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Haha, oh Wilf! If you like that song than at least you can say you know four Welsh words..."Ar hyd y nos". Although, I am slightly disappointed you've favoured Swansea as your favourite Welsh team over Wrexham. We were once considered the second best in Wales. How times have changed! :rolleyes:

I think 'araf' means slow and 'moron' means carrot. 6 :cool:

(?)

That song sounds quality being sung though, used to always hear it during Swans matches and wondered what it was.

Reply 8181

Eboracum

Original post by jam277

I like Sixth form because it has that inbetweeners feel to it.

Were you an Inbetweener at school? I saw the second film last week, so funny. :colondollar:

Original post by IceJJFish(II)

Funny thing is Wilfred argues you have to be at the match or a parade to have a part on that trophy. He also argues that Villa are a big club. I'll wager he wasn't born when European cups were won by Villa, so he supports a small club :laugh:

I'm not sure exactly what Wilf is arguing, I personally wouldn't accept that at all. In the 2012/2013 season, my first year at uni I didn't go to a single game, but I'm more than happy and make no apology about milking other fans and giving out pure banter. Not everyone has the circumstances to go to games. It depends on your situation. I went to about 40 home United games with my old man, from 2004/2005 to 2011/2012, haven't been since. We had a phone call when I was in college offering us season tickets, but Dad would have had to paid for mine so we couldn't do it. Since I've been at uni not had the chance, although I've got a free ticket Tuesday night as my mate and his dad have season tickets but his dad can't go, will be my first since Alex left.

Original post by Wilfred Little

I honestly can't remember many Blues fans in school at all. Best mate from primary and then from secondary (two different lads) were both noses though. Probably why I don't really despise them, the fans I know personally which is not many have always been sound enough really :confused:

. I can remember a couple more around the time of our first PL derby but decent enough lads. A Baggie here, a Dingle there and the rest were majority Villa fans and then the MU/Liverpool fans.

I remember when Baggies stayed up, the time before the 'great escape' in '05 so don't really mind them either as again I never grew up with their dickhead fans.

If that was 2005 my mates were at that. 2-0 to Blues?

Yeah it's weird. I don't think I really understood the concept of leagues below the Premier League till I got to secondary school, literally everyone at my infant and junior school was Villa/MU/LIV/ARS/CHE and Newcastle United, and that was it. Didn't meet any Blues/Wolves/WBA until secondary school.

Remember when Blues beat Villa in the first year they were up? Enkleman, school the next day was unreal haha.

I seem to remember Birmingham losing 1-0 at St. James Park, I could be wrong though. Can't beat away games pal!

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 8182

ra-ra-ra

Original post by Wilfred Little

I think 'araf' means slow and 'moron' means carrot. 6 :cool:

(?)

That song sounds quality being sung though, used to always hear it during Swans matches and wondered what it was.

You are correct, you’ll be fluent in no time. :wink:

Moron is such a ridiculous word for carrot though. When you have the likes of cenoura (Portuguese) and zanahoria (Spanish), moron just sounds awful. I find Welsh such a horrible language though. Although slang, there’s still a lot of people who call their microwave “popty-ping” and when I was in school I was taught to say jellyfish as “pysgod wibbly wobbly”. Awful. Pili-pala for butterfly is another awful one.

Reply 8183

Fideo

Welsh is a pointless language tbh

Reply 8184

IceJJFish(II)

Original post by Fideo

Welsh is a pointless language tbh

Fots.

I agree though. Don't get why people strive so much for sectarianism.

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Reply 8185

sr90

Volunteer Team

Original post by IceJJFish(II)

Big club isn't simply defined by amount of trophies. Villa have been nowhere near for years, a joke club that even Leeds fans berate, they absolutely love the collapse of the club. Chelsea have won leagues, CL and domestic cups in last decade, and have been a CL club for a long time. Chelsea have a larger fanbase in addition.

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If that's your argument then why do you put them above City?

Reply 8186

IceJJFish(II)

Original post by sr90

If that's your argument then why do you put them above City?

City have fluked 2 leagues, won pointless League Cup, fluked a FA cup against Stoke and are atrocious for the money they've spent in correlation to league and European performances. They also have a fraud manager. Chelsea have been (fairly) consistent over the last decade.

It's a done to death argument but personally I'm not bothered whether a club won leagues in the 19th century and then none after, and certainly don't classify them above a team who's won trophies in recent history where the standard of football has improved.

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Reply 8187

Eboracum

Original post by sr90

If that's your argument then why do you put them above City?

Football changes very quickly. I think most players or younger fans would argue Chelsea and City are bigger than your Villas, Leeds, Forest any of those.

I'd argue it's about economic factors: market exposure, fan base, corporate sponsorship deals, and of course famous names playing for you. I find it hard to accept that Villa or Leeds are bigger than Chelsea or City. Perhaps with older people, but not younger generations. You can't live in the past, you've got to keep achieving, which is my worry about us now Ferguson has gone.

Saying that, I still think Liverpool are the second biggest club in England and they haven't won anything significant for years. Maybe they just won so much they can sustain it for longer. But I regard Manchester United as clearly the biggest club in England and quite possibly the world, and a 7th place finish doesn't change that for me.

Reply 8188

Lyrical Prodigy

Oh yeah Wilf lol @ the Umbro joggers thing :lol:

Reply 8189

username917703

Original post by Eboracum

You can't live in the past, you've got to keep achieving, which is my worry about us now Ferguson has gone.

Saying that, I still think Liverpool are the second biggest club in England and they haven't won anything significant for years.

Ebo you're not making sense. The only way to quantify it is trophy wins. Trophies are king. That's what everyone is in it for. In terms of trophies we are bigger than both.

Other factors are far too inconsistent and unreliable and often hard to quantify.

Also sorry to piss on your chips but Real Madrid are unquestionably the biggest club in the world.

Reply 8190

Fideo

Trophies are the main thing but how recently they were won is also relevant. A league title from 2014 is worth more than one from 1895.

Reply 8191

Eboracum

Original post by Wilfred Little

I don't agree. Trophies aren't king. They are just one of a symbiosis of factors. The trouble is, as we've talked about before, your view of football is purely on the pitch, and with working class West Ham fans down the Nags Head talking about the game. But it's changed. We now live in an era of the primacy of the markets, men in suits and corporations. Football now, is primarily a business, or at least, it's just as much a business as it is a sport.

I'm not convinced those things are hard to measure. You look at how many fans clubs have, you look at the size of their corporate deals, these are other ways. I could argue trophies is hard to measure, because at what point in the past does that big club nature start to erode away? Just because teams won something in the 80s, they're not a massive club now, you have to sustain that. I was surprised to hear Jam call Chelsea a small club. I think you make a case for Chelsea as the third biggest club in Britain pretty much solely based on the last ten years. With the trophies won at the Bridge has come lucrative sponsorship deals, market exposure and a global fan base.

How many people aged 15-25 in Japan, China, Singapore and Taiwan have heard of Aston Villa and Leeds United? Probably only in the context of playing one of the teams they support, such as Chelsea or Manchester City. You might say you don't want them to support Villa, but make no mistake. I want Man United shirts on everyone in Asia. I want to see kids queuing for Mao's Mausoleum with Rooney 10 on a Man United shirt. That means we're a big club.

You could certainly question the Manchester United/Real Madrid debate.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 8192

Ggmu!

Original post by Fideo

Trophies are the main thing but how recently they were won is also relevant. A league title from 2014 is worth more than one from 1895.

Unless you support the club that won it in 1895, then that's more relevant.

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Reply 8193

Fideo

Original post by Ggmu!

Unless you support the club that won it in 1895, then that's more relevant.

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Wilf can you confirm that you are 125 years old

Reply 8194

IceJJFish(II)

Once again Eboracum hits the nail on the head. Excellent poster.

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Reply 8195

username917703

Original post by Eboracum

How many people aged 15-25 in Japan, China, Singapore and Taiwan have heard of Aston Villa and Leeds United?

Like I pointed out, you can't quantify that. I think you're probably underestimating Villa's worldwide support though. It doesn't compare with some other clubs, but it is pretty large.

I really couldn't give two ****s what idiots in Africa or Asia think though, having discussed football with overseas fans online the vast majority of them are clueless, their opinions mean nothing.

Reply 8196

Eboracum

Original post by Wilfred Little

Trophies are king. Do you want van Gaal out because your shares went down or because some bellstrike in Malaysia follows Man City now, or is it because you're out of the title race already?

Nobody jumps for joy when their club signs a new partnership with Korea's finest noodle maker ffs.

Like I pointed out, you can't quantify that. I think you're probably underestimating Villa's worldwide support though. It doesn't compare with some other clubs, but it is pretty large.

I really couldn't give two ****s what idiots in Africa or Asia think though, having discussed football with overseas fans online the vast majority of them are clueless, their opinions mean nothing.

Our economic strategy is working. We still have at least ten times the amount of fans in Asia as Manchester City do, despite the fact that they have won 2 of the last 3 titles, and 6 of the last 7 derbies.

I've made my anti-Van Gaal views quite clear in the MUFC thread.

Actually, noodles in Korea are terrific.

I acknowledge Aston Villa are a big club with worldwide support. I saw a Villa shirt in New York City once. I accept that. I'm just not sure as of 2014 they are bigger than Chelsea.

You need to think more globally. It's not just about what happens inside the city walls of Manchester, London or Birmingham. It's a global race. It's a bit like the lottery; you've got to be in it to win it. I absolutely care what happens outside of our borders. The big clubs (Villa as well), have fans all over the world, and I think that's beautiful. I'd hate it if my club just had working class local riff raff support it. Not nice snobbery is it.

Reply 8197

username917703

Original post by Eboracum

You're anti van Gaal because under him, success on the pitch is less likely than if you had a top quality manager. It's not because of share prices or any other such nonsense.

You need to think more globally. It's not just about what happens inside the city walls of Manchester, London or Birmingham. It's a global race. It's a bit like the lottery; you've got to be in it to win it. I absolutely care what happens outside of our borders. The big clubs (Villa as well), have fans all over the world, and I think that's beautiful. I'd hate it if my club just had working class local riff raff support it. Not nice snobbery is it.

I'm not ashamed/bothered by being working class, & someone shouldn't be ashamed of supporting a team in another country but what I said is correct. Most of them are clueless you can't use what they think as a yardstick for who's big and who isn't.

Go on your club's Facebook page and look at some of the weapons that comment on your articles and status updates. Then compare to someone phoning say, Talksport on a match day after their team has played.

Reply 8198

Eboracum

Original post by Wilfred Little

You're anti van Gaal because under him, success on the pitch is less likely than if you had a top quality manager. It's not because of share prices or any other such nonsense.

Yes, first and foremost I want the team doing well on the pitch, and if they are, then usually other things will follow. I accept that trophies are at the forefront of anything.

I suppose my core argument is that it depends on when you won those trophies. You have to keep topping it up to sustain that. If clubs won things in the 1980s or even 1990s but nothing since, probably 20 trophies are worth less than 7-8 trophies won between 2004 and 2014 in terms of adding to your big club status. Winning trophies in the present, will lead to economic success and a global fan base, key criteria for being a big club, which, of course, you can only achieve with success on the pitch.

Original post by Wilfred Little

There's absolutely nothing wrong with being working class. That wasn't the issue. The issue is, I don't like this idea that somebodies opinion is worth more than somebody else's based on certain criteria. I mean ok, if you know nothing about football, I accept that. But you'd get a lot of fans who follow the game every week and know a huge amount about the club. There voice is valid for me, especially in an era of globalisation. It's this argument about moral high ground which I'm against. If it's a lack of knowledge ok, but if it is location or citizenship criteria, no, somebody who has never been but knows a huge amount and cares about and loves the club is just a valid. I'd want us to be a global club. Your generalisation that most are clueless is difficult.

My other worry Wilf, is the elitism. For me, if 100M Manchester United fans are online calling for Moyes to go, that is worth more than if the Stretford End want him to stay. I'm sorry, it just is. You end up with the match going elite being out of touch with the general fanbase, that fanbase that make the club different from those that just have local fans.

Just because you live in Manchester and talk like Steve McDonald from Coronation Street doesn't mean your voice is more valid than in you live in Tokyo, Japan and have never been to Manchester IF (and it is a big if) you know the same amount about the club/football and you put a lot of support in (you might own the shirt, merchandise etc.)

Weapons? Interesting term. A lot of people write silly things on the internet. I take no notice of our Facebook page, I haven't even got it liked.

Reply 8199

username917703

Original post by Eboracum

Just because you live in Manchester and talk like Steve McDonald from Coronation Street doesn't mean your voice is more valid than in you live in Tokyo, Japan and have never been to Manchester IF (and it is a big if) you know the same amount about the club/football and you put a lot of support in (you might own the shirt, merchandise etc.)

Be realistic, generally, their voices are more valid. I don't think it's a coincidence the most clued up/knowledgeable MU fans on here, who know their onions and the unwritten rules that go with following a team, are Ian and StretfordEnd. sr90 as well, but I'm sure he's said he's a Manc, which just strengthens my point.

if 100M Manchester United fans are online calling for Moyes to go, that is worth more than if the Stretford End want him to stay. I'm sorry, it just is.

You think the opinions of lads who contribute nothing and watch on a laptop stream mean more than those who pay the manager's wages and travel to matches to support the team?