Doctor Who - Discussion Thread III (no untagged future spoilers)

I think moffat has destroyed doctor who. If i dealt with the 2 parters then i would.

-Make danny die still
- Have the doctor refuse to save danny
- Clara leaves the doctor in an epitomy of anger
- missy reveal herself as clara in the future
- Missy(clara) fights the doctor
- Doctor defeats missy (clara) and realises what having someone travel with him do and thus no longer has a companion
- Leading to a lonely dark doctor who is nearly as monstrous as the master and he meets the master in season 9

Missy's entire plan was formulated just to play a game with the Doctor? Silly Moffat; you're thinking of Moriarty.

I think this is genuinely the only TV episode ever (In the whole of TV) that actually brought some tears to my eyes, and that Danny Pink brought back a kid that he had killed

Though what happened to that kid?

Oh here she is - the biggest Doctor Who fan, always missing trains because you fantasise about the Peter Capaldi

Axe

Posted from TSR Mobile

That was so dumb, I genuinely thought they were going to explore guilt and regret of killing people but then it turned out all you do is simply send them back to earth. Great job. Will the disabled character magically grow their abilities again instead of showing people coping with life?

"Oh no? Done something wrong with your life? Well let's just hit the undo button, that's the only solution we can think of"

I was really hoping this would happen. What a great twist it would be for the Doctor to find out that he has been travelling with his greatest enemy all this time and had no idea. It would mean that the master changing gender actually had some relevance (other than "time lords can change gender now cos moffat said so") and would also explain a number of things about clara like why the tardis hated her (i dont think that was ever explained) as well as missy making sure she and the doctor stayed together.

This would have been so much better and much cleverer! That's also what I thought was going to happen when I saw Clara saying "Clara Oswald never existed" in the trailer, would have redeemed her Impossible Girl arc as well.
I'm still waiting for a decent Cybermen story since maybe 'The Next Doctor'. They were again pretty ineffective although on the periphery perhaps because Missy was controlling them (with a bracelet though, bit naff). I did quite like the Cyberzombies though but not so much the Iron Man inspired Cybermen that could fly. Capaldi and Gomez were terrific in their roles.
The series on the whole was a very, very mixed bag. The only episodes I thought were good were Listen, MOTOE and Flatline (so here's hoping they get Jamie Mathieson writing more episodes). The two part finale was okay though could have been amazing, likewise with the opening episode. Time Heist was also okay but the other episodes were poor. Hopefully next series is more consistent and has more two parters.

Yeah this is exactly what made me think that too!

I thought that she was gonna be revealed as The Master, I dunno how they'd make that work but I was hoping that after all this time the Doctor had been travelling with him. But no. Clara ended up being the most forgettable companions of the modern incarnation of DW

Yeah I haven't really figured out how it would work for her to be The Master and what Missy's plan would have been in that situation.

I suppose the master could have travelled back in time to make his (or her, i guess) younger self think she was human (maybe using the fobwatch thingy from before) and then make sure Clara and The Doctor stayed together in order to gain the doctor's trust. If an arc was implemented from the beginning of the series that the doctor held some kind of information or object that was key to the master's latest plan for taking over the world then this would work.

Not sure about paradoxes and stuff like that but I'm sure a real doctor who writer could work out all that to make a similar story work.


I'm also disappointed we never got to see The Master's new Tardis.

What the hell did I just watch? What was the point of the episode if the Doctor and the Master are going to end up together at the end and she hands him power over the cybermen?

Um...that was Missy's plan...what's the point of any episode if something happens at the end. This is very similar to John Simm's Master where he really wanted to see that the Doctor wasn't that different to him.

What was the point of getting on the plane if it gets destroyed a second later? Why try and kill the Doctor if the whole point is giving him an army? Was he supposed to die?

Oh...so they should have stayed on the plane the whole time? Whats the point of going to one place if they just go to another place later? They were on the plane for a good portion of the episode, no less than they were in other locations. Missy was playing with the doctor, she knows he could survive.

Also why have a metal cyberman grow from nothing using the smallest piece of dna? What happens to disembodied arms? Does that become a cyberman as well? Does this also mean that factories are henceforth negated for making cybermen?

To be fair, there are organisms who can do this and regenerate their whole body after being cut up. Have to admit, I didn't really like this idea.

Why say you've found Galifrey and then have the coordinates not lead there? Did she lie? But you said she didn't lie?

Yes...she lied, it was rather obvious from the Doctor's reaction that she lied, not everything has to be spoonfed to understand.

Also, who actually remembered the master giving Clara a phone number or anything? Why did any of this matter? Most of this episode seemed to be people standing there and doing nothing nor advancing any plot at all.

Many remembered, I know I did, and if you didn't then that's why there was a flashback. This mattered because this is what caused Clara to meet the doctor. Why does Doctor Who have to be all action sequences? Some mature, chilling talking is just as effective, or emotional.

Did missy die at the end? Did she teleport for no reason? But what did the Lethbridge Stewart do then? Did he fire an orgasm laser at her?

Who knows...that's the point. She probably did teleport but we don't know. This is reminiscent of old Doctor Who where the master died every single time and still came back. The Brigadier did fire...if it actually hit her or not we don't know, considering the light he fired was blue and her teleport, as seen in the episode, is blue.

It's just so dumb. This is what happens when you write stories about the main characters who don't reveal anything at all. Literally everything in this story is told through exposition then it tries to fake out the audience by going "ha ha fooled you, my exposition wasn't true ha ha ha".

I don't really understand you here...

I hate Moffatt. He can't write for crap any more. He can script an pre-established Sherlock Holmes story but he can't write properly.

I'm not a Moffat fan particularly since he took over as head writer but I think he's done some great episodes recently (50th anniversary, listen and this two parter). I enjoyed it

Plus, that ending mid credits was so stupid it's like watching a Cbeebies show, jangling keys in the face of stupid children that find it entertaining.

To be fair, it was a fun little scene for the kids getting ready for Christmas, especially after the rather dark stories recently. It's not that different to David Tennant's little series epilogues.


That was so dumb, I genuinely thought they were going to explore guilt and regret of killing people but then it turned out all you do is simply send them back to earth. Great job. Will the disabled character magically grow their abilities again instead of showing people coping with life?

It did explore that, the whole series has explored whether the doctor is a good man and what happens when you travel with him... Clara has really been changed by him. The dead (bar one) weren't sent back to earth...they died in the end, no return.

"Oh no? Done something wrong with your life? Well let's just hit the undo button, that's the only solution we can think of"

Where was the undo button in this episode?

Doesn't help Danny is a complete idiot for working with the Doctor instead using his common sense and punch him in the face for being a complete idiot about him and being pointlessly insensitive.

Danny didn't work with the doctor, he spent a good amount of episodes showing Clara what sort of man he is...very clearly not really liking the doctor.

Um...that was Missy's plan...what's the point of any episode if something happens at the end. This is very similar to John Simm's Master where he really wanted to see that the Doctor wasn't that different to him.

Well the previous episode ended with the doctor and missy together so why not give him the device then? They went through capturing her, getting on a plane, have the plane blown up by the same person who intended the Doctor to not die and get control of the army. Then they go to the graveyard. The only difference is Danny and Clara is there.


Oh...so they should have stayed on the plane the whole time? Whats the point of going to one place if they just go to another place later? They were on the plane for a good portion of the episode, no less than they were in other locations. Missy was playing with the doctor, she knows he could survive.

Then this is just stupid. Getting on the plane added nothing other than filler. What was the point of making him president? What was the point of fangirl who I'd already forgotten about? Why knock missy out and then make her concious again if the Doctor needed another drug to recover from the same drug? Playing the Doctor? Why delay giving him an army?


Yes...she lied, it was rather obvious from the Doctor's reaction that she lied, not everything has to be spoonfed to understand.

They showed the view from the doorway. Imagine if the TARDIS was facing away from the planet. It was not clear what was going on, especially how the narrative seemed to hype up that this time the master was being different when really it had no pay off at all. At least show us there's nothing there rather than just a limited view of empty space with no room for questions like 'you sure it's not behind you?'


Many remembered, I know I did, and if you didn't then that's why there was a flashback. This mattered because this is what caused Clara to meet the doctor. Why does Doctor Who have to be all action sequences? Some mature, chilling talking is just as effective, or emotional.

What was the point of missy hooking those two up? It had no bearing on the episode at all

Just because something is dialogue that does not automatically make it mature. So much of it was talking without actually saying anything at all. I never said I wanted action sequences. Being an action sequence does not make something exciting just because the makers were willing the audience to be excited, like with the jump out of the plane it didn't feel right at all. The music was completely off compared to the tone of the narrative at that point. Dialogue refused to advance the plot and people took so long to do something.


Who knows...that's the point. She probably did teleport but we don't know. This is reminiscent of old Doctor Who where the master died every single time and still came back. The Brigadier did fire...if it actually hit her or not we don't know, considering the light he fired was blue and her teleport, as seen in the episode, is blue.

Well a laser hits her from the side. I don't know why they have to disintegrate though, then everyone looks round and like a child with ADHD they completely forget what happened as the writers attempt to distract whichever demographic this was aimed at with the random character who vanished earlier and wasn't addressed but people were surely surprised she died until she was used to distract from what happened to missy


I don't really understand you here...

They quite clearly hyped up that missy wasn't lying about Galifrey and then the writer is like "aha fooled you it wasn't there". I honestly had no idea why he was suddenly believing her out of nowhere it seemed so out of character.


I'm not a Moffat fan particularly since he took over as head writer but I think he's done some great episodes recently (50th anniversary, listen and this two parter). I enjoyed it

Listen was okay, 50th was good. He can write episodes but as a head writer it seems like a mess then he does "series arcs"(aka a recurring mcguffin thrown at the end of each episode of a series which will related to the finale) very poorly. I'm still mad about the whole hyped "oh no the Doctor's going to inevitably die and it will be impossible to change it" arc in the sixth series which was explained by the magic robot which turns into anything and then acts like he fooled us when really it was a deus ex machina.


To be fair, it was a fun little scene for the kids getting ready for Christmas, especially after the rather dark stories recently. It's not that different to David Tennant's little series epilogues.

Well that's just another example of tone bipolar. First they end with a solumn tone, then it's 'la la la la la I'm all happy la la! Oh kids, how could you be so stupid to think the episode was over because the credits came up' nonsense. Oh, it's like with David Tennant is it? Fourth wall dialogue? 'We can't end it there, gotta shoehorn in the Christmas special character' They literally say this.


Where was the undo button in this episode?

In the form of that bracelet? Which allowed people to come back from the dead? But in the series only had missy use it to go into the matrix but apparently either everyone's still dead in there or it literally allows people to come back from the afterlife in physical form and, for no reason, it can only be used once. Damn it sounds so stupid describing it.


Danny didn't work with the doctor, he spent a good amount of episodes showing Clara what sort of man he is...very clearly not really liking the doctor.

He was quite happy to stay around him. It makes no sense why anyone would and also why the Doctor has it in for him for no reason. Maybe if they'd had Danny on an adventure and he messes up and this causes the Doctor to hate him, but there's no reason at all in this case.

Please read my replies