked her.

I was expecting to see something about Clara's Mum. They made a huge deal out of that relationship in the last series, with the (terrible) Rings of Akhaten leaf stuff. After all that happened, it was strange not to see her come to help her daughter. Initially I thought that's who the Brigadier cyberman was when he appeared.

I hated the very end with Santa. Not sure how on earth that could fit into a decent episode.